Katey Rich: Hello, and welcome to _Little Gold Men_ the award season podcast from _Vanity Fair_. Intro: "It's such an honor to present this next award." "And here are the nominees." "And the Oscar goes to..." "And the Oscar goes to..." "And I can't deny the fact that you like me. Right now, you like me." "I'm the king of the world!" "There's a mistake, _Moonlight_, you guys won best picture." Katey Rich: Hi, I'm am Katey Rich, and I'm here for today's interview episode with both David Canfield and Rebecca Ford. Hi guys. Rebecca Ford: Hi! David Canfield: Hi! Katey Rich: Uh, we're closing out Emmy season, basically. This is our last episode that will air before Emmy voting ends, our last interview episode that will air before Emmy voting ends, at least. And we have two fantastic interviews with two Emmy nominees. Uh, so Rebecca, let's go to you first. Uh, you talked to one of the stars of probably the biggest, undeniable breakout of the past year, um, or at least one of them, uh, you talked to HoYeon about _Squid Game. _ Rebecca Ford: I did and she was so funny. She said it was like her first podcast and she hates her voice, so she was a little nervous. Katey Rich: That seems odd for an actor, but I feel like I've heard that before too. Rebecca Ford: But she was great. I mean, I think she's just been sort of in this whirlwind of immediate fame and awards for the past year, so it was really cool to get a perspective. Katey Rich: Uh, um, yeah, I think we all remember her from the SAG awards and just the, the huge night that _Squid Game_ had there. And she was such a big part of it and so like charming. And Rebecca, I remember you saying that the whole room kind of started revolving around the _Squid Game_ table. And I imagine the month since then it's been, uh, even more of a whirlwind. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. We talked about that speech because I actually asked if she had prepared that. And she said she had prepared nothing. And then, uh, her director was like, you need to prepare. And so she did actually have a little bit of prep, but I kind of, would've loved to see what the, I had nothing speech would've been as well. uh, but she, yeah, she's so charming and, and she talked a lot about sort of trying to stay grounded with this level of fame, which I thought was a really interesting perspective for someone so young and so new to this that she's still trying to keep her feet on the ground and she's doing a little vacation for the next month, but, um, she's also, you know, creating a career that will probably involve, uh, projects in Hollywood and English and American projects. So she's has a lot, uh, coming her way very soon. Katey Rich: Uh, yeah. And not that we don't wonder what everyone will wear to the Emmy's, but she seems like someone who the fashion world was especially excited about. Um, so what she wears the Emmy's, I'm very invested in. Okay. Let's hear more from your conversation with HoYeon, but first a word from our sponsor. Rebecca Ford: I'm so excited to welcome one of the stars of _Squid Game_, HoYeon, to the podcast. Thank you for joining me. HoYeon Jung: Hello, hello. Thank you for having me. Rebecca Ford: So, I'd love if you could start by telling me how you found out about your Emmy nomination. You know, _Squid Game_ got 14 Emmy nominations, and you got an individual one for your acting performance. So how did you hear about it? HoYeon Jung: Actually, at that time I was on a plane, airplane, so I was like trying to unload something and I trying to send the congrats message to all the cast and staff who got nominated, but the wifi didn't work. So it was like terrible. Like inside of me were like screaming that, 'I want to express this like, amazing feeling and want to congrats to director Hwang and the whole cast who like got nominated because we have this like a group chat.' And then I can get received, uh, the message the other people sent, but I can't send answers, replies. That was frustrating, but it was such a grateful and then just the fact that _Squid Game_ is the first non-English project who got nominated 14 categories. And then being a part of this journey is incredible. And it shows a lot, I think, it's not about one country that make these things possible. Nowaday I think, any country, if we are doing good at our job, we can kind of relate it to each other's, it show that I think. Rebecca Ford: Yeah, it was really exciting to see. HoYeon Jung: Yes, yes. Rebecca Ford: Yes. You know, we've seen that happen with the Oscars and with film in the last few years, things like _Parasite,_ but I think in television, this was sort of the last barrier to break. So it's, it's amazing to see _Squid Game_, do that. Yeah, and you've already won awards. I was at the SAG awards when you won and you had that really beautiful, emotional speech. And, and I'm, I'm curious, when you think back on that win and giving that speech, was it something you had prepared? How did you decide what you were gonna say to that audience? HoYeon Jung: So I hadn't prepared until the day of the SAG. It's just because of, I didn't think that I'm gonna win that award. I was just grateful to be nominated. It was like unbelievable, and an unexpected moment that like, even though it's just nomination was that kind of moment for me. And I really admire Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon, and the other actors on that categories. So I was, I wouldn't ever, never think that I could win that award, so I hadn't prepared at all. And then director Hwang, I think, and executive producer Kim Jiyeon, they asked me, have you prepared? So I'm like, no, why I have to? Because I'm not gonna win. They were like, but it's better to be prepared than not prepared, just in case. You know, it's better to have something just in case. So I'm like, that makes me kind of nervous. So I'm like, okay, then let's just write down something. And then I wrote down that... I don't know what wrote, I'm just saying I'm such a grateful and I love all actors in this room. I've been watching you guys as a fan of movie. Those kind of things, but it wasn't organized. And it, there was lots of sentences that I wrote down. And then when I got that award, I couldn't memorize anything what I wrote down except the sentence that I like speak at the stage. So that's why I'm... I sat there, I was totally lost I think. Rebecca Ford: Well, it came off as very genuine. I think the emotions you were feeling on that stage. And so when did you first realize that _Squid Game_ was becoming such a phenomenon? Was there a moment when things started to really shift after the show came out? HoYeon Jung: So many moments, uh, for that, I think because of, at the beginning, um, for the first week we have reaction from Korean audience and they were kind of getting interested in me. I have lots of interviews for Korean medias, so I was like, "Oh, this is going big.' So getting afraid, but the next week they said that it got number one show. Like it got in top 10 series in US Netflix. And then the next day it got in like France, or, you know, every country in a month. So it's like, you can't just follow up that speed with your kind of digestion level. So at the beginning I was afraid, but at some point I'm like, I couldn't follow what's going on. And then like, these awards happened. I got nominated, _Squid Game_ got nominated, and then all around people are recognize me on the street. Oh, it's like, there is not one moment that I really think that this is a big thing because of it's coming over, like top of the things and then the top of the things over and over and over many layers. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. HoYeon Jung: Yes, yes. Rebecca Ford: And people may not realize this is your first acting performance on a, on a major project and, and the sort of level of how impressive you were in this role, plus all the sort of accolades you're getting. I'm curious, what you think, why was this the role you were meant to take on? Why was this sort of your destiny to play this character? HoYeon Jung: If it's destiny, I don't know. We could never know why, but, um, what director Hwang told was, I was quite unique. There are many similar part with my character's. He sees that, but also he thinks that I'm quite unique and that's what he like about. But when I, you know, when I decide to starting acting, I wrote there was like things that I wanted to be like someone else. And then some people told me that, 'oh, you gotta be acting like this, like an amazing actress,' or they kind of do a lot of compare. Yeah, they compare a lot. But I think director Hwang is so special because he didn't let me, beating that kind of stereotype. I think he let me be myself with my character and that's how I think at the end, I kind of realized that, oh, he actually collaborate with me even though like at the beat- like at the moment while we are shooting, I couldn't, you know, fully understand. am I'm doing because of my anxiety or like everything. But at the end, I kind of realized how director Hwang was amazing to give me a space to be myself. And that's not what I did, I think that's what director Hwang did. Rebecca Ford: That's a very humble answer. HoYeon Jung: I really think that way. Like people told me that I'm so humble, but it's just, that was what it is like, and for actor, once I have more experience, I could help other people on set, but at my stage of my career, I think I need a lot of help. Of directors and the other actors and that's the beauty of it being on, you know, newbie. Rebecca Ford: And so speaking of being a newbie, I know you've, you know, signed with CAA, which is obviously the biggest agency in Hollywood. And, and I'm, I'm curious what you've discussed about what else you wanna do? Is there sort of a specific direction or type of work you're, you've told them that you're looking for? HoYeon Jung: I think I shared some of like, uh, movies that I like, um- Rebecca Ford: Like what? HoYeon Jung: Um, _Eternal Sunshine_ and _Incendies_, it's a Denis Villeneuve movie. Rebecca Ford: Yep. HoYeon Jung: And Alfonso's _Roma_, and _Y tu mamá._ I'm like speaking now about things that I can remember, but it's, there are so many. I think the importance of at my stage, I think to be open and have lots of experience. So there, there are things that I like, even though at the end we gonna go with my preference, but I just wanted to, you know, have many opinions or like different opinions and wanted to work with different styles of director, want to work with different style of genre of movies or drama. It's just because I get, I got so many things that normally the actors who's at my stage couldn't got, I guess. And then I also thought myself as a different stage of actors because of the things that I achieved, but it's actually, if you see the reality, I'm just an actor who just finished one project. Then I have so many way to go. Like I have so many, so long path to go. I want to be like that, so I shouldn't limit myself at this stage. And then just, I don't know, I just have to go for it. And then if there are things that... normally if I watch like a documentaries or like, there are things that I wanted to share to think about with people around the world. I kind of suggested that better than suggesting genre or directors or actors that I want to play. It's more about story. What story that I want to share with people. And that's kind of our goal right now to find the project, but sometime we can do, you know, just like very personal stories or we can do very big, big, big social problem based story. Yeah. So we are open, but we are not open. I dunno, yeah. Rebecca Ford: Um, and I'm curious for you, you know, aside from the career opportunities, how life has changed personally for you? I mean, is it hard to walk down the street? Are there, are there other parts of your day to day personal life that have changed because of this level of attention? HoYeon Jung: Yeah, basically I wear hat all the time, but it's actually good because I don't wear any sunscreen, normally, so it's actually prevents sunburn. So I find the joy to wearing hat. But yeah, it's like the life has been changed a lot from before _Squid Game_ and then after _Squid Game_ and the other things I think I can work around. Like I can handle it. But at some point I can feel myself are changing too, but sometime at some point of me and of my life, I don't want to change. And I'm kind of trying to hold it on the ground. Because as I said before, um, having lots of recognition is amazing. And then it's, as an actor, like have this kind of project that you put effort a lot, but also many people love is the dream job for every actor's. So I'm trying my best, just not to be flying around, fluid and have my opinion and then have the responsibility on things. So that makes me to be on the ground at the same time. At the same time can communicate with people like my friends, my family. It's very confusing emotion I think. Having this recognition, it's like just, it's so easy to flip. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. Yeah. HoYeon Jung: It's a good things, but also at the same time, if you cannot control or like handle this, well, it could be very toxic to your life, I think. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're speaking to the way that fame can make your reality seem totally unrealistic, basically. HoYeon Jung: Yeah, but it's harmful. It's hard when it's from inside rather like not from like outside. Like the other people's opinion or the other people's, uh, change, I can deal with it, but it's more, it's harder when it came from your inside I think. Rebecca Ford: I know, director Hwang did a interview where he may have been joking, but he said maybe there was a way to bring you back for season two, but is there any, any possibility as a twin or something, but is there, is there any possibility of you coming back or is _Squid Game_ really done for you? HoYeon Jung: His own writing, at this point, we couldn't say anything. Yeah. We, there is nothing we can share about it. And, but the two twins was joking, was totally joking while we are doing interview. But, uh, I think some of the media pick up as a, a weird thing that I'm gonna be back as a twin, so, but, that's not true. I can tell that, that's not true. But the other things, anythings about _Squid_ _Game _season two, even, I don't know. Like, and director Hwang even not a hundred percent know I think. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. I, I think everyone just wants to believe that there's a way for you to come back, even if it's not real. HoYeon Jung: I mean, at the, yeah, at the beginning I was like, oh, it's actually my ending. I thought that it was quite perfect. And then I didn't felt that that much like a sadness about the fact that I, that my character, that in _Squid Game_, but like now many people are talking to me and like, oh, like what about your character? Is she gonna come back? Is she gonna come back? Makes me like, oh, I want to come back. But let's wait. Rebecca Ford: We'll see what he can do. He can do anything I believe at this point. HoYeon Jung: Yeah. I could be like, you know, ghost where they sleep. I'm gonna be the ghost, like looking around. What's up, guys? Rebecca Ford: So, um, we're almost out of time, but the Emmys are just a couple months away and I I'm curious is, uh, there any other actor or show you're you're rooting for? Anyone you're excited to see there when you attend the event? HoYeon Jung: Oh, I'm such a fan of _Stranger Things_. You know, like whole- all the, like a cast from _Stranger Things_ I want to meet. Um, and also _Better Call Saul_. Rebecca Ford: Better Call Saul, yeah. It's great show. HoYeon Jung: Yeah. Yeah. The team was great, the team I want to meet. Rebecca Ford: Yeah and it'll be great to be reunited I'm sure with your _Squid Game_ cast. HoYeon Jung: Yeah. Actually in Korea, in, I think in a week, the movie that JJ Lee directed is coming, so we gonna reunite at the premiere of the movie. Rebecca Ford: Oh, that's great. That'll be fun. HoYeon Jung: Yeah, I think we are gonna drink all night long. Rebecca Ford: Well, you guys definitely deserve to celebrate after all this success. So thank you so much for joining me. It's so nice to talk to you. HoYeon Jung: Thank you. It was so lovely to chat with you. Katey Rich: Well earlier, I described _Squid Game_ as the unable breakout of the past year, but if there's any competition for it, it's probably _Yellowjackets_. Um, and we happen to have a star of _Yellowjackets_ also on this episode, David, you talked to Christina Ricci. How was that? David Canfield: Uh, it was lovely. Christina Ricci is on her second Emmy nomination. She was previously nominated as a guest star on _Grey's Anatomy_, uh, over a decade ago. And, uh, it's a, it's a kind of a, it's a big moment for her. It's a big project, uh, it's I think redefined the next phase of her career and, and she seems quite aware of that. And yeah, it was, it was interesting to get her perspective on that. Katey Rich: Yeah. I mean, the cast of _Yellowjackets,_ uh, that's been kind of the thrill of the show is that it's actors who we've been seeing for a long time. We've had Melanie Lynskey on this show before kind of talking about the long career that led to this point. And, you know, I think we're all certainly in the age range where, uh, there's a seminal Christina Ricci performance in our minds. Um, but I didn't even recognize her at first on _Yellowjackets,_ both because she's got this wig and she's just really going for it as this really wild character. It's such a fun, transformative performance to watch. David Canfield: Yeah. We talked about that a lot and particularly the experience of playing a transformative role off set and how she would be treated differently and, and got a had a different kind of experience as an actor on set, just given the nature she was playing the nature of the character she was playing. Um, we talked a little bit about _Monster_ actually, because she had thought of watching Charlize Theron on that set in a very transformative role when she was a younger actor, um, and, and kind of being in awe of her. And I think she liked having the experience of not being treated like herself. Even though, um, some, some baggage came with that in terms of the way people like her character Misty are treated and, um, how she experienced some of that even when the cameras weren't rolling. Katey Rich: And now you have my head spinning for what season two might bring out because whatever Misty has in store for us, it's gonna be weird and probably drive the platform in some way. So bring- David Canfield: Rest assured as of the recording, she knew absolutely nothing so... Katey Rich: No spoilers are ahead, at least for the, for now. David Canfield: No. Katey Rich: Uh, well, let's hear, uh, your conversation with Christina Ricci. David Canfield: Christina Ricci, uh, thank you so much for joining us, uh, here on _Little Gold Men_ and congrats on your well deserved nomination for _Yellowjackets. _ Christina Ricci: Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here. David Canfield: This is your first nomination for, uh, a regular role. Uh, you previously nominated, uh, for guest role. So I just wanted to start by asking a little bit about how this kind of recognition has resonated for you at this point in your career and, and for this role? Christina Ricci: It's really great. And, um, it's especially wonderful to be recognized, I think for this role, because she is a bit of, um, you know, it was a little bit of a risk. Uh, there were times when I was like, this could really work or this could be terrible. My performance. Meaning, meaning my performance choices. David Canfield: Meaning me. Christina Ricci: Meaning me. Um, so it's really great that it worked out. And it's, it's nice to, especially when you do sort of go out on a limb, or do something a little risky, it's nice for, for that sort of effort to be validated, I think, because it encourages you to, to do more of that. David Canfield: Yeah. Um, and you're going into season two end of the summer, correct? Christina Ricci: Mm-hmm, yep. David Canfield: So I imagine that's pretty good encouragement to keep going out on a limb, as you were saying? Christina Ricci: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it. What's so interesting about television, I think, is that you shoot the show and especially I think the first season, it's all about finding. Finding the characters, finding the show, the tone. All of that stuff. The whole time you feel like you're on fire pretty much. You know? David Canfield: Yeah. Christina Ricci: And you're just going and doing, and, and so then, then you get this period of time. Like the press you do for TV is so much longer than what you do, uh, for film. So you have this insane period of time where you just ruminate, talk about it with people, hear about what other people think, hear your, um, coworkers, like your writers actually talk in detail about intentions and, and all these things that you didn't know about while you were filming and you so had your head in the sand, just doing your, doing your best work, that you all of a sudden get this period of time where you really get to think even more deeply about the show and about your character. And I now, going into season two, have, you know, I want to make improvements. You know, I now feel like I have a deeper understanding of so many different things and the ability to evolve in a great way. So that's something that's been really interesting about this experience. David Canfield: That, yeah, I mean it premiered last year and because you have, and you just have the, the show press, and then you have awards press and yeah, it's, it's a long, long tale. There's an interesting, um, parallel between that and the fact that this is a show with a lot of mystery to it, and you guys don't know a lot, right? As of what's coming down the pike. Christina Ricci: Yeah, no, we don't. We really don't. And on the first, the first season we didn't either and I found it frustrating at times. And so that was one thing I learned from season one was to just... I just wanna be able to understand my character and do my job without having to know so much. So that's yeah, I think that's a specific muscle that you develop doing television. David Canfield: Um, going back to what you were saying about the lack of conversations you can have as you're starting a TV show, um, I know you've talked about, say, uh, the date scene, uh, with, for Misty in the second episode of the first season and, and kind of figuring out how to play it, where it makes sense that she is, is on a date with this man, which is interesting to me because there's, there is... I can see why you you're reading it and it's vague and you're like, what, what, why is this happening? But also there's a kind of freedom there in creating a character for yourself and, and her motivations and the way that she would operate in a moment like that. Christina Ricci: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I had to really look at that situation because I didn't ever see her as somebody who would have any real interest in romance. So I had to, again, you know, you kind of say, okay. If my character was in this situation, how would she have gotten here? And why would she be here? And that's all stuff that you, that you can play without ever having to tell anyone or argue about intention really, I think. David Canfield: I don't know if you've gotten any scripts for the new season, but even at the end of season one, say, did you find that they were, the writers were writing a little bit more to some of the choices you were making that were perhaps a bit surprising to them? Christina Ricci: Yeah. I mean, I do feel like some things, uh, that we did Juliette and I early on in the early episodes, I think that might have influenced the tone of some of the writing for our characters later. Um, we have a very sort of sisterly dynamic and, um, we would sort of ad lib some scenes and that would... that dynamic really came across. And so I think they played into that a little bit more. And there was, there was one scene where we weren't supposed to really physically interact. My character was just supposed to like rub her back and comfort her. But she, she like hit me. She turned around and hit me. So I, as a character just pushed her right back. And we ended up with like this weird, like juvenile pushing thing. And the writers were like, that was so amazing. It was so great because I think it immediately kind of showed what the dynamic was between us that you could really lean into and play with. And then later they wrote scenes where we did physically like hit each other and stuff, so... David Canfield: Yes. Yes. It becomes much more, much clearer. Christina Ricci: Yeah. David Canfield: Uh, that's interesting. In terms of going on a, out on a limb with, with some of the choices you made, as you said earlier, do you find that that's something that comes with experience, having been in this industry for a long time, feeling the confidence, to be able to try new things and, and go a little bit outside of your comfort zone? Or was this a project where you really were doing that in a way you, you hadn't done before? Christina Ricci: No, I think I always have. I think I'm someone who just can't, I can't help it. I have like a kind of natural contrarianism and so I always seem to have to give you the alternate version. So I think in some ways, like it's like a compulsion I have. Um, so I think I kind of always have, you know, sometimes it goes well and sometimes it's not as well received. And I think this is just an example of one, like really all worked out. Yeah, for the best. David Canfield: Um, she she's quite a, uh, hilariously passive aggressive that Misty is, um- Christina Ricci: It's, it's a very mature sort of rage and, um, her anger is the product of having been like squeezed for 35 years. David Canfield: Yeah. Christina Ricci: Have- having had all of her worst fears about her what her life would be really like solidified and validated. And she's had to, instead of being completely killed by that, this character has survived and flourished and created for herself a little autonomous world where no matter what's going on, she has a great time. She is going to enjoy her life. And you do see that that is a lot of her keeping down her rage about not getting what she wants. So then the rage comes out, as you say, in passive aggression, but I also have always been obsessed with... not obsessed, but I've always really wanted to play passive aggression and I've, I've usually been deterred from it. Um, in the past, it hasn't really been so recognized as sort of like, oh yeah, really valid. This is how a lot of people express anger. And I have to say, I think a lot of it comes from physiology, you know? Um, yeah. You know, Freud said physiology is fate. Well, anytime I'm playing anyone, I'm playing a five foot two woman. David Canfield: Yeah. Christina Ricci: And we cannot be really openly hostile all the time in public. Like never because we're tiny and we'll get killed. So, you know, ultimately like that is the animalistic sort of fear that comes from that physiology that then creates a person who operates in a really passive aggressive way and like, I am incredibly passive aggressive in public because it is the cowardly way to express your rage. David Canfield: Love it. Christina Ricci: So I've always, I've always kind of wanted to incorporate that into a character or deal I, or deal with anger in that way when I'm confronted with it as any character or a lot of them, I would say. But then for this character, it's so wonderful because they really leaned into it and they really embraced it and gave me the freedom to, to make it, uh, to, to make her expression of anger what I wanted it to be. David Canfield: Hmm. I'm curious too, how that manifests with, um, with her appearance. I, I know you've talked about being essentially treated as Misty when cameras were not rolling when you were in costume and, and hair and makeup as her, um, which certainly says a lot about how women who look like Misty are treated in the world. Christina Ricci: The amount of rage you would have. I was full of rage by the way I was being.... David Canfield: Yeah. Christina Ricci: You know, I was like, I'm being teased and dismissed and ignored. You know, it's really interesting. And just to see like that people are really, they can't, they can't help, but react to visuals and not go go a lot deeper a lot of times. So to think about what she... the 30 years of squeezing, like that's what I'm talking about. David Canfield: Yeah. Yeah. You, you felt it embodied in the way that you treated. Christina Ricci: Yeah, it was interesting. Samantha Hanratty who plays young Misty, she said she experienced the same thing. David Canfield: Oh wow. Christina Ricci: Which is really fascinating. David Canfield: That's really interesting. Christina Ricci: Yeah. David Canfield: Um, wow. I feel like, um, and I could absolutely be wrong here, but, um, and you would know better than me, but with child and teen actors and performances, the characters and the personas can kind of be put into as one and I'm curious if this was different for you in the persona, you're playing the character you're playing, being treated so differently from Christina? Christina Ricci: Yeah, it was different. I mean, Because I'm I sort of describe, well, I kind of always used to joke and describe myself as a, like a murderous golden retriever. You know, like you always go and pet the golden retriever, but the golden retriever might not like you and wanna be pet. David Canfield: Yeah. Christina Ricci: Um, so I always have had a little bit of that because I am like a small woman and childlike looking. And so people do touch me a lot and all this stuff. And so I, I, um, I do get treated a little bit like that, which was something I brought to Misty that feeling, but it was the first time that, that I really had that experience on set where it was like I completely disappeared once I put that costume on. David Canfield: Which there's obviously the frustrating element of the way people treat people like Misty, but I imagine there's some excitement in that maybe and in being able to have a transformation? Christina Ricci: I, yeah, no, it's just, and also, you know, when you say things in interviews, they get overblown. So it wasn't like I was being abused or people were openly hostile to me. David Canfield: You put on the glasses, they're like "out." Christina Ricci: It was just like, yeah, it was just like a, like a slight tone difference. Things that I'd never really experienced on any other environment and it was because of the way I was dressed. David Canfield: Um, you're often associated with, uh, Wednesday Adams, one of your first roles. Uh, and I know you can't say much about, uh, the new Netflix show yet in which you have a, um, a different role, which we don't know about. Um, but how has it felt just to jump back into that world into a, a kind of iconic sphere in which you, um, are so often associated, but now you are at such a different phase of, of your career in life? Christina Ricci: It was really nice. I was really flattered to be asked to join that show, um, because it's Tim Burton and I was also sort of, I don't know, it was nice. It felt nice on like a sentimental, emotional level to be asked to be a part of the new _Wednesday_ I felt was really, I don't know, it just, I was sort of touched by it in some weird way. Um, so, um, and I just wanted to go back. I realized the second part of that question, I didn't finish. You were saying that while there might have been, it might have been slightly annoying to disappear in that way there must have been another kind of fun to it. David Canfield: Yes. Sorry. Yes. Christina Ricci: The, the truth is that I really do, that is what I, I do love disappearing, not being, I don't like having, I, I like having to so be someone else that there's no vanity there, because it's not me. You know, there's, there's less ego, all of that stuff. And uh, so yeah, for me, that's a dream to just not have to worry about it being anything close to me. David Canfield: Yeah. You were, um, of course, a part of a movie where I think you would safely say one of the more iconic transformations in that respect happened in _Monster_ with Charlize Theron. Do you remember seeing that with her maybe, and, and, and feeling like I want that? Christina Ricci: I remember seeing her do it being so impressed at what she was doing and her just passion and egoless kind of diving into that character and that transformation. I was completely enamored with her and her ability to do that and her desire to, and, uh, while at that age, it didn't make me necessarily wanna do it that often. As I got older, I did because I was still so young. David Canfield: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Christina Ricci: I still wanted to be the pretty one, you know, I still wanted to, um, I would've loved to have been as beautiful as Charlize. And then I was like, well, if I was such beautiful as Charlize, I'd be fine with being ugly on camera. Like, I remember making that joke. But to tell you the truth as I got older, and I really saw how amazing that was and how amazing it would be for me and that, that, and I started doing it more and more, I guess. David Canfield: Hmm. Christina Ricci: Not the full, I mean, obviously I've never transformed to this extent she did. David Canfield: Sure. Christina Ricci: I mean, what she did and what she went through is just totally amazing having been there. David Canfield: I can only imagine. It's pretty astonishing to watch, that to be there it's probably a whole nother level. Um, you've mentioned wanting to direct, um, and you've had a front row seat to so many great directors. I would think you have formed some kind of idea of the kind of director you'd want to be. I'm curious if it's something you've been thinking about for a long time, um, or if it's something that's just started to percolate for you? Christina Ricci: No, it's been something I've been thinking about for a long time and I am attached to direct something, so. David Canfield: Oh, that's fantastic. Christina Ricci: Yeah. We'll see what happens, but I don't wanna talk about that stuff too much just because it makes me nervous. David Canfield: Okay. Okay. Christina Ricci: I'm feeling's the kind of thing I should do, and then talk about, you know what I mean? David Canfield: Fair enough. Christina Ricci: Yeah. David Canfield: Um, we did have, I did speak to Maggie Gyllenhaal last year about her first movie and, and one thing she said that was really interesting was she felt like she couldn't allow herself to place herself in the role of director just based on the cultural forces around her coming up in the industry. Um, but I did think of the fact that, uh, especially later in your career, you, you worked with a lot of really interesting, great female directors. Including just recently, Karyn Kusama on the _Yellowjackets_ pilot, did you find there was a difference for you coming up, working with men versus women at leading a set? Christina Ricci: Yeah, and it has changed over time. But I will say that years ago, I think it was so difficult for women to rise to that position. David Canfield: Yeah. Christina Ricci: That sometimes by the time they had gotten there, they were not allowed to be as at ease in the role. And thus sometimes were more difficult to work with than the men, just because in order to get there, they had to be so hard and so, so, so strong and always make sure they got their way. And there were some times when those wouldn't, you know, sometimes it, it would actually be more challenging at times to work with women. But I will say that as the industry evolved and changed, and it became less difficult for women to get to those positions now, working with women is amazing, because there is sort of an understanding of a past and a background that's really different. It's different to have a man say, you know, it's, it's this kind of man that you've been dealing with your whole life. You, you know, the kind of man? And I'm like, I know that kind of man? Do you know that kind of man? David Canfield: I have a different idea of that kinda man than you do. Christina Ricci: Yeah. Yes. So it's like little things like that and then I don't know some things being more comfortable to do what a woman's directing, et cetera. David Canfield: Yeah. I mean, in _Monster,_ you, of course had Patty Jenkins. Christina Ricci: Yeah. And Patty was, Patty is like the ultimate. She is one of my favorite human beings. One of my favorite directors I've ever worked with. She was so wonderful. She created such an incredibly respectful, collaborative environment and she never made anybody feel like they were less valuable than the project itself, which I think is a huge thing because as actors, that's really the message we're given. You know, when I was a child I was given that message over and over again that the, the ultimate thing is the production and no individual is important within it. She really had that more progressive feeling on set, which you experienced more now and it was a long time ago. So for her to already be there was amazing. David Canfield: Yeah, I know you've, you've said on _Yellowjackets_, it feels like there's less ego on that set than the typical set you've been on. Christina Ricci: Yeah, absolutely. And it's really amazing and working with all these other actresses is incredible and there is it there's, I don't know. We, we all kind of just get down to business and do our jobs and there's not, there's, there's a lot less, uh, ego, I think and drama. David Canfield: Coming, mostly from film, uh, and now you're in a show where you're doing this, hopefully for many years to come some years to come. Do you fear at all a monotony of playing the same role for years or, or is it a richer experience where you kind of get to find all these new nuances over time? Christina Ricci: I don't know. You know, that's the first time I've even considered the, that, that it might be really awful to play the same role for years. So you've introduced- David Canfield: I hope I didn't give you a bad thought. Christina Ricci: A new fear. You've just a new fear to me. David Canfield: Not my intention. Christina Ricci: No, I'm just kidding. I mean, I mean, I, I'm not kidding in that. I hadn't, it hadn't even occurred to me. I just, I feel like I, especially this character, I really love her. I love playing her. I mean, I don't love her, but I love playing her. I can't imagine it'll get boring because, and also even, I mean, she's such a proactive, active character that I would've, I, I, I never imagined getting bored, but we'll see. David Canfield: Yeah, yeah. Um, you also get to be really funny on _Yellowjackets_, which I appreciate. How do you find playing the comedy part of it, and do you like doing comedy generally? Christina Ricci: I always say to everybody that I, I don't like doing comedy and the big thing on the show would always be like, with the other actresses, I was like, yeah, but I have to do all this comedy. Um, but, uh, then, then, then, you know, I don't know. I think that sometimes, because I'm not a comedian and, uh, because I come more from a dramatic actress, sort of, point of view, I tend to sometimes over empathize with the characters, uh, that I play and then find myself making choices, or having reactions from their point of view instead of my own. Like as though their ego and mind have melded, and so with Misty, because she is never really in on a joke, she's always the being laughed at. David Canfield: Yes. Christina Ricci: I would at times feel really uncomfortable and like, it just, you know, I didn't enjoy that aspect sometimes. But then when I watch the show, I'm like, oh great. Yeah, it's really funny. But it's just one of those weird, like emo actor, things that I, as an actor have to be really aware of. David Canfield: It's interesting because you know, you think of the scene of like shoving Juliette Lewis, which I have learned is improvised to some extent, uh, and, and it plays both pretty funny, hard to deny it, but also there's such a real reaction there that says a lot about who she is and I do think there's a combination there of the comedy, both being entertaining and maybe saying a little bit more about Misty than you could say about it. Christina Ricci: Well, because I'm not a comedian that is how I deal with the comedy. Just try to really ground everything in, in reality, I would justify every single thing. And just, I don't know, try to make it as real as possible. Um, because then, then the real things you do do end up being funny somehow. But I don't know. It's so weird for me to talk about comedy because I'm not a com- I, I just don't even know how to play for a joke or any of that stuff. I don't know. David Canfield: You are very funny on this show, so , I'll leave it at that. Um, I lastly wanted to ask you zooming out beyond the show a little bit. We started by talking about press and the long wind of talking about the show. I'm curious about your feelings about interacting with fandom because this show has such a passionate fan base and it generated this incredible word of mouth. I know you've talked about like, really finding ComicCon meaningful at one point in your career, um say. In this case, what, what has that side of it been like for you? Engaging with people who have both fever, virtually loved the show and that maybe gain a lot of meaning from it as well? Christina Ricci: It's been great. Um, I really feel like people are responding to this show on a very kind of deep level. So to see that happening is really wonderful. When I spoke about how ComicCons had felt meaningful to me, it was because I've got to witness and to, to refamiliarize myself with. How much, uh, film and TV can change a person's life. David Canfield: Yeah. Christina Ricci: How much it can mean to a person. And, and then remembering how much it meant to me. The amount of escape I, I got from my favorite shows and the people that I was a huge fan of and who meant so much to me. So, so that is really meaningful and it, it did for me in the past really make me feel that what I did had more value. I had maybe lost touch with the value of what we do a little bit. And so to see that many people whose lives have been touched or moved or helped was really meaningful for me. Katey Rich: That does it for today's interview episode will be back later this week with our round table conversation and the continuation of our book club series. In the meantime, you can find us vanityfair.com. You can find us on Twitter @littlegoldmen and on our own. I am @kateyrich and David? David Canfield: @davidcanfield97. Katey Rich: And Rebecca? Rebecca Ford: @beccamford. Katey Rich: You can also text us at joinsubtext.com/littlegoldmen or text 213-513-7118. Our editor and producer is Brett Fuchs.