Katey Rich: Hello, and welcome to _Little Gold Men_ the award season podcast from _Vanity Fair_. 

Intro: "It's such an honor to present this next award." "And here are the nominees." "And the Oscar goes to..." "And the Oscar goes to..." "And I can't deny the fact that you like me. Right now, you like me." "I'm the king of the world!" "There's a mistake, _Moonlight_, you guys won best picture."

Katey Rich: Hi, I am Katey Rich and I'm here for today's interview episode with Rebecca Ford. 

Rebecca Ford: Hello. 

Katey Rich: Rebecca, you have what I think is a coup because the Emmy nominations are just a week old and, uh, you're talking to Quinta Brunson, who was, I think undeniably one of the stars of this year's nominations as the creator and star of _Abbott Elementary._ Um, how thrilled was she when you got on the phone with her? 

Rebecca Ford: Uh, she seemed really thrilled. She, she was on the lot, you know, working on the second season, they start shooting this week actually. And she admitted that she did not watch the nominations because she just was so stressed out. And I, I totally see that because, you know, that was one of the narratives this season was like, this show is gonna break through as a broadcast comedy. And if it hadn't, I, I can't even imagine that that pressure. But luckily it is a definitely a success story of this season with seven nominations. You know, three for Quinta herself, a bunch of the actors got nominated. Uh, so yes, it was, it was definitely really fun to talk to her just a couple days after the nominations were announced.

Katey Rich: Yeah. And have you, as you've written about before, you know, she's young, she got her start doing internet comedy, but she really wanted to make a broadcast wide family appealing show, which is not the obvious route for anybody who's like a rising young talent in the industry. So like you said, like the success of _Abbott Elementary _really feels like there's a lot riding on it and it could raise a lot of boats along with it. 

Rebecca Ford: Yeah. It definitely feels that way, and the credit is due to her for sort of bringing a fresh take to a format we've seen before. You know, the documentary comedy we've seen, but with the cast she's brought together and the storyline she's exploring, uh, I think it does really feel fresh, which I think is why a lot of people have tuned in and, and given it this attention.

Katey Rich: So, what else did you guys talk about? 

Rebecca Ford: Well, I, I was curious how that success is affecting her writing, um, season two. You know, because as she said, they wrote season one sort of in a vacuum, you know, and now a lot of people have opinions on the show. And, and so I was curious about that, which she talks about and also about how it's affected her personally. Like she's just sort of completely recognizable to so many people now, and she admitted that, uh, you know, on the lot they shoot on the Warner Brothers lot, that she now walks around, uh, with an iron mask- Iron Man mask on because you know, when there's tours and stuff, she can't, she can't like get anywhere, uh, in peace. So she sometimes uses this mask when she wants to just like walk and think, and kind of be by herself, which I thought was a pretty significant change.

Katey Rich: Like COVID mask or like full face- 

Rebecca Ford: No like a big face- it's like a Halloween costume mask. So, uh, that's she admitted, that's pretty, that's a pretty significant change for her, but you know.

Katey Rich: Oh yeah. I would imagine that changed your day to day life. 

Rebecca Ford: I told her she's gonna have to get a new mask now, because now we're outing her. 

Katey Rich: I know she's gonna be- if you see the Hulk walking around Warner Brothers lot, you'll know. 

Rebecca Ford: Yeah. 

Katey Rich: Uh, well let's hear your conversation with Quinta Brunson.

Rebecca Ford: I'm so excited to be joined by _Abbott Elementary_ creator and star Quinta Brunson today who is fresh off the news of her show's seven Emmy nominations. Thanks for joining me. 

Quinta Brunson: Thank you for having me and yeah, so cool. 

Rebecca Ford: Well, tell, so sort of set the scene for me. What was that like? How did you take in, in the nominations? Were you tuned in for it? 

Quinta Brunson: I wasn't, I wasn't watching. I was doing a string of interviews for something. And, um, I didn't really pay attention too much to it. I think I didn't wanna be anxious about the announcements. So my phone just started going off and I knew that something good had happened. Uh, and so when I was able to look at my phone, I saw that not only the show was nominated, but the, the rest of the nominations and I was so shocked at the rest of the nominations. I'm so happy for my cast. I'm over the moon that this show is nominated because I felt we did really, really good work this year. And it felt like recognition that we didn't necessarily need, but recognition that I really felt the people who worked on this show deserved. I felt so many people really put their all into it. And the show nomination makes it feel like we can celebrate every single person who worked on the show, you know. 

Rebecca Ford: I felt like the comedy series nomination was a lock, but I was so excited to see a lot of your cast get their individual acting nominations because, uh, Janelle James, Sheryl Lee Ralph, Tyler James Williams, and you all received acting noms. Um, it was- what was it like getting in touch with them after those had been announced? 

Quinta Brunson: Oh, oh my goodness. That's where the emotional parts came. I don't, I don't know why I just was not that concerned about me as in it could have, if I was nominated that was great, and if I wasn't, that I, I was, I would've been fine. For me the worry was really, I just felt the show and I know everyone's saying they were, they felt like it was a lock, but I don't know, you never know. You know? 

Rebecca Ford: You never know. 

Quinta Brunson: You never know and there are so many shows on TV. So many shows. And you just never know. So I'm texting with Tyler while it's happening, and he's saying congratulations to me. And he's like, oh my God, Sheryl and Janelle got it too. And we're just raving about that. He didn't even know that he had been nominated. And I texted him like Tyler, Tyler, Tyler you're Emmy nominated. He just like, what? Just totally was not predicting that. And he was over the moon. You know, Tyler's done such good work for years and asks for nothing in return. It's not like he even cares that much. He cared about Sheryl and Janelle and me and the show, of course. He wasn't necessarily, like, I hope I'm nominated. He just didn't think that would happen. Um, nor was he like striving for that and for him to get nominated, it's just such a good representation of someone who has done comedy so well for so long. It's so cool that he did this as a child and is still doing it now and still doing incredible work. I think it proves that comedy takes an innate skill. And him being able to do it so well as a, a young person and then grow up into who he is now and still execute, it's like, I don't know it like validates what we do a little bit. And then with Sheryl, oh my God, I was just so emotional. I- Sheryl reminded me of this, but I grabbed her hand at the beginning of the first season and told her like, you know, Sheryl, we're gonna give you Emmy worthy material. I felt like Sheryl's an incredible actress, amazing actress, truly a joy to watch the art of acting through her. And while seeing it on set, I was like, I'm gonna write you material that makes you impossible to ignore. Um, and you know, this is her first one. She's been working for 50 years and just a big deal. Just a big deal for her. And Janelle just outright deserved it. I dunno if that's cocky to say, but I don't feel anyone who gave a better comedic performance on TV than that woman. And it's one thing to people- it's, oh it's her first time, so maybe she won't get it. Other actresses maybe deserve it more. No, she did incredible work and deserves to be recognized for it. And I mean, I feel that way about my entire cast. I felt Lisa Ann Walter did incredible work and, and so good that she makes it look easy. Same thing with Chris Perfetti with Jacob. I mean, he's so good, he makes it look easy. You know, I'm just over the moon that so much of our cast was nominated and that the show was so we can all celebrate together. 

Rebecca Ford: There's that video of Sheryl finding out about her nominations that's on Twitter now and I've watched it like a million times, because it's just so sweet. And just to see that, yeah, the genuine joy of that recognition is so, uh, authentic in that snippet. So I am curious, I think this cast as you're saying, the chemistry between them is just so strong and really, I think is one of the reasons the show works so well. And I'm curious when you were putting together this ensemble, you know, was there someone that was cast first and then you considered who would play opposite them? Like how- what was the order for bringing this group together? Assembling them, if you will. 

Quinta Brunson: So Tyler was the first person cast because I had him in mind for the character Gregory. When I was writing that character, Tyler was just coming to mind. I had worked with him before and I just thought he'd really be able to kill this, every aspect of it. So he was cast first. I wanted people who felt like real people, because I think that's what does best in mockumentary and Lisa Ann Walter, she just felt like this real, real teacher who was in my life. Chris felt like a brand new version of what could have been a very easily stereotypical performance, and he brought life to it. And especially in the, the pilot stage. You know, there wasn't much for Jacob in that pilot, and I knew that, but I, there was six characters, so, you know, I kind of gave more to the women and you know, more to Gregory, but he just breathed such life into the character and brought a new archetype to this kind of guy. And then Janelle, I would say the Ava character was the hardest to nail down because I think people can read her lines and create something very unlikable. It might not be trying to, but that's how it comes off. That was the importance of Janelle. She auditioned and I was like, this is it. I'm I'm watching her. I can't stop watching her. I love her. I love to hate her. She gets all of it. And she was the one that was a little bit of a, a, a little bit teeny bit of a pushback with the, the network of like, she's unknown. Like maybe this can go to like a bigger person. And I was like, no, it's not about- actually I think any bigger person would make it more unlikeable, you know? And Sheryl was the last cast member added and I thought of Sheryl from the beginning, but I didn't think we'd be able to get Sheryl. She's always working. She was on a show. She just so happened to be available. And that was the first part of when Sheryl and I- Sheryl realized that things would be different here because Sheryl's offer only. But I called her and I said, I, I have to hear you read. I'm sorry. Like I love you, wanna do this show with you, but I cannot not have you read. And if you don't want to, that's fine, we'll move on. But she was like, actually, you know what? I will. And boom, perfect. But it is with my mockumentary, you know, you gotta see people read. Offer only is really hard. And I think, I don't know, offer only is a weird thing anyway, but I- the other thing I was looking for were, were people that looked like real people, too. I didn't want this like overly beautiful cast. Although don't get me wrong, I find every person in my cast to be super attractive, but I, I didn't want, uh, the typical network glossy look. I wanted them to feel and look like real people.

Rebecca Ford: When you look back on this first season, is there a storyline that you're especially proud of? You know, all these months later that you kind of look at with a little more pride? 

Quinta Brunson: Yeah, absolutely. I'm especially proud of episode, um, 108, which is "Work Family" because we do a lot in the episode and one of my favorite things we got to do was introduce that Jacob's character was gay without making it a com- a coming out story. That was really important to me. I, there are so many queer people in my life and, you know, they're just in my life. I've grown up- I think that's a true sign of, of change. You know, as more people my age come into these spaces. I don't, I don't need these characters to do coming out stories. They are queer. They've been queer since years ago. They're just here. And I think that that was really important for me to do. Uh, it was interesting watching that reaction from the audience because it was absolutely what I, what I kind of intended. I knew that they would be like, wait, what? Like what, no one told us. And it's like, yeah, because we don't like have to. Cause- because, you know, gay people are just gay. We don't really have to tell you that they're gay, they just are. But you know, that was, that was a storyline we wanted. And that episode is not about that. It's really about Janine realizing she's outgrowing a relationship. Gregory learning his place in the school. Um, so I was really proud of that entire story and proud of how we really were in a groove when we were writing that one. 

Rebecca Ford: And you, you, you know, you mentioned taking in people's reactions to the show, and I know you're, you're pretty active on social media and you've tweeted about people calling the show undramatic or, or other things that have, have happened, but I'm curious how you, how you absorb reactions to the show? Are there ever moments where you have to like, sort of step away from it or do you enjoy that part of the process? 

Quinta Brunson: I don't absorb them as much. I think in the first season it was interesting to see, right? Like it's cool to see people love the show that much on social media, but the first season of _Abbott _was so special to me because we got to create it in a total vacuum. You know, the, the show wasn't airing while we were writing it. It was fully written, fully shot, by the time it started airing. So there was kind of this peace in- we did what we could do, and nothing is gonna change. And, um, I'm gonna have to believe that everything I planned will work. And there was things in the beginning, like I was like, you know, Ava's gonna grow on people. And I remember in the pilot stage, there was like talks with the network and studio, like, is it too, is she too much? I'm like, trust me, trust me. And I trust me. And I turned out to be right, because I said, by episode four, she's gonna be the, you know, people are, aren't gonna wanna not have her in an episode. And I feel that everything I predicted with the show was right, and that gives me a lot of strength as a creator, a lot of trust in myself. And so that's what was interesting about seeing the reactions. But it's important I think for a creator, for most creators, to not let audience notes kind of change what you're doing. It's just about trusting your own vision and knowing how to write stories. One of my favorite things in the world is watching old TV shows and, and, um, you know, like old, black and whites. And it's like, I've seen so much at this point in my life. I've seen dinosaurs, I've seen Marvel, you know, crazy special effects, but I can still watch an old, black and white movie and be like, wow, I didn't see that coming. Oh my goodness. Whoa. And it's like, because that's just a good story. And um, that's a writer trusting what they're writing and knowing how to tell a compelling story and that's what we have to keep doing no matter what. 

Rebecca Ford: So where are you in the process of season two right now? And how does it feel different now that you're not in the vacuum, I guess? 

Quinta Brunson: I know. Well, one good thing is the show being so, so quote unquote successful is it really gave me, my producers, the writer's room, the studio network, the ability to believe in ourselves even harder. It was like, okay, first season did exactly what it was supposed to do. So we were able to come in, not worried about, you know, I don't know. It was easy to get right back into the groove and write what we wanna write. So, so we begin filming next week. But in the writer's room so far, we have seven episodes written. The whole season is outlined and we have the next four or five episodes in either story outline or first script stage. So we're very far ahead, and my wonderful co-producer Justin Halpern created a fantastic schedule to help me be able to see most of the episodes before I, I start filming. So I've, I've been here in the writer's room every day, unless I have to go do press or something, but I'm actually sad I have to leave the writer's room next week. It's so bittersweet. Of course, I'm excited to go join the cast, but I really love being in the writer's room. I love telling these stories. One thing that's changed is, you know, last year we had 13 episodes, and this year we're gonna get to have a lot more fun. You know, we we've shown people what we can do in the first season. To me now, it feels like we can become more of a situational comedy. I, we wore that in the first season, but I had a, we had a lot of lifting to do as far as making people fall in love with these characters in this school. Now everybody loves 'em. Now we can have some good old fashioned friends type fun, you know? 

Rebecca Ford: I know I'm so excited for it. I didn't realize you were, by the time this airs you'll be shooting already. So what has been the biggest change to your own life in the past year or so? 

Quinta Brunson: One big change is, uh, I think there are, I really wanna just focus on _Abbott_, but if there's always the pressure to do other things. Big things. Things that, you know, any, any creator would like, that's my dream. But I wanna focus on continuing to make this a good show, and I feel like if my focus is removed from the show I just, I look at it as we're building an engine. You know, like I want to come with another heavy hitting season of television and then another. And then maybe I can like, you know, pull away a little bit, but I wanna set this up so that everybody working on it can come back to work here because it's a fun place to work, or we have good shooting hours. We have good working hours. And I, I love, you know, I really appreciate all these people. I hope they can continue to work on this show for a very long time. So that's changed. There's a lot coming at me in, in a lot of me just wanting to stay focused on this. Um, one of my writers brought me this mask so I can walk around the Warner Brothers lot because I can't really walk around the, the Warner Brothers lot anymore. 

Rebecca Ford: For those listening, it's a, is it Iron Man mask? It's an Iron Man mask. 

Quinta Brunson: Yeah, it's an Iron Man mask he brought me to wear while I walk around the lot. Um, because I can't really walk around a lot like that anymore, and that sucks. First season, I loved a lot. You know, I just love lots. I love, I love it. And we are in the thick of it. I used to love to just take a walk around. Drive the cart around, just go to the back lot. It helps me think, helps me get inspired and I have lost that ability this year. Uh, so that's a big change that is an interesting one. You know, where I'm like, damn, I really can't. I could walk around, but it's just not that easy to just walk around and think anymore. I have to be willing to stop and talk to people. And you know, the tour cars they drive by and that's what people come into LA for. To come to see somebody from a TV show they watch. 

Rebecca Ford: It's true. Lots are so- anytime I get to go to a lot, I'm so excited, because you can just feel the like movie magic on a lot. I don't know what it is, but it's real. 

Quinta Brunson: You can just feel it it's real. It's so corny. Did you watch, uh, _The Offer?_ 

Rebecca Ford: I didn't see it. 

Quinta Brunson: _The Offer_ on Paramount Plus, you know, it's all about making _The Godfather, _but, and I don't know, people probably have their opinions on whether or not it's a good or bad show, but I found it extremely entertaining and I so much loved watching them on the lot. And like watching them walk around the Paramount lot and making the movies. Oh God, I was in heaven. I was like, oh, I'm such a nerd for this right now, so fun.

Rebecca Ford: Um, we're almost out of time, but you know, the Emmys are now two months away. So I'm curious, what are you excited for that night? Are there any other people from other shows that you're rooting for in, in other categories or what are you looking forward to?

Quinta Brunson: I'm rooting for a bunch of people in my category, which is dumb. I mean, I really think Jean Smart is amazing. I'd be honored to lose to her. That's how I feel, seriously. It's like, yeah, I don't mind that. It's funny, Tyler and I both were like, dude, we're gonna lose to Jean Smart and Henry Winkler. Like this is the biggest night of our careers. But, um, no, seriously, I love Jean. Issa, I'm so, so happy Issa is getting to get recognized for the last season of _Insecure_ because she just did great work and I'm just I'm rooting for her. I, I I'm always rooting for Issa. Like it never fails. Even, even when I'm like up against her, I don't care if she wins. It'll feel like I won too. So that's really cool. Um, I'm rooting for Brett Goldstein. Love Brett in _Ted Lasso _he's just like good people, the homie, you know, him winning is always a good thing. Um, Donald, would love to see Donald win for_ Atlanta_. The entire cast of, uh, _Yellow Jackets_. Are they in there? Right? 

Rebecca Ford: Yes, they are.

Quinta Brunson: They're like a whole category, right? 

Rebecca Ford: The show and several of the actors, yeah. 

Quinta Brunson: Yeah. I love _What We Do in the Shadow_- I'm so happy to see _What We Do in the Shadows_ is nominated. I love that show. And I don't know, that was another one where I was like, it might, they might not. Right. You know, I don't know. You never know how things are gonna swing, but I absolutely adore that show and I'm so happy that it's nominated. What else? 

Rebecca Ford: That's a lot. 

Quinta Brunson: That's it. That's a lot. All my other favorites were, were snubbed.

Rebecca Ford: All right. Well, we'll end with one last question, and you, like many creators and writers have had a few other projects that you've worked on that didn't end up making it to TV. I- that's just the nature of the beast with this. And I'm curious, you know, if there are other writers listening, how you deal with those kinds disappointments or setbacks and, and keep going?

Quinta Brunson: Absolutely. I think two things- when my setbacks would happen, or I didn't really look at them as setbacks. There was just nothing that could stop me from continuing to write and pursue this. I will say like, if _Abbott_ didn't go, I did feel very deeply like if _Abbott_ doesn't go, I'm not sure I'm supposed to be here. But, but the other things that didn't go are things I was still passionate about of course, but it was always leaving those experiences with, okay, what relationships have I built? What was the positive I can take away from this and it, you know, your show not making it or even getting canceled, stuff like that, it, it, you, there's a lot to take away from, from what that is and how to grow for- and move forward. And I know for even _Abbott _to happen, I pitched a show to Erin Warnberg who was my executive, who, who is the, uh, development executive on _Abbott_, but a year prior to me pitching _Abbott_ to her, I pitched another show to her that I didn't sell to ABC, I sold it to HBO max. But I left that meeting being like, I'm gonna work with that woman one day. I don't know when, I don't know how, but I just knew that was a relationship I wanted to maintain. I knew she got me. I knew she got my vision. I knew she understood my place in the ABC world too, which was interesting. That's something that even the, even though the show I was selling, wasn't going there I was like her and this, it can be something one day. It's about like maintaining those relationships and Justin and Patrick, who are my co-producers, they produced a pilot that they casted me in. It was like my first real acting job, and that pilot didn't go. But I was like, these guys are great. And they liked me. I liked them. Warner Brothers I've really been in business with since the beginning of my career. They've believed in me multiple times. Things that have gone, things that didn't. But that's positive. Like I think maybe somebody else would've been like, I'm leaving Warner Brothers. But I'm like, I have these people who believe in me enough to continue to try again and that's worth something. So I would tell people just to maintain their relationships. It's really, really positive. Don't burn bridges when something doesn't work out. You never know, you know, what will be around the corner and who's gonna be there. 

Rebecca Ford: Well, congrats on all the success. I hope you've been able to celebrate a little bit, even though you're very, very busy right now.

Quinta Brunson: Yeah. Doing my little here and that's why I'm so tired today. My friends, my friends made me go out and celebrate last night. They were like, you have to celebrate, but here I am at work, get my ass beat. You know, I'm like tired. 

Rebecca Ford: Well, you deserve it. 

Quinta Brunson: Thank you. 

Rebecca Ford: Uh, and I can't wait to see what's next, so thank you again for joining me.

Quinta Brunson: Thanks Rebecca.

Katey Rich: That does it for today's interview episode. We'll be back later this week with our regular round table conversation. In the meantime, find us at vanityfair.com, on Twitter @littlegoldmen. I am @kateyrich, and Rebecca? 

Rebecca Ford: @beccamford. 

Katey Rich: You can also sign up to text with us at joinsubtext.com/littlegoldmen or text 213-513-7215. Our editor and producer as always is Brett Fuchs.