Amanda Shapiro: Okay, quick poll, olive or twist? Alex Beggs: Twist. Christina Chaey: Olives I think. Amanda Shapiro: How many? Christina Chaey: I like three. Amanda Shapiro: Three? Christina Chaey: Never two. Amanda Shapiro: How many olives is too many olives? Alex Beggs: One. Amanda Shapiro: More than three. I never knew this about you. Alex Beggs: I liked that the lemon peel, all the oils bring out the botanicals of the gin and it's kind of perfumey and fragrant. I like that flavor. Amanda Shapiro: Hey _Food People,_ it's Amanda, and welcome to the show. Uh, not so little known secret about the staff at BA is that we love martinis. At least most of us do. We love them like they're one of us. And we think everyone else, at least of appropriate age, should love them too. So today we're going to look at all of the different ways you can order or make a martini at home so you can figure out exactly the way you love to drink them. To do that we brought in three BA staffers and big martini enthusiasts. Senior Food Editor, Christina Chaey, Senior Staff Writer, Alex Beggs, and contributor, Amiel Stanek. I think at least two of us are sipping martinis while we record this, so if the conversation goes a little awry, you know why. Welcome to the show, everyone. Christina Chaey: Thank you. Amiel Stanek: Delightful to be here. Alex Beggs: I was trying to make a... that's my martini glass hitting the microphone. Not as festive as I thought it was going. Really more of a thump, but... Amanda Shapiro: All right, so I'm just going to start off with one question... is the martini the best cocktail of all time? All together: Yes. Amanda Shapiro: Okay. That's what I thought. Great. This is the easiest podcast ever, thanks for coming on. Let's answer the question why. Beggs, why's it the best cocktail of all time? Alex Beggs: I've been thinking so hard about this, trying to articulate it. And I don't know if it's just that I've watched a lot of _The Thin Man_ movies, and I really wish I was solving murders in the 1920s all the time and drinking martinis while doing so. But gin is such a subtle and delicious alcohol. It's not in your face. I wanted to call it refreshing, but it doesn't really actually feel like the right word for it. But to me, something magical happens on the third sip of your martini. Amanda Shapiro: Ooh, the third sip. Alex Beggs: First one burns a little bit, second one your taste buds are still getting used to the alcohol hitting them, which, you know, the human body is like, "What is this poison?" But third sip you're like, "Oh that's really good." Amanda Shapiro: I feel like third sip is when it hits your brain, the alcohol. Alex Beggs: Yeah, sure. Let me consult my doctor. Amanda Shapiro: Amiel, you're like nodding. Go ahead. Amiel Stanek: Yeah, I think to me like the thing about the martini is that there are so many cocktails that have a time and a place. There's like a specific time and setting that you want to drink a margarita in. There's like a specific kind of time, season, vibe, when you want to be having an old fashioned. But a martini is all day, every day. It's appropriate in all circumstances. It's the cocktail that's there for you when you've had a long day. It's the cocktail that's there for you when you're celebrating. It's the cocktail that you have when you're commiserating. There's no situation when a martini is not just what the doctor ordered. Amanda Shapiro: That's a strong statement. Literally any situation is a martini situation. Chaey you look dubious. Christina Chaey: Yeah. I don't know that I agree. I don't think that it's an any time, all the time drink for me. I actually do feel like what I love about martinis is that there's absolutely no other thing I could possibly imagine drinking in really specific scenarios. I like that martinis are very discreet. Amanda Shapiro: What? They literally have their own glass. Everyone knows when you're drinking a martini. Christina Chaey: They look like water. And I guess I'm thinking about steak houses and a sort of oyster or shrimp cocktail vibe in particular. Like those are really quintessential... Alex Beggs: It's celebratory. Christina Chaey: ...martini or nothing moments for me. Amanda Shapiro: There are situations that I think do kind of scream martini. So just to back up for a second, the three of you are on this podcast for a reason. It wasn't just an arbitrary selection of three staffers to talk about martinis. You all actually had a concept for a podcast called _Three Martini Lunch_. Christina Chaey: Yeah. We've been trying to do this for like three years. Alex Beggs: Yeah, and every episode would be this. Christina Chaey: Yeah. Amiel Stanek: And we're upset about this episode because this isn't that. Alex Beggs: This isn't even lunchtime. Amanda Shapiro: I can just go away right now and leave you guys to handle it. Amiel Stanek: Well, if I had known that I would have batched more martinis, Amanda. Amanda Shapiro: Okay. So, but my point is that you have strong affinity for the martini that goes back just generations or at least years of your time at BA. So let's take that expertise and put it to good use. Let's say you're at home, and you want to make a martini instead of getting one at the bar? What is your preferred home method? Alex Beggs: Most of the time I'm having a martini at home. In January, specifically, I started doing a meal prep martini. Everyone else is doing dry January. I knew I didn't have that in me. Amanda Shapiro: You went the far other direction. Alex Beggs: It was dreary. I was barely leaving the house. So what I would do on Sunday after I chopped all my broccoli, uh, was make a quart of martinis and freeze them. And I got recipe help from Carlie Steiner who teaches cocktail classes called Seco Cocktails. She's amazing. Basically, you just follow the ratio. So I take my little liquid measure, do a cup of gin, do a half cup of vermouth or less depending on the mood, and then fill the rest of the quart container with water because you need to account for that, shaking it with ice. And then two dashes of orange bitters. If I'm being a little fancy, I shake that up, put it in the freezer, and I also keep my cocktail glasses in the freezer because, uh, there are only two people in the house. We can prioritize the room in the freezer for these type of things. About five or six or the occasionally 6:30, I would pour this ice cold martini and it was heaven. And we have a recipe on _Bon Appétit_ for a make ahead martini where you can learn this important skill yourself. Amanda Shapiro: We'll say we also have a recipe for a make and drink now martini on BA, if you are feeling impatient. It's a classic recipe with gin, vermouth, and lemon, and the kicker is you have to rapidly stir the drink with ice 50 times before serving. It sounds like a lot, but it allows all of the alcohols and the ice to melt and marry and get to that perfect very cold, very, very, very cold temperature, before you hit it with the lemon peel. We will link to that recipe as well in the show notes. Alex Beggs: We need to hear Amiel's. Amanda Shapiro: Okay. Amiel Stanek: Well, we make a lot of martinis in this household, but I wouldn't say that it's the same every time. Like first things first, I go over to the liquor cabinet, hutch with all of our glassware. I pick what kind of glassware we're going to use, and that's going to depend a lot on what the vibe is. If they're like four people we're making martinis for, then I might opt for the slightly sturdier parfait glasses, but they like work fine. Christina Chaey: They're about the same size, no? Amiel Stanek: No, yeah, exactly. I mean, because we just don't have parfait glasses in our culinary vernacular anymore, those have just become martini glasses. Amanda Shapiro: So do you own actual martini glasses? Amiel Stanek: I don't actually own a single real, proper martini glass. Amanda Shapiro: Me neither. See, I really have a problem with those because sometimes I take the first sip. You know, it's a clear drink, so you don't always have a good sense of where the top is, and like it falls down my chin. Amiel Stanek: A little dribble. Amanda Shapiro: Yeah. Alex Beggs: No, you look like a cat. Amiel Stanek: I dumped three ounces of gin into a mixing glass and an ounce of vermouth. Amanda Shapiro: Three to one, okay. Amiel Stanek: Yeah, stir in like a big mixing flask. I like one, olive, ideally, with a bowl of olives on the side for snacking. Amanda Shapiro: Ooh. Okay. This is great. So let's take some of this home bar expertise and apply it to when you're ordering a drink out. And there's a whole glossary of terms. It took me a very long time to even start to understand it. And frankly, I still forget. So I'm going to do a little quiz. You guys are going to answer on all of the different ways that you could order a martini. And I will, uh, I have the cheat sheet, so I'll weigh in and say if you're right or wrong. Okay. I'm just going to define the traditional martini and feel free to disagree. But the traditional martini, as I understand it, is gin and dry vermouth served cold with a green olive or lemon garnish. Now we get into the variations. Okay, wet? Christina Chaey: More vermouth. Alex Beggs: I have never heard someone order a wet martini. Amiel Stanek: Oh, I've ordered wet martinis. Amanda Shapiro: So, okay. Let me just get this straight. Wet is only in relation to dry? It just means more vermouth than a dry martini? Amiel Stanek: Correct. Amanda Shapiro: Okay, dirty? Christina Chaey: Olive juice. Amiel Stanek: With olive brine. Amanda Shapiro: Right, contains dashes of olive brine. Straight up or up? Christina Chaey: No ice. Amiel Stanek: Yeah, no ice. Just up in a martini glass. Amanda Shapiro: Gibson? Alex Beggs: What I'm having tonight. Christina Chaey: Oh. Amiel Stanek: With a pickled onion. Alex Beggs: Is it a Pearl onion? Amiel Stanek: Yeah, it's gotta be. Christina Chaey: I love a pearl onion. Amanda Shapiro: It's a pickled onion, but they have to be like pickled in the jar. Not just like a fresh... Christina Chaey: Oh yes, yes, no gross. Gross. Amanda Shapiro: Right. Amiel Stanek: Not just a slice... Alex Beggs: It's just a raw onion. Amanda Shapiro: All right. 50/50 martini. Amiel Stanek: Half gin, half vermouth. Amanda Shapiro: Right. Amiel Stanek: Which is what I'm drinking right now. Amanda Shapiro: One to one ratio of gin to dry vermouth. Considered to be the original iteration of the cocktail by some. Perfect martini? Christina Chaey: Oh.... Amanda Shapiro: Stumper. Amiel Stanek: Oh, half dry vermouth, half sweet vermouth? Amanda Shapiro: Yes. Christina Chaey: Nice. Amanda Shapiro: Okay. So technically a perfect martini is similar to a 50/ 50 martini in that the gin to vermouth ratio is still one to one. You with me? Okay, but a perfect martini contains two different kinds of vermouth, half sweet and half dry. So the drink is actually 25% sweet vermouth, 25% dry vermouth, and 50% booze. Christina Chaey: Oh, I did have one of those recently. It was very good. Alex Beggs: That sounds a nice. Amiel Stanek: Bad girls club. Amanda Shapiro: Okay. Wait, I'm not done kangaroo martini? Alex Beggs: You put it in your pocket and go outside. Amanda Shapiro: It's replacing gin with vodka and then shaken with ice, strained into a chilled glass with a lemon peel garnish. Amiel Stanek: That's just a vodka martini. Amanda Shapiro: Okay. Burnt martini? Ooh, stumper. Any Alex Beggs: guesses? Amiel Stanek: My guess would be that you express the lemon peel over top of the martini, but you use like a match. You do like the flamed lemon peel thing. Alex Beggs: Your mouth is full of over proofed gin, and you blow that at the same time. Create a little flame thrower. Christina Chaey: The martini comes set on fire. Amanda Shapiro: I'm sure all of those things exist, but they're not a burnt martini. A burnt martini is, has a splash of smoky single malt whiskey. All together: Oh. Amanda Shapiro: Gross. In my opinion. Last one, vesper martini? Amiel Stanek: Vesper martini has a split base of gin and vodka and in place of the vermouth, Lillet, and it's shaken, question mark? No, it's still stirred. Alex Beggs: Shaken, not stirred. Christina Chaey: Right, right, Bond style. Amanda Shapiro: This is the iconic James Bond invention. First appearing in _Casino Royale_, consisting of gin, vodka, and Lillet Blanc, which is aperitif. Christina Chaey: Wait... Amanda Shapiro: Garnished with a twist of lemon peel. Christina Chaey: Dude, that sounds kind of good to me. Amiel Stanek: It is good. It's a good cocktail and it- Amanda Shapiro: Really? Vodka and gin? Alex Beggs: No. Christina Chaey: Amiel, do you shake it or do you stir it? Amiel Stanek: I would stir that cocktail. Christina Chaey: Me too. Amiel Stanek: Um, because I was always told that if it's all booze, you stir. If there's, if you're introducing something that's not booze, you shake. Christina Chaey: Yes. Amiel Stanek: So like a margarita is shaken because there's lime juice in it. Whereas a cocktail like a Manhattan or a martini, which is all booze is always stirred. But the thing is, the vodka and gin does a special thing. I mean, I started doing this occasionally during the pandemic when I would run out of gin, but I still had some vodka hanging around and I'd be like, "Okay, we'll just use half gin, half vodka. And then the appropriate amount of vermouth." And the thing that's really cool about it is I actually think that you taste, much in the same way that when you add a little bit of water to whiskey, you taste it a little bit more. Amanda Shapiro: Hm. Alex Beggs: Because vodka is so flavorless, so it kind of takes on the flavor of the gin? Amanda Shapiro: That's true, I always think a vodka martini is like too flavorless and sometimes a gin is too much and it's like, maybe it's a nice marriage. Alex Beggs: Wow. You're selling it. Amanda Shapiro: I'm converting. All right. We're going to take a quick break here, and when we get back we will talk about a phenomenon that's been sweeping the martini nation. That is the espresso martini. Okay, everyone. I have an announcement to make, and that announcement is that the espresso martini is back. But why? Why was the espresso martini ever gone? To answer some of these questions, we have dear friend of the pod and trend expert, Andrea Hernandez, who wrote about espresso martinis in her newsletter, Snaxshots. Andrea, we brought you in here today to get to the bottom of this phenomenon. So first I have to ask, when was the last espresso martini that you had? Andrea Hernandez: So I guess it was a month ago that I was in New York and I had a Turkish espresso martini at Short Stories. And I'm not going to lie, consider espresso martinis my, my arch nemesis, but this one wasn't that bad. It was actually really good. Amanda Shapiro: So I love the Time story about the trend, which came out back in June, talks about the origins and they attribute it to a bartender who worked at a London bar actually in the eighties, of course. And apparently this young model walks in and asks for a drink that will wake me up. Mess me up, although she didn't say mess, she said a word that we can't say on the air. What do you think about this origin story? Have you heard anything similar or different? Andrea Hernandez: I had heard it similarly. Amanda Shapiro: But do you think the espresso martini that people are making now is different from the one they were making in the eighties? Like, does that have anything to do with why this drink is making a comeback? Andrea Hernandez: It does feel a lot more globalized. Like imagine having a Turkish espresso martini, like that sounds good. I think there's always a 30 year old reset and I see this a lot with trends where it's that perfect amount of nostalgia that allows for something to come back in a more, I don't know how the word, but in a way that it's not as cringe. So I think that it was the perfect moment. I hope that we don't like beat a dead horse, because we tend to do that. We are at this point where we were very into over consuming everything. And I think even this grocer store they launched their own espresso martini bottle. They partnered with a coffee shop. Amanda Shapiro: Oh my God, I was just going to ask you, when is the first canned espresso martini going to be out? Andrea Hernandez: Oh, that already happened. Like, I even found it last year. That's one of the reasons why I tweeted out. I said, "Oh, so we're going to have espresso martini be the drink of 2021. Whether we like it or not." Amanda Shapiro: Andrea, you are a prophet! Andrea Hernandez: We cannot stop over consuming things and we're going to end up killing this like we've killed stuff, like activity charcoal. We killed stuff like matcha. Like we're just going to kill everything until we're so inundated with it that we're just going to be so disgusted by it. I a hundred percent see this happening. Amanda Shapiro: Okay. I want to ask you about that, but I'm looking at this paparazzi photo on GQ's Instagram of Larry David and Timothée Chalamet sipping on espresso martinis. Have you seen this? Andrea Hernandez: Yeah, people tagged me on that. Amanda Shapiro: We're going to link to this photo. We have to link to this photo in the show notes. Andrea Hernandez: It's hilarious. Amanda Shapiro: He's wearing these like nineties style, like baggy down to his knees shorts with red flames coming up them, and you can see his green boxers underneath. It is like giving me flashbacks to like every boy I went to school with in sixth grade. And then you have Larry David next to him. It is like multi-generational, you've got the two espresso martini. Andrea Hernandez: It's so funny to see it all come back and I, a hundred percent guarantee it was not Larry David ordering the espresso martini. It was a hundred percent Timothée. Amanda Shapiro: He was like, "Hey, Larry, I really got you. You gotta try this drink. Let me tell you about that, have you heard of it? It's called the espresso martini." Um, okay. So how long do you think this trend is going to stick around? Andrea Hernandez: It's so funny cause I think one of the reasons why this was also probably so popular, is I think about it... we've been stuck indoors all year. And everybody now wants to go out, wants to keep the momentum going. People are going back to clubs, people are going back to late night dining and stuff. And so I think that it'll stem after this novelty feeling wears off. If that makes sense. Amanda Shapiro: Yeah, I mean, I kind of agree. I mean, it's fine. I probably would enjoy an espresso martini, people in the office know this, not because I do this at work, but I have written about my love for tequila in coffee. At an appropriate hour of the day, of course. But I think there's something about espresso and alcohol together that can work. It just has to be a particular time. Like you said, a lull. Andrea Hernandez: Peak espresso martini will be when a celebrity comes out with an espresso martini. Amanda Shapiro: Oh God. I'm sure. Timothée and Larry David are already in the works on that. Andrea Hernandez: You heard it here first. Amanda Shapiro: Yeah, Andrea prophet. Well, thank you so much for joining me to chat about this. I would love to talk to you all day about espresso, martinis and other... I want to know every other trend on the horizon, but we'll have to have you back again soon. Andrea Hernandez: Thank you so much for having me. This was fun. Amanda Shapiro: All right. Y'all so where do we stand on this drink that's having a real surprising comeback? Espresso martinis, yes, no, maybe? Alex Beggs: No thanks. Amiel Stanek: Never heard of her. Christina Chaey: I say yes. Amanda Shapiro: There we go. Christina Chaey: I did have one of these recently at a bachelorette, which I would say is one of, if not, maybe the only appropriate place for that to come out. Amanda Shapiro: It's not in any time of day cocktail. Christina Chaey: It's not a meal cocktail. You're not drinking that with your lunch or your dinner. You're not drinking that with a pre-dinner snack. Alex Beggs: Dessert. Christina Chaey: And you're not really, I mean, maybe you're drinking it with dessert, but... Amiel Stanek: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Amanda Shapiro: It's dessert before the club. Amiel Stanek: Is it a breakfast cocktail? Amanda Shapiro: Is it at a brunch cocktail? All great question. Let's move on and talk about where we love to order martinis when we go out? I know where I like to go. Do you have a perfect spot? Alex Beggs: Steak House. Amiel Stanek: Yeah, that's the only situation in which I will drink martinis throughout dinner. When I know that the bartender can make a good martini and that I don't want to pay for the wine that they have. Which has like a steakhouse, generally. Amanda Shapiro: Anyone have like iconic spots to martini order at? Christina Chaey: I think drink the most martinis in a sitting at any given time at Long Island Bar. Amanda Shapiro: So good, which is like almost a dive bar, but with really good martinis. Christina Chaey: But they're so good. Amanda Shapiro: They're so good. I agree. Amiel Stanek: I had a really good experience. This is one of the last times I was in the city before the pandemic, when I was like train commuting to New York City every other week. And I sat down at the bar at Balthazar, I ordered steak tartare, french fries, a gin martini. I was like in a, in a hurry. And I said, "Once I finished this martini, I'm going to have another one, so you can just do it again." Alex Beggs: Start making it now. Amiel Stanek: And it was amazing. I was eating my steak tartare, my fries. I finished the martini. I put the glass down. They like took it away and replaced it with another martini. Christina Chaey: Incredible. Amanda Shapiro: Wait I need to add another lightning round question, which is, sidecar? Alex Beggs: Yes, please. Christina Chaey: What is it? Or do we want it? Amanda Shapiro: Define it though. Yes, but also define it. Christina Chaey: You know, it's like the little mini overflow that you might get served with your drink on the side, in a teeny tiny little glass. Amanda Shapiro: So like when they purposely make a little bit too much and bring it to you in a tiny glass next to your, next to your main cocktail. It's your sidekick cocktail. Christina Chaey: Yes. Very, very pleasantly welcome. Amanda Shapiro: Beggs, favorite time to have a martini? Set the scene. Alex Beggs: Oh my God. I'm at the bar at Keens. There's a portrait of naked lady in directly in my eyesight. Um, a very experienced bartender has put the martini in front of me and it slashed over a little bit. There's a few ice shards floating in there and some people think that's not good, I think that's great. Amanda Shapiro: I love it. It just means it's extra cold. Alex Beggs: And if fries are on the way, we're in business. Amanda Shapiro: That sounds so divine. Before we wrap up, Beggs, I know you have a martini memory that you wanted to share. Please take us home. Alex Beggs: A memorable martini for me was, so during the pandemic, my partner and I basically moved to Michigan and we were staying with his parents in Detroit. And every, every night at five o'clock, my father-in-law who we call, Big Bill, he died this July. He used to make them for us. And even though his body was riddled with cancer, he would get up, shuffle over from his recliner, and shake them for us. And he made them so cold that he would have to hold the shaker with a kitchen towel. So he'd pour them for us, and my mother-in-law Kathy and I would go with like bagged camp chairs out on the front lawn at five o'clock. So like the whole neighborhoods going by and we would have our martinis out in the yard on these cheap chairs. And I think we became neighborhood legends. But that was the highlight for me. Amanda Shapiro: Wow, every night. Alex Beggs: I'm sure we skipped a few, but I can't remember those ones. Amanda Shapiro: What a hero. Alex Beggs: Yeah. I don't know. Made me realize that I should enjoy all the martinis I'm having now. Amanda Shapiro: Yeah. Drink them for him. Amiel Stanek: Hell yeah. That's a beautiful takeaway. Amanda Shapiro: I love that. Well, I think we could really go on all day about our love for this cocktail, but maybe we should reserve that for the _Three Martini Lunch_ podcast, which may or may not exist in the future. Sponsors, please call me. For now, thank you all. Thank you to the three of you for nerding out on martinis with me and to our listeners for sticking with us. We'll all have to enjoy one soon together. Amiel Stanek: Thank you! Alex Beggs: Thanks for having me. Amanda Shapiro: Thank you to our guests Christina Chaey, Amiel Stanek, Alex Beggs and Andrea Hernandez for all the laughs and to martini insights. We'll link to the meal prep martini recipe in the show notes and that pick of Timothée and Larry David. You should probably see it. While you're on your phone, give our guests a follow. On Instagram Chaey is @seechaey, that's C H A E Y, Amiel is @b_goutish, and Andrea Hernandez is @theandreahernandez. Go read all of her insights at snaxshot.com too. That's snack with an X. And you can read all of Beggs' writing along with Chaey and Amiel's recipes and stories on bonappétit.com. If you love the show, be sure to rate, review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. It helps keep us _Food People_ employed. And you can follow Bon Appétit on Instagram @bonappétitmag and on Twitter @bonappétit. _Food People_ is produced by Bon Appétit in partnership with Pod People. Vishnu Vallabhaneni is our senior producer, Ginny Bloom is our showrunner, Madison Lusby is our production manager, and Morgane Fouse and Jessica Jones are our associate producers. This episode was engineered by Trae Budde and the music is by DJ Nu-Mark. June Kim and I provide editorial direction for the series. Special thanks to Matt Sav, Nico Steele, and Julie Shen. I'm your host, Amanda Shapiro. And I'll see you next week.