Katey Rich: Hello, and welcome to _Little Gold Men_ the award season podcast from _Vanity Fair_. Intro: "It's such an honor to present this next award." "And here are the nominees." "And the Oscar goes to..." "And the Oscar goes to..." "And I can't deny the fact that you like me. Right now, you like me." "I'm the king of the world!" "There's a mistake, _Moonlight_, you guys won best picture." Katey Rich: I am Katey Rich, and I'm here with our mountain returning correspondent, David Canfield. David Canfield: Hello. Katey Rich: And Rebecca Ford. Rebecca Ford: Hi. Katey Rich: Uh, we'll also be joined later, or I will be joined later by Richard Lawson, who is still somewhere in the canals of Venice because guys, I feel like we're like in the locker room at halftime, not to bring a sports metaphor into movies, but Telluride is over, Venice is still ongoing, but wrapping up, uh, Toronto is right around the corner. We really are in this kind of like breather moment, uh, amid festivals to talk about a ton of stuff that we've learned. Are, are you guys completely worn out after Telluride? Are you energized by the season uphead? Maybe a little bit of both? Rebecca Ford: I think a little bit of both. I feel like I forget how tiring festivals are. I mean, it's so much fun and excitement, but by the last day, you're just like, where am I? What is happening, but I, I think we have a lot to talk about with the movies, so it's nice to feel like we've finally seen a large chunk of what we're gonna be discussing. Katey Rich: Um, well, we talked a little bit about _Tár_ last week, that was kind of the first festival title we really got to dive into. And I don't wanna just go right back to it, but I do feel like _Tár_ was the subject of the entire weekend. We heard from Richard last week about what a triumphant was, now you guys have seen it, and you saw Cate Blanchett kind of ruling the roost at Telluride. Am I right that, that was the story of the weekend? David Canfield: I think it was one of them. Uh, it was definitely performance wise, I think it was definitely the one that, um, popped the most. It was definitely the one that popped the most, and I think for those who had seen the movie that, that at that tribute screening, it was sort of like an overwhelming Cate Blanchett love fest um, because she's just so extraordinary in the movie, but there were a couple other movies that popped for sure. Um, but that one did take up a lot of oxygen also just because it's a real conversation starter. Rebecca Ford: Yeah, I feel like that was the one everyone was talking about, you know, the day we arrived and the, and before it had screened be just because the buzz was so big. Um, and, and David and I went to the Cate Blanchett tribute, the first screening, and you could feel that excitement in the room. Um, and I think to me, it totally delivered on, on all my high expectations. But it's interesting because in the days after, before I left, I was sort of talking to random people on the street at other festival goers about that film, because it came up a lot and it was more polarizing than I thought when you got beyond the, the press and critics. Katey Rich: Polarizing, I mean I guess the subject matter is that the, the issue here? Rebecca Ford: I think if people just liked it, to be honest. Katey Rich: Oh, interesting. David Canfield: There are some actors who at, at various off the record events, uh, expressed not loving the movie. Uh, so I can't reveal who they are, but, um, I, I think that did speak to generally the movie asking a lot of people in its first half hour or so, a lot has been made of the fact that the entire usually end credits show up at the beginning of the movie, which I think has a lot to do with what the movie's about, being about a conductor kind of dismantling a kind of auteur theory. I thought that was interesting, and then you go into a 10 to 15 minute interview between Blanchett's character and Adam Gopnik of _The New Yorker_ playing himself. So, you know, you, you, it takes a while for you to settle in and realize what you're in for, um, which maybe for some viewers, uh, some audience members was trickier. Um, for me, there was a kind of classic split in terms of what hit the most between what's surely... both are very well reviewed, but one is I think, more arty and demanding and chillier in _Tár_. Um, and that I think got the best, best reviews outta the festival and the other's _Women Talking_, which from what I could tell about had the best word of mouth of any movie there, I was at the tribute premiere for the Sarah Polley event. Uh, she's the writer director, um, and it was just an incredibly well received premier. It was the first screening I went to and I don't think any screen matched just in terms of, you know, laughing at the right moments, silence at the right moments, and the, the quality of applause at the end. And it ends on a really hopeful note, which I think left people feeling maybe surprisingly good for a film that's really tough and difficult at times, but finds a lot of hope in, in the way it tells its story. So that was one that really, I thought played extremely well, pretty much across the board. Katey Rich: Rebecca, in your conversation with random festival goers, did people share that love for Women- I mean, we've been in the tank for _Women Talking_ and Sarah Polley as well established on this show, but I don't think it was just us, right? Rebecca Ford: No. Yeah. I mean, I feel like most people I talked to loved that film. There definitely is a... it's sort of a murmur about, you know, if it can, if it will be as beloved by Academy voters, um, which I think it will, and I have faith in the Academy, but you know, I feel like we've heard this conversation about a, a movie that's 99% women talking in a room, like will the still majority male, uh, Academy membership, you know, appreciate that. But I obviously that is, uh, completely possible for male audience members to appreciate this movie. So I think it's, it's definitely feels like, uh, one of the top films that came outta that festival. Katey Rich: Yeah, I wanna promote the interviews you guys both did over throughout Telluride because it's one of the really remarkable things about the festival is everyone's very, uh, very nearby. Um, you can kind of grab them all. Um, and David, you'd talk to a lot of the cast of _Women Talking_ in this really long rambling conversation, which, you know, as someone who's read the book, but hasn't seen the movie yet, but it felt like such a fasting distillation of what the book has and what it seems like the movie has. Yeah, just like a good reason to root for all of these people as the movie makes its way through the season. David Canfield: Yeah. Um, they were truly everywhere too. They were, I mean, I have friends who ran into like just groups of _Women Talking_ women like Claire Foy and Jessie Buckley and Frances McDormand Sarah Polley in the bathroom at, I saw them at the _Empire of Light_ premier. I walked by them on the street more times than I can count, especially Frances McDormand, who is absolutely living her best life at this festival based on the smile on her face that never seemed to go away. And just generally I think that it was the premier for Telluride. _Tár,_ of course, was at Venice as were a couple of other films. The other film _Empire of Light_ Sam Mendes was the only person in town for it. Uh, Michael Ward and Olivia Coleman, the stars of the movie zoomed in for the premiere. So it was just a full, complete, um, _Women Talking_ moment, uh, especially, uh, those first few days after the movie premiered. And, um, I, I think it showed how much they love and believe in the movie. And yet to your point about that interview, Katey, we were seated on benches outside, and it was not in a hayloft, but, um, it was outside of an, an ice hockey rink, more accurately as it goes at Telluride. Um, and it's just me and they're kind of seated on benches around me and the conversation was one of the more unusual and moving ones I've had, uh, and certainly at a festival, just in terms of the way they were able to talk about what the movie meant to them, as well as the process of making it. And yeah, I think that that kind of dialogue about the movie that they're able to have is gonna serve them well over the next few months. Katey Rich: Yeah. I wanna talk about _Empire of Light_, actually, because I was just thinking, as you were talking about _Women Talking_ be a little bit hopeful, but _Tár_ being a little alienating, we can talk about _Bardo_ later, but in terms of a movie that makes people feel, like kind of hits you in the heart and makes you feel good in a way it seems like _Empire of Light_ might have that lane to itself almost. Am I reading this movie correctly? Rebecca Ford: Yeah. I mean, there are parts of it that are very hard to watch, because it does explore racial issues in that time period. Katey Rich: Um, in the early eighties, right? Rebecca Ford: In the early eighties. Yeah, in the UK. And, uh, but I mean, I was totally pulled into it. I really enjoyed the film. It's beautifully shot by Roger Deakins. It, it's got these phenomenal performances by the Olivia Coleman and Michael Ward. Um, and it also is sort of that classic movie that the Academy really appreciates. It's about cinema, it, it does have that sort of uplifting, you know, storyline, and it's funny because all the people I talked to who did not like _Tár_ loved _Empire of Light_ and I do think there is something about an Academy voter that will definitely love this movie, so we should definitely be paying attention to it. Katey Rich: This is already the, uh, the, um, _Green Book_ versus _Roma_ of, of this year. David Canfield: Yeah. And you could, you could argue, you could argue _Women Talking_ as kind of in that perfect middle ground, because yeah, the, the contrast between _Empire of Light_ and _Tár_ is really striking, because. _Empire of Light _has received so far pretty mixed reviews, but to me, it's really perfectly in that kind of _Jojo Rabbit, Belfast_ vein, where critics might not be as warm to it, but, um, the combination of what it says about movies and it's, um, ultimately very sweet and uplifting tone feels tailor made for the Academy. I think a lot of people, including myself, had some issues with, with the script and directions he takes the story in, but there's no denying Sam Mendes knows how to put a movie together. And just as Rebecca said, the way it looks the way it sounds, Olivia Coleman is so good, uh, as is Michael Ward. Um, there's so much there that you just know is gonna appeal to this block of voters, that it, it should be able to sustain itself pretty well I think. Katey Rich: Well, David you with _Belfast_ and _Jojo Rabbit_, I believe you named two Toronto Audience Award winners, um, from recent years, and _Empire of Flight_ is headed to Toronto after this, so now my, my little antenna are tingling. It's gonna get past Steven Spielberg and the _Knives Out_ sequel, but that's, that seems like a possible route. David Canfield: Yeah, I think that's exactly why it's going there. Uh, and same with _Women Talking._ It'll be interesting to see how, how far that can go in Toronto. I mean, that's, I suppose the next big test for this season. Katey Rich: Yeah. Well, we should talk about _Bardo_, um, which Richard would be able to talk about as well. Uh, it was also at Venice and then came to Telluride. Um, and I had heard from a friend who does not work with us that for as much as _Tár_ is the movie everyone seems to agree on, and, you know, people had been more skeptical, _Bardo_ that there, there were pockets of support for _Bardo_ out there in Telluride among filmmakers. Um, and it might not be as, as much of a dud as it seems. Did it feel that way to you guys? Rebecca Ford: Yeah, I think when we left the screening, which started at like 8:45 PM and it's a three hour movie, so we were all, you know, a, a little tired, uh, by the time it got out. But it, it felt very cold to the reaction. Um, but then, you know, you saw these filmmakers come out. Um, Chloé Zhao was there and Barry Jenkins was tweeting about it and, and Lulu Wang, so who really related to the film and, and felt, uh, a lot of powerful emotions about it. And, and for me, I felt it is too long, but there are moments in that movie that are magnificent and I firmly believe there is a really wonderful two hour movie in there if, if there'd been a little bit of, uh, cutting down. But those moments that were so great, I was like, I just want more of this. So yeah, it's, it's, it's a tough one, but I do think it is worth noting that there are people who maybe, especially like Chloé Zhao, people who have had this sort of immigration identity issues that they've also grappled with that are really, um, relating to this film. Katey Rich: And Rebecca, you talked to Iñárritu at Telluride, and about some of that response, which I, I think is interesting to get people when the reviews or their movie have just come out and he seemed kind of perplexed, but not angry about the reviews, right? Rebecca Ford: Yeah. I mean, he seemed a little angry. He hadn't read them all, uh, but perplexed is the right word because he just kept saying, I don't understand what self-indulgent means with this. Like, this is my story. Like he has openly said this is not him in the movie, but this is based on his personal journey, and so there are lots of filmmakers who have made movies about things they're grappling with personally and I think he felt like he had a right to do that. So, yeah, it's interesting to hear him talk about it and to see him, you know, just a couple days after those reviews had come out and he was dealing with- he also said he may not make another movie again, which I felt really worried about. Katey Rich: He really buried the lead in that interview. It's like the very end. It was like, wait, really? That doesn't seem possible. Rebecca Ford: Something will pull him back in I'm sure. But I'm, I feel like there'll be another long break before we see something from him. Katey Rich: And yeah, I mean, among the questions we got from listeners on subtext about this crazy weekend and yes, a lot of them were about _Don't Worry Darling _we'll get there. Um, but, um, Haslin asked, this is the first year that Netflix may not have a bonafide Oscar contender because the reviews for _Bardo_ were mediocre and then _White Noise_, which was not at Telluride, it was at Venice, was not especially, um, hugely received either. Um, How are you guys feeling about Netflix this, you know, it's been such a juggernaut for the last couple years, is _Bardo_ gonna be a tougher sell than _Power of the Dog_ and _Roma?_ David Canfield: Um, it's, it's definitely not last year, um, for example. I mean, coming out of the festivals, you had _Power of the Dog_ and _Lost Daughter_ were on such a high with critics alone and, and were able to, between them, and then you also had movies, like _Don't Look up_, which came later emassing a lot of Oscar nominations, um- Katey Rich: _tick, tick...BOOM!_ David Canfield: And _tick, tick...BOOM!_, which premiered AFI. It's, it's gonna be a tough year for them. I mean, I think that's really quite clear. You know, if you talk about the highlights _Women Talking, Tár,_ maybe _Empire of Light_ to an extent, like Netflix just isn't really in that category out of Telluride, despite having, you know, thrown events for each of their films. They also had _Lady Chatterley's Lover_ and _The Wonder_, which were, you know, pretty decently received, but they're not gonna be significant Oscar movies I don't think. The bigger question is, to Rebecca's point about what they can do with a movie like _Bardo,_ because there's definitely going to be filmmaker support to an extent for what is such a personal statement. But if you look at between that and _Empire of Light,_ the two movies that maybe, the two big movies that critics maybe weren't as warm to, _Empire of Light_ played really well with the audience and _Bardo_ really didn't. Um, and I think it's a really important difference. Um, this is not a movie that's going to have a lot of critical support from what we've seen out of both Venice and Telluride now, it's pretty good sample size at this point, and it's not an audience friendly movie either. It's kind of in that really awkward middle ground, where I suppose you could see the director's branch who really love Iñárritu, lobbying for him. Katey Rich: Yeah. David Canfield: But it's very hard for me to see this movie making the top 10 for Best Picture. On the other hand, I'm very intrigued by _Glass Onion_, which is premiering at TIFF next week. Um, or I guess it's this week is the more accurate way of putting it at this point. Katey Rich: What is time? David Canfield: All sense of time is gone. I don't know what time zone I'm in right now. Um, because _Knives Out _really was one or two slots away from getting nominated, um, in its year and yeah, this, that was back when we did not have 10 Best Picture nominees. Um, the advance on this one, I have not seen it, I don't know anything about it is, is pretty good. And just generally it seems like Netflix desperately needs a crowd pleaser to have among its mix, because I mean, Rebecca and I have not seen _White Noise_ or heard anything about it, Telluride, because no one there had seen it. Um, so Richard can get into that more, but it also does not sound like it's the kind of movie that's going to win over, you know, the hearts of, of, um, not so cynical Academy members. So, in conclusion, I think that they're in trouble, but they also have one unseen movie and they have one movie that is a really unusual case. I don't think it can go very far, but it can definitely pick up some nominations, the craft on _Bardo_ alone is pretty remarkable. Rebecca Ford: I do... and I know some Netflix people listen to our podcast and will roll their eyes, but I do wonder if there's any way this movie could be cut down before it's released, but- Katey Rich: Ooh. Rebecca Ford: I, you know, when you're working with an auteur who's telling his personal story, I don't think you can go back to them and say, uh, you wanna do a little trimming? But I, I just, I wish that was something that could have been considered or maybe done earlier in this process to trim it down a little, because I do think if there's anything we heard on the ground at the festival was that people are not tolerating long movies, maybe like they did before the pandemic. I don't know if we all just got used to watching things at home and being able to sort of- Katey Rich: Watching eight hour streaming series instead. Rebecca Ford: Yeah, yeah. Right. Like, we're fine with that, but God forbid a three hour movie. Katey Rich: Yeah. Rebecca Ford: So it does feel like this is not the only movie that everyone was like, this is too long, you know? So, um, there's quite a few others that I think that- Katey Rich: _Blonde_ is very long, I think. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. Katey Rich: Um, Richard will talk more about that and _Fablemans, _you know, coming up at, at TIFF this weekend, I think is also pretty long._ _ David Canfield: _Tár_ is quite long, but it's funny, the amount of work you have to do to get to the meat of the movie, it doesn't feel that long by the time you're actually in it. So , that's a neat trick of it, I think. Katey Rich: Um, a, a kind of similar question, you know what, and we, I think we all wanna be careful about how much we talk about like, well, this person's getting nominated and that person's getting nominated because that kind of hyperbole flies around a lot this time of year. But I think there are some inferences we can make about the season ahead. Um, but we got a question from Thomas saying, is there any chance that Paul Mescal could enter the Best Actor race now that the field is looking a bit weaker? Um, and David, you wrote about Best Actor specifically in our, um, festival live blog over the weekend, about how, you know, with _Bardo_ underperforming a bit with _White Noise_ underperforming a bit, um, it is the, it does look like it may have a more open field than it did a few days. David Canfield: Yeah. I mean not to, to pile on Netflix, but I think two contenders we were really looking at were Adam Driver, uh, for _White Noise_ and Daniel Giménez Cacho for _Bardo_ and those don't look like sure things at the very least. Um, so yeah, the category really opened up and you can also factor in, um, the fact that there's just not, and it's a nice change of pace because a lot of the movies we're talking about that really hit have lead performances from actresses. Uh, _Empire of Light_, I would assume Michael Ward will go supporting, you could probably argue he could be push for lead, um, but _Women Talking_ is almost all women. Ben Whishaw is a strong Supporting Actor candidate, but he's the only one. And, um, _Tár_ of course is the Cate Blanchet show. So over an actor, you have a really unusual mix that kind of reminds me how we talked about actress last year. And so yeah, you have someone like Paul Mescal who is in _After Sun_, which was really well received at Telluride, as it was at Cannes, um, it's also going to Toronto, A24 is handling it. Um, I think they believe in the movie. A24 also has a really stacked slate. Katey Rich: Yeah. David Canfield: And, um, I think they're gonna have to take a little bit of a wait and see approach on how much they will push him, especially because in my opinion, the pretty strong best actor front runner right now is an A24 contender, Brendan Fraser for _The Whale._ But, you know, it, it's starting to fill up. We had _Banshees of Inisherin_ get pretty incredible reviews on Monday in Venice. Colin Farrell seems pretty likely to get his first nomination. Katey Rich: Thank goodness. Oh my God, way too long. David Canfield: I've been hinting. I'd been hinting. Katey Rich: I know. Well, yeah, that's the thing is you we've known that you've seen it and you've been trying to be coy about it. I guess, you know, you weren't at Venice, but you wrote our first look for it, but you, you know, more than, and Rebecca at least, and know that Colin's got the goods. David Canfield: Yeah. And I know Richard agrees, so he can, he can yeah carry that home for us on this podcast. Um, but the other really thing, the other thing I loved about just being in Telluride and particularly thinking about this category was seeing people like Bill Nighy and Song Kang-Ho who are repping smaller movies, well receive movies, and just charming the hell out of everybody who walked by them. And, and you hope there's room for, for an actor like that too. Um, I think it's gonna be very, it's, it's very hard to say at this stage, which of that, that big group of great performances and small movies will actually have what it takes to go to the distance. But I'd say Mescal is among that group right now. I personally wouldn't predict him yet, but never say never. Katey Rich: Well, that's also to me and it's, it's hard to think about this now, because we're such a festival fever, but Austin Butler in _Elvis_ and Tom Cruise in _Top Gun_ like they are still there. David Canfield: Absolutely. Katey Rich: And when that starts thinning out- David Canfield: Stronger by the day- Katey Rich: Yeah. Honestly like I, I wrote the piece about Tom Cruise a couple months ago and like I still stand by that that would be a perfectly fine Best Actor nomination. So, you know, could, could happen. Uh, okay before we, um, we wanna talk about _Don't Worry Darling_ a little bit before we bring in Richard for his on the ground perspective on, uh, the story of the week, but let's look ahead to Toronto just for a second, because as we said, _Glass Onion_ is still premiering there, _Fablemans_, um, which we, uh, anticipate might have a very big Michelle Williams performance and speaking Best Actress are coming there. Um, David you'll be there, what else are you expecting to emerge or morph in terms of narrative um, at Toronto? David Canfield: Uh, out of Toronto, I always look for those movies we know so little about, uh, that might have a big performance in them. _Still Alice_ quite famously launched Julianne Moore out of nowhere. Um, so I'm looking at a movie like _The Lost King_, which has Sally Hawkins. It's directed by Steven Frears who has, uh, directed many in Oscar nominated performance, that's premiering Friday night. Um, on the more commercial side, _The Woman King_ kind of feels right in between, uh, a maybe Oscar movie or a more commercial play. Um, it's from Gina Prince-Bythewood and it has Viola Davis. Katey Rich: It's also out in September, which makes it sound like a more commercial play. David Canfield: Yes, exactly. Um, but it's, the trailer was kind of badass, so , uh, people are, people are looking at it and I think that there is some hope for it to go pretty far as a big movie, maybe rounding out a Best Picture 10, we shall see. Um, Jennifer Lauren has a kind of mystery movie in _Causeway_. She just had a big Vogue cover out in advance of the TIFF premiere, which peaked my interest a little bit. Brian Tyree Henry's also starring in that, um, and _Devotion_, uh, which Rebecca wrote our first look on, uh, and that's a movie that has Jonathan Majors who also had a big profile out recently. Star who deserves a real platform I think in a real showcase, uh, at a movie of what I hope is this scale. So, um, yeah, there's lots to look forward to. It's it's a pretty packed lineup. Katey Rich: I'm also gonna throw in _The Inspection_, uh, which we've talked about plenty already, but just remember that the Gabrielle Union moment could be days away or hours away as you listen to this. David Canfield: I was truly looking at my Friday to Monday schedule and I'm seeing _The_ _Inspection_ on Thursday. So that's why I forgot to mention it. Because that's literally happening the day this podcast is out, which is kind of horrifying to me, but anyway, I'm excited to see it. Katey Rich: Rebecca, watching from afar, is there anything you'll be looking for, uh, happening at TIFF? Rebecca Ford: David mentioned _The Woman King,_ I am curious how that play. I think it'll play well at that audience and, and I haven't seen _Glass Onion_, yet, but I'm also very interested in that one and I do agree with David that I think Netflix could make a good run with that, um, as well. So I'm, I'm gonna have a lot of FOMO, but, uh, I'll be watching from a far. Katey Rich: Okay. Let's, let's move over to Venice in our minds, um, to talk about _Don't Worry Darling_ and like, as I said, uh, Richard will weigh in, in a little bit after this, but while I have the two of you, um, it really has been, it was the story of Labor Day and I think part of that's just because in America, uh, people had the day off of work, so they spent all day following the _Don't Worry Darling_ premiere on Twitter. Um, I don't know how much we wanna get into the raft of JFK level of conspiracy theories about what happened at that premier, um, but David and Rebecca, you guys have seen the movie, um, which I think went over, okay to not great. Um, what I mean, is this gonna just keep snowballing until the movie opens to a hundred million dollars? Like what is gonna happen with _Don't Worry Darling_ from here? Rebecca Ford: Uh, just release the movie and let's move on at this point. I mean, I think if there weren't all this drama, honestly, other than the Harry Styles of it all, I feel like this movie would've kind of come and gone and everyone been like that was okay. But it is just, the noise is so much louder than the actual movie at this point. I, I, I don't know. I mean, yeah, David and I have both seen it. I, I think it was fine. I think Florence Pugh is phenomenal in it as she's in almost everything she does, but it is not something that would get any conversation beyond its release weekend if it weren't for the rest of this stuff happening. David Canfield: Correct. I don't think it's a very good, I don't think it's a very good movie, um, candidly and I just, it's sort of baffling to me how far this has gone and how far it's... I mean, it's prob five things will have happened by the time this podcast is out, uh, versus recording now. Katey Rich: Yeah, that's true, we, we should not talk about the spit video because who knows what we'll know about what may or may not have happened by the time this comes out. Alleged spit, I should say. David Canfield: Alleged spit. Emphasis on alleged. Katey Rich: Yeah. I mean, should people go see it? Like, is it worth to see what all this fuss is about? Rebecca Ford: I mean, I think people have watched more hours of this spit take than the actual length of the movie. Like the deep, I did some deep analysis, you know, on a Twitter, but the- David Canfield: The slowmo video is really compelling. Rebecca Ford: But should people see- uh, I think, sorry. Should people see it? Um, yes, I think people should see it. You know, like I said, there are some good parts to it, but don't go into it hoping to like see some of the undercurrents of drama because I was looking for them when we were screening it and you can't- there's nothing to spot there. David Canfield: Here's what I would say, it, it is a really, in many ways, routine kind of social thriller that has all this intrigue being projected onto it. But the movie itself is pretty standard. And if you're going in being like, oh my God, what am I gonna catch out of all this behind the scenes drama, you are going to be sorely disappointed. Uh, and that's not even a reflection of the quality of the movie, it's just not the movie does not really have that. It's, you know, very it's, it's nicely put together. I think the third act is particularly messy, and I'm not quite sure what happened there in the script. There is a, um, a stabbing let's say that I found really confounding. Katey Rich: Didn't know there was a stabbing. See I'm already learning something. David Canfield: There you go. Um, but it's, it's just a movie that does not rise to the level of the conversation around it, and that is really my take away. Katey Rich: I would like it if, um, the power of gossip and drama and like Twitter sleuthing managed to save movie theaters by sending everyone to see _Don't Worry Darling_ on opening weekend would just be something nice about putting all this energy towards something. So maybe, maybe I'm rooting for its unqualified success. Rebecca Ford: But then we might have to keep talking about it, Katey. Katey Rich: That's true. That's true. It might be time to move on. So Rebecca, before we jumped to Richard in Venice, I did wanna talk about a really exciting first look that you wrote for us, um, where _Babylon_ is just one of the huge question marks remaining in the season. So many of the other major movies are at festivals and you got a first look at it and to talk to Damien Chazelle about a little bit. They're kind of keeping a lot of secret to themselves, but, uh, what'd you learn about _Babylon_. Rebecca Ford: Well, Katey, this has been a project, I feel like I've been paying attention to since we did our Oscar predictions the day after last year's Oscars. I picked it as my- Katey Rich: I think it was a good prediction. Rebecca Ford: My Best Picture one, because I, I, I think Damien is just like extremely talented. He can do these sort of big showy pieces as we saw with _Lala Land,_ but then when you look at something like _Whiplash,_ he can do something that's sort of dark and tortured as well. So, um, I thought this could be right up that, uh, a nice, happy medium between those two things. And it seems like it's going to be. You know, we had heard that this was a project that stars Brad Pitt and Margot Robbie, and that they were playing, you know, Hollywood actors in the 1920s. Um, we had heard Margot was playing Clara Bow, but you know, talking to Damien it turns out that the characters are fictional, but inspired by a lot of real life Hollywood actors. Um, but it is gonna be sort of this big bold take of, of that time period in Hollywood. Katey Rich: I do love the fact that there is one person playing a real person, Max Minghella as Irving Thalberg, who was this kind of this wunderkind producer in that period of Hollywood, who I have always found totally fascinating. So I love that he is the one real person in there. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. I think it it's nice they have that touch and I'm sure when we all see this film there will be a lot of references that, you know, are familiar to us about other actors. Um, but it's just gotta, you know, beyond Margot and Brad, who I think are gonna give really showy performances in this, it's gotta really strong supporting ensemble because it's really supposed to follow several different characters in Hollywood, you know? So you're gonna see Jean Smart and Tobey Maguire and so, so it's not, it's not just the two of them, but, uh, I think we're gonna see some sort of breakout performances from the supporting group as well. Katey Rich: Yeah, I didn't realize until reading your piece, that Diego Calva is kind of the third lead in the movie. He's playing, uh, this character, Manny Torres who's a Mexican immigrant to Hollywood. Um, I don't know if that means it's going to kind of expand beyond history because I think we know that the, um, amount of lead man roles for Mexican actors at that time was pretty limited. But, um, I thought that was really intriguing addition that I didn't know already. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. I mean, of course we all pay attention to Brad and Margot, but I think that Calva could really be sort of a breakout, uh, discovery from this as well if his role is as big as, as it sounds like it is. Katey Rich: So the photos were so intruiging. I mean, I, I kind of peeked through them in our, in our CMS last week. Uh, I got really stuck on the Tobey Maguire image where he has like this wild makeup on that makes him look like a goblin. I don't know what is happening. There had been rumors of his character was Charlie Chaplin. I, we didn't really get any confirmation on that. Um, what images really pop for you? Rebecca Ford: I think, uh, obviously the Tobey Maguire one and everyone should check that out, but you know, there's this image of Margot sort of being carried across this huge party scene, um, you know, on her back and like, you know, I may have seen a little bit of footage that indicates that this movie is definitely gonna have these sort of big scenes with lots of extras and partying and, and sort of that like, you know, _Great Gatsby-esque_ uh, feel to it, so I think that's something I'm really excited to see because I, I do think Damien Chazelle can pull off, uh, that sort of choreography so well. Katey Rich: Yeah. And I lo- I love the shot of Li Jun Li as Lady Fay Zhu, uh, who seems like she would be based on Anna May Wong, who was a, um, you know, a Chinese American major star in that period. Um, you know, she's got this like Marlene Dietrich tux outfit on, I don't know. I don't know anything else about it, but it's a great image. Rebecca Ford: Obviously smoking a cigarette in the shot. So, you know, it definitely has that drama to it. Katey Rich: Yeah. You make a movie set in old Hollywood and you get to have so many glamorous smoking shots and don't have to feel too bad about it. Um, I assume that we're just gonna continue looking ahead toward _Babylon_ as this huge kind of looming player at the end of the season. We don't have any sense if it's gonna show up sooner. Um, do you feel like they're gonna give us this and then really hold it tight until like Thanksgiving? Rebecca Ford: You know, it's interesting because it doesn't come out till Christmas. And when I talked to Damien he wasn't done yet, he was hoping to be done by October with the actual final cut. So, uh, who knows how much they can actually do before that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up at one of the festivals. Uh, but so far, no confirmation on that. Katey Rich: Yeah. I mean, we, I think we all remember like _West Side Story_ last year being this right around Thanksgiving premiere. Um, and you know, it wouldn't be a fun season if we didn't have one last mystery to look forward to. So, um, and, and one last thing I'll add while we're talking about festival season is that Damien will be at TIFF to kind of present some footage from _Babylon_. I think you and I both guess it might be what you saw, something close to it, maybe not revealing too much more, but, um, maybe by the time we talk next week, we'll know even more. Rebecca Ford: Those lucky festival attendees and their sneak peek, I'm so jealous. Katey Rich: Well, hello, Richard. You are back from Venice in, in a manner of speaking. You're in a, you're in a barto of, of a kind, maybe between Venice and Toronto right now. How you doing? Richard Lawson: Yeah. Buona notte or good morning, or I don't know when, what time it is. Um, but yeah, I'm in a sort of weird dream state, um, where everything is surreal, but also importantly, like _Bardo_ everything's about me. Katey Rich: Hmm that's right. Uh, that, that is what, what weeks of watching movies will teach you, I think. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Katey Rich: Um, well as listeners hear this, they have just heard, well, they've heard me in Rebecca talking about_ Babylon_, but before that they heard me and Rebecca and David talking about, um, what felt like the story of Venice and, Richard you are Chris Pine's stylist, I believe so I would like- Richard Lawson: Oh yeah. Katey Rich: Any forensic evidence that you have, you wanna share with us right now? Richard Lawson: He walked into my atelier, he said, give the Muriel Hemingway. Um, I obliged, uh, yeah, I thought he looked fun. I mean, I mean, look, you know, obviously Timmy Chalamet with the red backless pants suit thing, stole a lot of the accolades and then people were kind of scratching their heads at Chris Pine, but I think it was a necessary bit of levity for what was otherwise a very bizarre 24 ish hours for _Don't Worry Darling_. Katey Rich: Yeah. I mean, Richard, you were there in Venice. I don't know how much of this you witnessed firsthand, if any, but, uh, anything you would like to add to the _Don't Worry Darling_ discourse, which has gone through like four phases, uh, since we last talked. Richard Lawson: Yeah. I mean, I didn't go to the press conference or anything, so or the premiere, so I, I wasn't, I didn't bear witness to any of that. So I don't, unfortunately don't have any fun, juicy details about that, but I will say that I'm sure that the people who made the film feel differently, but it was kind of exciting undeniably to be there and to feel like people back home or elsewhere in the world were actually talking about this film festival. That in recent years has sometimes felt like you're, you're, you're fighting an uphill battle to get anyone to care. And look, I get it. These are movies that people aren't gonna see for a while. Well, in _Don't Worry Darling's_ case it's a few weeks, but like, you know, it can be tricky to turn people's heads to away from their lives to be like, Hey, come read about this cool thing that I'm, that I'm at, you know. Um, so that helped. And I think also, you know, uh, the Brendan Fraser of it all with _The Whale_, like, it just felt like a lot of eyes were on Venice this year. Um, which made it feel really exciting. Katey Rich: Yeah. Um, and I wanna go to the, um, the most recent thing that people's eyes are on, uh, which is _Blonde_, which yeah, um, is premiering pretty much as this episode is being released. I mean, I think going into the festival, that was the one that people kind of had the most, um, like the schadenfreude alert up for more so than _Don't Worry Darling_. Um, and so after that whole thing, how did _Blonde_ live up to those expectations? Richard Lawson: You know, it's interesting. I think people had been reading some tea leaves about, um,_ Blonde _premiering so late in the festival. You know, you would expect a movie of that kind of profile to be on the first weekend or, you know, Monday or something, but it's a Thursday premiere toward the end of the festival, uh, which tends to indicate not good things. So I went in with pretty low expectations and they were surpassed, I mean, definitely, you know. It's not a pleasant movie to watch. It's two hours and 46 minutes of Marilyn Monroe basically falling apart until she dies. We have troubled origin, you know, as a child for her that have, you know, this is all based on Joyce Carol Oates novel _Blonde,_ so it's not, we, they're not going for pure historical accuracy here. Um, it's much more of a movie about fame in general than it is specifically about Marilyn Monroe. She's just kind of the vessel for this really brutal graphic depiction of what fame can do to your mind, especially if you are already predisposed to have mental health problems and maybe addiction problems and, or, you know, I guess the question is what comes first. You know, which is it, does the fame cause that does it exacerbate it. And I don't know, I think Andrew Dominik, the director and writer, uh, producer, he, he's poking at that stuff in an interesting way. Um, Ana de Armas is giving a very fully committed, full throw performance. Um, you know, she doesn't sound like Marilyn Monroe because Marilyn Monroe didn't have a Cuban accent, but, but you know, more importantly, she gets the, the, the emotion. You know, you know, it's a lot of repetitive just like her crying or screaming or whatever, but, but, you know, it's a really breakneck thing from Ana de Armas and in my review. I, I, I sort of praise that stuff, but also have questions about whether or not the movie is kind of meta self-aware? You know, it's about people exploiting her, but is the movie also exploiting her, is... Katey Rich: Exploiting Marilyn or Ana de Armas or both? Richard Lawson: Uh, maybe both. I don't know. You know, I mean, there, there is one scene in particular that I won't spoil that I think is the reason why the movie has an NC 17 rating. You kind of wonder, like, okay, what, why textually is this in here? The movie really skirts a line, you know? And I, I think it, when it crosses it, it's mostly provocatively interesting. Maybe not every time, but I think that the reaction to that will certainly vary depending on who's watching it. Katey Rich: Do you think it is unpleasant to the point that people will generally not watch it? I mean, it'll be on Netflix in a few weeks. I think Richard Lawson: I, I th I, I think I could, because it's on Netflix, I could see people checking it out and turning it off after half an hour. Yeah. I mean, it's not, look, it's not like she's, you know, it's, it's not a torture porn kind of thing. It's just a really intense head space to be in for that for nearly three hours. Katey Rich: I mean, that kind of seems to be a theme of a lot of the movies at Venice. Um, I don't know where you wanna start _Bardo,_ _The Son_ or _The Whale_, all of them, from what I'm hearing seem to be a similar vibe of like, Ooh boy, buckle up for this one. Richard Lawson: Yeah. You know, it's really funny to be in this beautiful place, right by the beach, kind of whimsically, arriving on boats and then to go sit and see these long depressing things. Um, _Bardo_, I think, you know, that's, that is almost three hours as well. Uh it's you know, Alejandro González Iñárritu, uh, this is his like most personal film to date. It seems like he's borrowing a lot from his own life or his own musings on his career and his relationship to his native Mexico. Uh, and that's all worthy stuff and certainly as with all of his films, there are many interesting technical aspects to the film, but I think it doesn't quite hang together as a, a movie that you really feel. You know, I, it, it, it, it kind of winds up for the last 30, 40 minutes maybe being that sort of thing of like, wouldn't it be sad if I died? You know, like how would everyone react? Like very Tom Sawyer looking, you know, watching his own funeral. And there's something that is, I think, you know, a lot, I was not alone in this, but people saw as kind of being typically self involved, you know, and to put that in a movie that's, it's grueling to sit through just because it's so long. It's a tough sell and I think that, um, Netflix was really taken off guard by the reaction to it. I think they had thought it would be a lot more positive. Katey Rich: Well, we should stick on Netflix and talk about _White Noise,_ which, uh, David and Rebecca and I did talk about, um, a little bit, but you were actually there to see, I mean, it, it got the shortest standing ovation, Richard and I don't know what more scientific metric we could ask for, uh, in terms of how a movie was received. Richard Lawson: Uh, yeah. Well, I mean, that's, that maybe that was just first day people were like, oh, I don't, I wanna save the standing ovation for later. Katey Rich: I'm being sarcastic. I mean, the, the standing ovation meters really went haywire. Richard Lawson: Yeah. They don't- for the hundred times they don't really mean anything. Katey Rich: Yeah. Richard Lawson: It's just a combination of who's in the room and, you know, whatever, what kind of mood people are in. Everything gets a standing ovation. Yeah. Um, not of the press ratings, at the premieres. But _White Noise_ is tricky because it's, you know, it's this weird book that is beloved by, you know, some from 37 years ago and Baumbach seems to be one of the people who loves it. And I think in that sort of passion for the, for the material, this is his first time directing an adaptation of someone else's work. Um, he gets a little bit, he loses himself a little bit and you're kind of just like, all right. I mean, there's good filmmaking here and good acting like Adam Driver's great. But like, what was the point? Like why this you know? Whereas so many other of Baumbach's movies feel like it's him, it's his, it's his mind, it's his ideas. Um, you know, really put on screen, whether that's the funny effect to sad effect to both. Um, and this just feels kind of flat. Um, despite it being a really expensive production. I mean I think the, the, the rumor I heard in Venice was that this was over a hundred million dollars. And to think of Baumbach doing that, you know, where, you know, I was saying to a colleague of ours, um, there that like, or he was saying to me that like, the salaries for the actors alone would, would constitute the whole budget for a previous Baumbach back movie. You know, so for all that bombast and the sort of the size of it, um, the movie was a little cold to the touch. Katey Rich: I mean, it kind of almost feels like, you know, it's gonna be at the New York Film Festival, so it's, it's not done yet. It almost feels like, oh yeah, that happened. It feels like it's kinda ancient history by now, weirdly. Richard Lawson: Yeah. I mean, I think it's really good and important for that movie that it plays another big festival. Um, you know, we've seen it in years past where something doesn't really hit the, the zeitgeist on its first try and then somehow you know, it really takes off. You know, I think a, a really interesting example of few years ago was _Brooklyn._ You know, that, that Saoirse Ronan movie that premiered very quietly at Sundance and then months later, I think was at Toronto and maybe New York and it went exploded, you know? And I don't know if I see that trajectory exactly for _White Noise_, but I, I think it has, um, it's not set in New York City, but Baumbach is of course a quintessentially New York filmmaker and, and maybe the audience there will be more responsive to it. Katey Rich: Well, I'm curious about that and this is different because it was received well in Venice, but _The Whale_ is on its way to Toronto and Brennan Fraser, I think was such a, like, darling of the festival. Not the _Don't Worry Darling,_ the darling. Um, people are really rooting for him and, you know, there was this video of him responding to his standing ovation. I know you're not a huge fan of _The Whale_ and you can talk about that, but it does seem like it's kind of heading into Toronto to be like, hello audiences, come embrace this star really stretching himself and you know, having his moment. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Embrace him and also let's solidify what it seems like the one that he's gonna get an Oscar nomination, if not a win, you know? Katey Rich: Yeah. Richard Lawson: I would predict him to win right now. Um, the combination of, of what he's doing in the film, how it was received, he had this very emotional reaction, um, at, at the, at the, the, the standing ovation, you know, he just, you know, he wasn't weeping, but he was tearful and he seemed really grateful. And he'd said some things, um, I think at the press conference about how much this meant to him and I think people can really feel that ardency in the movie. Um, I don't care for the film at all. I think it's um, well I think it, one confirms fears that people had had before the movie came out, people who were familiar with the play or not about how it would depict people who are obese and I think it unfortunately confirms a lot of those fears. And, um, but beyond that, I think it's also just weirdly made. I think there's a terrible score that really does a lot of indicating toward what we're supposed to be feeling in a way that feels very unsophisticated for Darren Aronofsky, even though, yes, he is kind of a- he he's he's, he's not a minimalist. He's not subtle, but like- Katey Rich: He knows his way around a score usually at least. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, he can't do much with the visuals because it's all in one, almost really one room and in this little apartment in Idaho. Um, there's some interesting camera work here and there, but like, I think I said in my review, like, because he didn't have much of a play space for like all of his technical indulgences and all that, he really pours that into this prosthetic situation happening with Fraser, and I think the intensity of that, of like the kind of highwire act of can we pull this off really steals focus from what we should be really paying attention to, which is kind of the humanity of the character. Um, and then you add this turgid score and some kind of stilted writing, and I just, it really, really did not work for me. Katey Rich: Yeah. I feel like the backlash cycle of that film is really not even close to begun. Um, and it's gonna get really intense. Like before people see it and after people manage to see it. Um, I mean, I think I would agree with you that Brendan Fraser, uh, I mean, seems very deservingly to be in a really good position, but yeah. Richard, what about Colin Farrell? What about Colin Farrell? Richard Lawson: Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, I wanna talk about him, but I will say one last thing about _The Whale_, which is I, I was surprised by how many raptures reviews it got. You know, I walked out and I said to a colleague like, Ooh, that was bad and he was like, yeah, that was really bad. I kind of thought that other people would feel similarly, but then the reviews came out a day later and I was like, oh, okay. And I think that what I'm, what I'm curious to see happen with that is, you know, to the small handful of people who, who care about this stuff and follow this stuff like that is gonna put like kind of an intense schism between critic and viewer and people who pay attention to such things, because they're gonna be like, you know, if they find the movie offensive, which I think a lot of people are likely to, they're gonna say, well, what the hell was all were all those rave reviews, you know? Katey Rich: Yeah. Richard Lawson: And I think that that's gonna be an interesting disconnect to kind of look at it. It sort of happened with _Joker._ Obviously that worked out well for _Joker_, um, at the Oscars, but anyway. But yes, uh, Colin Farrell is in _The Banshees of Inisherin_, um, which is a Martin McDonagh piece that is much similar, more similar to some of his plays than it is to his past three films, uh, which are, you know, American set, um, kind of gangster movies or no, I guess _In Bruges_ is not American, but the other two are. Katey Rich: Yeah, I feel like _In Bruges_ has been a comparison I've seen in reviews. Richard Lawson: Well, because it's Farrell and it's Brendan Gleeson, but this is not that sort of hit men with consciences, you know, kind of debating and shooting and stuff. This is, you know, set in the 1920s on this little island off the coast of Ireland and it has a little bit of violence in it, but it's mostly just this wistful, maybe even more melancholy kind of story about a friendship that's fracturing and all of these people as the Irish Civil War rages on the the main island, um, kind of try to figure out like what their place in the world is and is this fractured friendship a metaphor for the Civil War? I think it is to some extent. Um, you know, it's a lonely, but funny textured little film, and that's really anchored by this incredibly expressive and intelligent performance by Colin Farrell who has been so great for so long, but I think this feels like, you know, he's been working for, you know, 20 plus years now and has never had an Oscar nomination and, um, has deserved them in the past. Certainly _In Bruges,_ you mentioned, _The Lobster_ and, uh, I think, I think he's has a good shot of getting it here. The movie was really, really well received. Katey Rich: Yeah. I mean, I actually, I caught up with _The Batman_ recently, um, just because I hadn't seen it and he's like, he's very over the top. I imagine the performance is very different from _Banchees_, but he's having a good year. Like it, it really feels like all the, all the pieces are finally coming into place for him. And like you say, there's so much good will toward him at this point, which like, he was the bad boy for a while. Like, it's been a long road to get here. Richard Lawson: He was, and yet now he seems to have mellowed out and he's, I think he's might be sober and he he's very, just like... I was talking to someone at the festival who, who really would know they, they work at Searchlight. Um, and they were, I was like, is he, I've heard, he's kind of just like a good guy, like kind of a... he was like, nope, he really is, like that is very true. And yeah, I think that's evidenced by the fact that so many interesting directors, Yorgos Lanthimos, you know, Matt Reeves and obviously McDonagh has worked with him several times. Like he, he, he interesting people wanna work with him and I think that's a testament to not only his talent, but also probably, um, that he's a good person to have on the team. Katey Rich: Yeah. Um, from David and Rebecca, it, they seemed pretty clear that _Women Talking_ was the Telluride movie that like the most people were just like, couldn't stop talking about, was there a clear movie like that in Venice? Richard Lawson: _Tár_. Yeah, I think _Tár_ was, yeah- Katey Rich: We let you talk about _Tár_ already, Richard. Richard Lawson: Yeah. I, I think I only heard like one or two mild things about that movie, nothing negative. Katey Rich: Yeah. Richard Lawson: So that was certainly a big one. Um, and _Banchees _was up there. You know, it's funny, I, I, I actually did get a chance to see it before the festival, um, and so I wasn't in the room when the movie screened in Venice, but the more I, but I, but that also did allow me some time, like a week or so to think about the movie and the more I thought about it, the bigger it got in my head and the more sort of consequential, you know, it got. And, and I was really pleasantly surprised to see how well it was received, because I thought it would, people would appreciate it and then move on, but people were really kept talking about it. Katey Rich: Wait, so speaking of surprises though, I had talked to you a little bit about _The Son_ at some point before the reviews for that came out and knew that you were not especially into it. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Katey Rich: But the reviews for that were warmer than I was expecting when they broke. Um, today as we record this. Richard Lawson: I was flabbergasted by that. I think it's a, not a good movie and I think it, you know, people, obviously there were a lot of eyes on this one because Florian Zeller made _The Father_ couple years ago, won- that movie won a couple of big Oscars and- Katey Rich: Really good movie. Richard Lawson: Um, you know, this is based on another of Zeller's plays. Um, but this one feels stilted where _The Father_ felt really inventive and interesting, incredible, and I think maybe it has to do with lived experience? Like, I don't know, this is a movie about a depressed teenage boy and, and his parents trying to figure out what to do. Um, and so it it's kind of an issue movie, but I, I, it, it weirdly feels very broad in general and not specific. And, uh, whereas _The Father_ felt really detailed. Um, and, uh, you know, so that's a problem, but I think also honestly, like there, the difference of a movie being set in England, uh, and in the United States, like _The Son_ is, and this being a European director, the language is really stilted. I mean, you have a teenage boy saying, I feel as if I'm going crazy and you're like, no, it's not what a kid would say in 2022. Katey Rich: It sounds like _3 Billboards_ all over again. That movie drove me crazy with it's non specific Americanness. Richard Lawson: Definitely some of that. I mean, I think that's, you know, McDonagh going back to, to Ireland and, and the movie working so much better for me. Uh, I think, you know, I'm not saying that directors have to stay in their home turf for their home continent, but in _The Son_ it's, it's pretty glaring that this script did not get it a kind of update or an Americanization. I mean, I was joking to people there that I was like, I kept expecting him to say like this teenage boy to say, make love. You know, it has this very like Woody Allen seventies kind of pattern to it, even though it's about this heavy stuff. So, yeah, I was pretty bummed by that one. I mean, I think, you know, Laura Dern is good, Hugh Jackman feels a little at sea. Katey Rich: And he's getting, he's getting some praise, so... Richard Lawson: Yeah, no, I mean, look, you know, these all things are, are, you know, I'm seeing them in certain weird circumstances sometimes and under stress and the only movie I think that was outright pretty much universally panned was _Bardo_. Um, I did see a couple positive things about that movie, but that was really the, uh, if you wanna like name a kind of a flop of the festival, I think it was a really high profile one in _Bardo_. Katey Rich: Apparently it's defenders are coming outta the woodwork at Telluride, so that story might not be done yet either. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. Katey Rich: Well, we'll catch up next week, um, from Toronto. Um, and we, you know, we did some previewing of that earlier, but is there anything especially you wanna flag that, um, you expect we'll be talking a lot about next week? Richard Lawson: Uh, I don't, you know, I'm sure you guys have talked about _The Inspection_, um, which is... it's not technically the opening night movie at Toronto tonight, but it, it is on opening night, you know? Katey Rich: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Um, and that's an A24 film. It's getting a big thing at New York Film Festival. So like, and, and I don't really know anything about it. You know, I- there's a trailer out, but like, it, it kind of came outta nowhere like I feel like a few weeks ago. Katey Rich: Yeah. And we hear from a lot of people who like whispers of people who have seen stuff and that's one that still really under wraps at this point. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. So, so I'm very curious about that just because it's suddenly this kind of new player on, on the scene. And then, you know, I, I think we were talking, I was talking with, you know, Oscary colleagues in Venice about like, have we seen Best Picture yet? And I said, no, I don't think that that has screened. You know, maybe it's a Toronto, maybe it's not anywhere. Maybe it's _Babylon._ Katey Rich: Maybe it's _Babylon_. Yeah. Richard Lawson: But I think the more and more we talked about that and speculated about it, the more and more intrigued and excited I got see- about seeing the _Fablemans_ on Saturday. I think that I think, you know, even if it's just kind of a nice family drama or whatever, like whatever, whatever shape it ends up taking, um, I think it's just, it's such a huge question mark. Spielberg so rarely goes to film festivals, as we talked about a couple weeks ago, so that kind of energy for a Spielberg film should be really interesting. And it's so personal, allegedly, that no, I would say that is the number one with a bullet like gotta see it run home, review it right away just to kind of hop into that whole narrative. Katey Rich: Yeah. Um, well, speaking of, of villains from the 2022 movie, _The Batman_, I'm very excited for Paul Dano specifically in that movie. Richard Lawson: Yes. Katey Rich: The whole cast is pretty great, but, um, you know, I guess that's my theme for this episode. Richard Lawson: Yeah, yeah, no, I, I think that we'll, you know, we'll definitely have, I'll have coverage of that as quick as possible if people wanna be up late or early the next morning. Katey Rich: Yeah, it's the hot ticket for that Saturday. I mean, it's premiering the same night as _Glass Onion_, which is nuts. So, um, a lot of, um, people can't do both, but that it's gonna be a big night. Stay glued to Twitter on Saturday night if you're gonna pick a night. Richard Lawson: I don't think I've seen a Saturday at, at TIFF like that in a long time. Um, if ever, and, um, I mean, that's, it's frustrating, but it's also really exciting. Katey Rich: You're skipping a party that we are hosting with the cast of _Knives Out_ 2 to go see the Fablemans. That's the kind decisions that are being made. Richard Lawson: And I'm skipping the Sony Pictures Classics dinner, which is always so fun. And do you know, I mean, you know, it is a really big deal to give up free food at these things. Like an actual sit down meal? Katey Rich: I know, like you're not going to eat all day, what are you doing. Richard Lawson: That is rare. Yeah. So, um, but you know, look Spielberg calls and, and when he calls you gotta answer, so. Katey Rich: That does it for today's episode, we'll be back next week. Our Tuesday episode will be an Emmy's rundown because we did not talk about the Emmys at all in this episode, but they're coming. They'll be on, uh, Monday, September 12th and so next Tuesday we'll have our post Emmy's show. And then the Thursday after that, um, more talk about festivals, all things happening at once. In the meantime, find us at vanityfair.com. We have our Venice and Telluride live blog. There will also be a TIFF live blog by the time you hear this. We are covering it from every possible angle. Um, and you can find, um, David and Rebecca's amazing Telluride coverage, and Richard's amazing Venice coverage. You can find us on Twitter @HWD or on our own. I am @kateyrich and David? David Canfield: @davidcanfield97 Katey Rich: and Rebecca? Rebecca Ford: @beccamford. Katey Rich: And I'll speak for Richard, he is @rilaws. You can also sign up to text with us at joinsubtext.com/littlegoldmen, or text 917-809-7096, your festival season questions and _Don't Worry Darling _conspiracy theories have been very welcomed, please keep them coming. Our editor and producer is Brett Fuchs and this week's award for the level of attention we hope you are paying to this podcast goes to me. JFK level conspiracy theories.