Josh Wigler: Hello, and welcome back to _Still Watching_, the television podcast from _Vanity Fair_. We cover entire seasons of the hottest shows on TV, and right now, we are diving deep into _House of the Dragon_, the _Game of Thrones_ prequel series on HBO. I'm Josh Wigler, and here to discuss _House of the Dragon_, episode eight, it's Richard Lawson. Richard, let's- we gotta wag our tongues and talk _House of the Dragon_ this week. Richard Lawson: [laughs] Yeah. Lot- lot of tongue wagging to be done. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: Um, uh, lot- lot of kids to sort out. Josh Wigler: [laughs] Richard Lawson: Um- Josh Wigler: Yeah, sure. Richard Lawson: You know? Uh, new actors yet again. Uh, those poor other kids only got a really short time [laughs] on the show. Josh Wigler: It was brief. It was brief. Uh, yeah. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. But impactful. Josh Wigler: Uh, yes. Uh, we're- we are cycling through actors very quickly on this show, uh, but certainly, uh, Aemond himself made a, made a real impression, uh, last week. But, we've got a whole new crop of actors playing these characters as, uh, we have time jumped yet again. Stop us if you've heard this one. It appears we are six years beyond Driftmark at this point. Um, is your nose starting to bleed, Richard? Are we playing by the Lost rules here? Richard Lawson: [laughs] Josh Wigler: Are we just bat- do we need to get some sort of frozen donkey wheel back on its hinge in order to stop all of this? Richard Lawson: Uh, yeah, I didn't really like the polar bear in this sce- in this episode. Josh Wigler: [laughs] Richard Lawson: Um, [laughs]. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Yeah, no. I- I-, you know, I- I can kind of foresee some backlash against ano- yet another time jump, but I kind of like that it's experimenting with like novelistic dimensions, you know. Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: Like, decade spanning kind of narrative. You do wonder like, "Okay, if they're jumping this many decades in the first season, we're not even, you know, we still have a couple episodes left, what is the next season gonna look like? Will it- will it slow down? Will it kind of take on the same shape? Like, how far are we gonna go into this- this stuff, um, into these many years to come before Daenerys arrives? Uh, so I'm- I'm curious about it, but like I- I- I don't know. I like kind of filling in the blanks about what happened in- in- in the spaces between [inaudible 00:02:18]. Josh Wigler: You like- you like that being left to us, the- the viewer- Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: Rather than seeing that. Richard Lawson: Unless there's like big stuff that you know from the book that is like really worthy of being on film and that now isn't because they've skipped over it- Josh Wigler: Sure. Richard Lawson: I think otherwise, it feels like- I- I like- you know, this- kind- kinda how like normal life works is that you have big moments every couple years, and then there's a lot of just sort of regular life in between. Josh Wigler: Yeah. I think that there's definitely, you know, there's material that's left on the floor that I would love to have seen, but I think you could say that about almost any adaptation anyway, um, and I think especially with the book that is being adapted, it's less the book that's being adapted and more a period of fake history that's being adapted. Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: And so, I do think we're getting the relevant bits. You know, I could complain about certain things, um, here and there, but by and large, I do think we're getting served the most important stuff, um, and this was a- a really important jump into the future because somehow, someway, Viserys Targaryen has held on all these years and maybe, Richard, just maybe, he is letting go by the end of this episode. At the very least, he is acknowledging the inevitability of his looming demise, uh, during that feast, uh, where we get the strong toast and everything is peaceful until it very much is not. um, what did you- what was your sort of vibe? I'm trying to be careful around this. What was your vibe about Viserys in this episode in the way that the episode was sort of structuring Paddy Considine's place in the proceedings? Richard Lawson: Well, I mean, hard to watch. You know, any time there's a character who's in such physical torment or, you know, w- with a hacking cough, or, in this case- Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Half rotted face, you know, and also, you know, probably cough, um, it- it's- it's tough. And, like, you know, I'm sure that Paddy Considine like that's a big acting challenge to sort of sell that credibly, and I think he does. Um, I think there is something potent and almost poignant about like Viserys', you know, survival well past what we thought it was gonna be, and probably what people around him in the show think it's gonna- thought it was gonna be. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: In that like all of these characters have had a sort of delayed, you know, a- a delayed moment where they're- they're gonna kind of spring into action. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: You know? Because, presumably, all of this is really gonna get going once Viserys dies and R- Rhaenyra tries to take possession of the throne, and then everyone challenges it, and everyone's been waiting about that- for that for like 15 years now, longer. You know? And, I think there's something kind of interesting about these characters, you know, Viserys' offspring, grandkids, children, other relatives kind of having waited in anticipation for so long that that's just become life. And, now, they're finally, finally way past where they thought it was gonna be confronted with like okay, now things are moving. And, I thought that was an interesting way to position this season, and we only have two more episodes left that like, this is kind of about a lead up to. It's not about the actual necessarily the, uh, s- the events themselves, I guess. Josh Wigler: Right. I think it's a really instructive episodes, uh, episode in a lot of ways. I think one of the ways in which it's an instructive episode is it's, you know, we're using this matter of who will succeed Corlys Velaryon as the Lord of the Tides, should it come to pass that he does not survive his injury we hear about. We do not see. Um, this is a great way of sort of, you know, playing out what this drama could look like if there is this question of who's going to be the ruler of Westeros, uh, who is going to be sitting on the Iron Throne once Viserys is gone. And then, the other way in which it's instructive is beyond settling this matter of who will sit on the Driftwood Throne, uh, it is really quite literally what will happen when Viserys Targaryen leaves the room, right? Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: You know, he's in the room. He's in control over this, uh, this last supper of sorts, I think is a- is a- an easy analog for- for how this is- is laid out. Um, what happens when he leaves? Any fragile peace, is that going to last? Or, is someone like an Aemond Targaryen just going to say the wrong quip at the wrong time and break that peace? So, I think that there are a lot of ways in which this episode feels like the stakes that we know exist and have been warned about for so long from Otto Hightower to everyone in between, um, that we are now seeing like what this might look like, and that it feels really imminent. And, I know we've said that a bunch, you know, and I know that the show has sort of positioned us, uh, you know, when we- when we moved on from- from young Rhaenyra and young Alicent deeper into the future, that, "Oh, my God, I can't believe this is all still going on." But, it really looks like we are on the precipice of this thing popping off by the end of this episode. Richard Lawson: Yeah. And, I think we're finding characters, I mean, at least Alicent and Rhaenyra, sad about that. You know, because- Josh Wigler: Yes. Right. Richard Lawson: As much as there's been tension between their families and as- you know, violent at times, tensions, I think they maybe were kind of hoping that like the shoe would never drop, you know, because it hadn't dropped for so long, and they got complacent, and- and you see on, uh, I think, you know, both great performances, um, you know, you see on their faces like this kind of sudden like return to dread that they haven't maybe felt in- as powerfully in- in many years. Um, and, I- yeah, I think that's- that's really well synthesized in this episode and also gives us a lot of, um, you know, sort of thematic satisfaction, I think, to what we've watched thus far. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Like- like, this show is actually really was about these people, this season, anyway. Um, it was about the throne and the succession and all that, but really, it was about kind of spending time with people in this sort of liminal state. Josh Wigler: Yeah. I mean, if we're gonna get into a, you know, a big war, heavy storyline, I think you do wanna be invested [laughs] in who's on either side of the aisle. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: And, you can talk all you want, and I think people would, you know, I- I- it would be, you know, probably something that's, you know, worth a conversation about of have we spent too much time in- in this lead up, in this build up, or is it the exact right amount of time to get you as nervous as these characters? Uh, you know, I mean, it's taking longer for us, uh, than we expected. [laughs] Imagine living in their shoes, uh, in Alicent and Rhaenyra's shoes. So, I feel like art imitating life, or life imitating art in- in that sense. We'll talk about it all, it's Lord of the Tides, episode eight. We are going to recap it scene by scene. Of course, we would love to hear feedback from all of you as well, if you wanna write in. Stillwatchingpod@gmail.com. Send it in. Stillwatchingpod@gmail.com. We will dissect the Lord of the Tides right after this quick break. All right, Richard. We are in it now. _House of the Dragon_, episode eight, The Lord of the Tides, directed by Geeta V. Patel, written by Eileen Shim, and we begin, you know, physically where we left off, uh, but six years down the line as we are once again at Driftmark, and we are hearing about an off-screen injury. Uh, Rhaenys and Corlys have been, uh, estranged from one another for some time. It seems like the ways that they have dealt with the apparent death of their son so quickly after the actual death of their daughter, they are processing it different- differently. The Sea Snake has gone back to war, and Rhaenys is sitting on the Driftwood throne. And, during this period of war, the Sea Snake has suffered some sort of grievous injury, Richard. Richard Lawson: Mm-hmm. Josh Wigler: Uh, stabbed in the neck. He has a fever. He's on his way, but everyone's wondering are we actually going to see the Sea Snake, or are we just going to greet an empty ship when it comes into port? Richard Lawson: Yes, which, you know, I think this episode doesn't- uh, it- there's no like title card that says six years later. You know, like it- it's- it's- it- it kinda fools you into thinking we're picking up right where ended, uh, and then through context clues, we have to understand. And, I think it's a really interesting choice to have this major character have this big offscreen thing happen, um, uh, you know, fate unknown, um, because, you know, I guess it- I don't know, it kind of helps further, uh, illustrate how precarious all of this stuff is, and like there is stuff happening outside of these castles that have, you know, major impact on- on these peoples' lives. and, um, I don't know, I'm curious because aren't we sort of supposed to think that this guy's getting a spinoff? [laughs] So, like- Josh Wigler: Yeah, right. [laughs] Richard Lawson: What does that mean? Is it a prequel? Is it about this advent- this misadventure that ends in injury? I don't know. Josh Wigler: Yeah. So, I- I believe that the- the common thinking is the Sea Snake show would be the adventures of, uh, the young Sea Snake. Richard Lawson: Oh, okay. Josh Wigler: Uh, you know, the- the young Indiana Jones of it all. Uh, so we would- we would see his exploits as he has traveled far and wide. Uh, you know, further than any known man in, uh, in the world of Ice and Fire, all the way to Asshai and beyond, maybe. Uh, so I think we would see a lot of his- his, um, his voyages through- through that show. I've wondered, um, I don't remember if we talked about this last week, but with Laenor being left alive, you know, could there be some sort of, uh, secret lean or spinoff, I think would be- would be pretty fun, or some way to maybe, you know, uh, you know, tell a story across two points in time, I think could be- could be fun. Um, but as far as we know, uh, it is sort of like that Avengers Endgame thing where you're like, "But Black Widow's coming out. She's gonna be fine." And, then it's like, um, I don't know." Richard Lawson: Right. Yeah. Josh Wigler: Uh, you know, we could be in a- a similar situation with the Sea Snake. Richard Lawson: Yeah, and, you know, dep- depending on what he- what happens to him in this show's world, like, I don't know, there's something about the sort of the Lord of the Tides that sort of like, you know, there's inevitable ebb and flow and, you know, uh, high and low, and- and I- I just think it's- there's something kinda poetic about him offscreen on yet another one of his sea skirmishes, you know, it finally caught up with him. You know, like he- he- it's sort of a testament to his sort of stubborn nature, um, that he would be back at it yet again and finally, you know, um, he doesn't win. Josh Wigler: Right. That being said, I think it would be pretty disappointing if, uh, Steve Toussaint just kind of left the show. Uh, and we didn't- we didn't get some sort of resolution there. Richard Lawson: Oh, I- I don't think that's what's gonna happen. [laughs] Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Yeah, yeah. Josh Wigler: Uh, so, if- if someone out there's like, "I'd be really frustrated about that," I'm right there with you. I would be frustrated as well. I think we're gonna be okay. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: I think we're- I think we'll have a little more to do in that storyline. Um, we will not have more to do with his brother, uh, by the end of this episode, but it is a big one for Vaemon Velaryon, who is taking the news of his brother's, uh, potentially fatal would as a signal to start making some moves of his own. And, this was seeded at least as far back as last week, Richard, when he was giving the eulogy for Laena and talking about how the- the blood of House of Velaryon, uh, the true blood of House of Velaryon runs deep as he's just eyeing Rhaenyra and the kids, and he's really all about that this time around. He's telling Rhaenys that he should be the one to step up, uh, Luke Velaryon, he is the- the second son of Rhaenyra and Laenor, ostensibly, uh, and he is supposed to take the Driftwood Throne. But, Vaemon is saying that this should not be a matter of, uh, the history books, which is what my brother cares about. This should be a matter of blood and what's gonna happen to the Velaryon line. We're just gonna sit aside and watch it get snuffed out by House Strong? So he's, you know, speaking a really big game, that if he were to speak this publicly, [laughs] as we've come to find out, might be a huge issue. Um, but he feels like he is backed by the current state of King's Landing, which we'll come to see is really largely dominated by the Hightowers right now. Richard Lawson: Yeah. And, people, look, people feel emboldened to speak out against things when they think that the power structure is weakened, you know. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: And, we have a king who is basically wasted away and, yes, his wife and his, you know, hand are- are sort of running the show, and they're not, you know, they're formidable, but like I think you see like the cracks in Viserys' hold on things, uh, very clearly here, where someone like Vaemon, granted, he's not in his presence, but like he's with his cousin, uh, and says these things out loud because it's like, "Well, what is he gonna do to me?" You know? Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: And then we kind of later find out what someone does to him. [laughs] Josh Wigler: Yeah, [laughs] exactly. Uh, I do like the- uh, that the Queen Who Never Was, Rhaenys, uh, uh, is saying to him, "This kind of talk, my cousin would have your tongue." And, I'm sitting here being like, "Oh, she knows her cousin so well." Uh, [laughs] she- she- really knows him very well. Richard Lawson: [laughs] That's true. Yeah. Josh Wigler: Yeah. It's like the first thing he says. Um, meanwhile, back on Dragonstone, we are six years into the marriage of Rhaenyra and Daemon. Uh, Daemon is going, uh, hunting for dragon eggs. He's very thrilled to see that Syrax, that's Rhaenyra's dragon, has produced a fresh clutch of eggs. I just wish that Dr. Ian Malcolm was in this scene, Richard, when Daemon procures the eggs. I feel like he would have a memorable one liner to say in this moment in time. Richard Lawson: Or, Ellen Ripley. You know, for- for a different genre turn. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: You know? [laughs] Josh Wigler: That would be more dragon fire would be involved, yeah. Uh, that'd be very, very good. Uh, so we also are now getting word about what's happened to the Sea Snake, to the Dragonstone side of the line, and Daemon is hearing, um, from his daughter, from Baela, who is currently with Rhaenys on, uh, Driftmark. Um, you know, clearly just sort of learning the ropes and, uh, potentially being groomed as Rhaenys wants her, uh, wants Laena's line to be the one that continues over Driftmark. Seems like this matter is really unsettled, right? She has the thing that she wants. Her husband has what he wants, and Daemon has his own agenda as well. But, Baela being there is able to get the word out to Daemon and Rhaenyra. So, they're now caught up on okay, there's some drama here, and I guess we gotta get back into the drama. Richard Lawson: For my own purposes, I wanna clarify this. Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: Baela- Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: Is both Rhaenyra's cousin and stepdaughter. Josh Wigler: Correct. Richard Lawson: Okay. Josh Wigler: Uh, so we have- so- so Daemon's daughter, uh, is Baela. Richard Lawson: Right, from Laena. Josh Wigler: From Laena, Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: Uh, and, uh, now Rhaenyra is her stepmother as well. It is- it is hard to track this family tree. And it- this episode is not making it much easier, Richard. Richard Lawson: Well, just 'cause they keep marrying each other, and so you're like stepmom and cousin. Okay. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: Got it, yeah. Josh Wigler: Yeah. By the end of this episode, um, we are gonna have Baela and Rhaena are going to be betrothed to their cousins/stepbrothers. Uh, so- Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: This is gonna- that's gonna be a whole mess of things. The resume is packed. Richard Lawson: It's a lot, yeah. Josh Wigler: It's a lot. It's a lot. Uh, so, we see that, uh, that- that Jace is trying to learn.... He's obviously older. We're six years down the line, so we've got new actors playing Jace and- and Luke. Uh, Harry Collett is playing Jace, and he's learning High Valyrian. He's trying to, uh, you know, get himself ready for the day that he one day potentially will be the king of Westeros. Uh, he is not doing so well with his Valyrian lessons. Rhaenyra says, "You're not supposed to learn it in a day unless you plan on deposing me." Uh, and I think like the audience might be like given the way that this show goes, I don't know. Richard Lawson: Hmm. Yeah. Josh Wigler: Maybe. [laughs] It's possible. Yeah. Richard Lawson: It is funny that, uh, you know, and this is- this bor- is borne out throughout the episode, and certainly last week too, like, that Rhaenyra, who we've- when we first met her, was the fiery kinda transgressive one, and Alicent was the meek, sort of, you know, polite one and sort of did as she was told. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: That they- that- that now Rhaenyra's sons are sort of more dutiful like good, upstanding boys, and Alicent's kids are like a nightmare. [laughs] Like, you know, it's- it's just a funny reversal of like, uh, is it- it's a pretty like good shorthand for like generational difference, you know. Josh Wigler: Totally. Yeah. Richard Lawson: Um, but, also, I think that the Valyrian, the struggling with that, is like maybe there's some sort of faint implication that like because he's not full Velaryon, you know- Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: He has the sort of more like st- you know, salt of the earth, strong g- genes in him, and so this stuff doesn't come as naturally to him. Josh Wigler: Yeah. If he'd had his- his father, if he had had the Velaryon blood- Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: Uh, who knows if these, uh, if these lessons would be taking, uh, more easily. Uh, I feel like Valyrian is probably just a really hard language to learn would be my guess, um, uh- Richard Lawson: Oh, yeah, yeah. Like English, [laughs] from e- everyone who doesn't speak English n- natively says that it's probably one of the hardest languages to learn. Josh Wigler: Yeah. You can, I believe, I- I think it is still, uh, something you can do. Uh, it was on Duolingo once upon a time, uh, so. Richard Lawson: Oh, really? [inaudible 00:18:18] Josh Wigler: Yeah, maybe an off season project for us, Richard. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: And then, next, we, uh, next season, when we come back for season two, we can do half the podcast in Valyrian together. Richard Lawson: Oh, perfect, from the _Game of Thrones_ cruise, where that's all they speak, right? Yeah. Josh Wigler: Yes. Yeah. I think that's gonna be great. Uh, so Daemon comes to Rhaenyra with a note about what Vaemon is planning, uh, and it turns out that, uh, Rhaenys is going to be flying to court, uh, to give her side of things, uh, and Rhaenyra feels like, "Well, she's gotta be on our side about this, right?" And, Daemon's like, "Well, she does think we killed her son." Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: Uh, and Rhaenyra's like, "That's a interesting point." Uh, this might be a difficult situation. Um, they're gonna have to go to King's Landing and- and sort this out themselves. Uh, also worth noting, when- when Daemon and Rhaenyra make the choice to go to King's Landing, Daemon puts his hand on Rhaenyra's belly. She is pregnant, uh, at this moment in time. The two of them, Rhaenyra and Daemon, have two children already that we will see in this episode, and there is a third on the way. Richard Lawson: That's five kids for Rhaenyra. No, six. Six. Josh Wigler: It's a lot of kids, yes. Richard Lawson: Right? Josh Wigler: It's six. It would be- it would be her sixth, uh, sixth child right now. Richard Lawson: Gotcha. Wow. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Uh, and then there's the step siblings. It's a- there's a huge family, huge family. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: Uh, the Targaryens. Richard Lawson: And, now they're all coming of age, which is when things get dangerous. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Indeed. Uh, so we do see them arrive in King's Landing, uh, and it is there first time, uh, in King's Landing in many years. It seems like it might even be their first time since they left, uh, since Rhaenyra left for Dragonstone in the first place, and there's like no one there to greet them. Uh, we're gonna later hear, uh, during the small council in a- in a moment, uh, Otto Hightower be like, "Did you, uh, you know, have the greeting party that's fitting of their station ready to go?" Richard Lawson: Right. Right. Josh Wigler: And, the answer is yeah, I guess what's fitting of their station is three people. Richard Lawson: Right. Right. Nothing- nothing grand, nothing warm. Just a- a clear, you know, statement of, uh, of feeling [laughs] about- about them being there. Josh Wigler: Yeah. I think a lot of the episode, Richard, I- I'd be- I'd be curious for your take. It- it feels to me a lot of like Rhaenyra recognizing, "I've been gone for a long time. People have forgotten me. Um, the, you know, the Vipers have been able to sort of sink their teeth into this place while I've been gone. Do they- does anyone even want me here, and do I even wanna be here myself?" Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: A stranger in a strange land and all. Richard Lawson: I think the latter question is the big one in this episode, especially this scene later when she's sitting on her father's bed kind of weeping. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: It's like, "Wait, why did I want this? Like, should I just go home? Should I have come here at all?" I think she knows, unfortunately, that by showing up, you know, um, that she has re-entered herself [inaudible 00:21:02] into the game, you know. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: And, um, uh, uh, look, that's not to say that had they just hid- hid out in Dragonstone for the whole- like, someone woulda come for them. You know? Like, they were- they were gonna be a threat no matter what. She wasn't out completely, but like she's now right back in the center of it, and you see all of the- the time that's passed. It's like she's gotten used to not being in it, and it probably is scary and- and whatever else to be back in it. Josh Wigler: Yeah. And, it's pretty clear pretty quickly that the- the situation has changed greatly. Um, Daemon is going to call Alicent on this, uh, in a little while, but a lot of the- the Targaryen imagery has been stripped in favor of the symbol of the seven, uh, you know, the- the- the great religion of Westeros, of so much of- of Westeros, um, that that is what is, uh, you see like the star emblazoned on so many different corners of, uh, of the castle, of the red keep. Uh, and so it's- it's almost, it's like literally unrecognizable to these two Targaryens as they're coming back for the first time, and even in the small council, you know, much is the same. Lord Beesbury is still here, and he's still just rambling and making no sense. Um, Otto is still here. Otto is still whispering sweet nothings into the ear of the council, except that he is able to do it a little bit loudly. You know, he's able to be a little more full volume as he and Alicent are really the ones who seem to be running things at this point. We have yet to see Viserys at this point in the episode, but in the small council scene, Alicent is really in that top chair. Richard Lawson: Right, yeah. It's like, you know, Batman begins, p- t- the board running Wayne Enterprises. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: And then Bruce shows up, and they're like, "Oh, right, you." [laughs] Josh Wigler: Right, yes. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: Um, yeah. Viserys, you could forgive if he was asleep in one of the chairs, uh, at the boardroom, I feel like, at this point. Richard Lawson: [laughs] [inaudible 00:22:45] Yeah. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Um, so we're gonna see Viserys now, uh, as Rhaenyra and Daemon... Oh, really quickly, there is this moment that I- I appreciated greatly as a- as a book reader. Uh, Alicent is going to be, uh, leaving the small council room. She's gonna hear that something is going on with her son, and one of the members of the King's Guard is going to inform her about this. And, she says, "Thank you, Erryk, and this man says, "No, I'm Arryk, actually, uh, not Erryk." Uh, and, uh, the reason being, Richard, we have just met one of our next set of twins on the show. Richard Lawson: Hmm. Josh Wigler: Uh, step aside Lannister twins. We've got Arryk and Erryk Cargyll in the building, uh, two of the newest members of the King's Guard. And, this time, unlike, uh, Jason and Tyland Lannister, uh, these are gonna be played by different actors, actual twin brothers, Elliott and Luke Tittensor are going to be, uh, playing the brothers Cargyll. Richard Lawson: Are they people we should keep an awareness of? Like, are they- do you think they're gonna emerge as something, or are they just kind of little side characters? Josh Wigler: Depends on how much they want to pull from the book. Uh, they will- Richard Lawson: Okay. Josh Wigler: Either be more Easter-eggy, or they might have like one of my favorite moments, uh, of the show. Richard Lawson: Oh. Okay. Intriguing. Josh Wigler: Is- is possible. Uh, it depends on what they want to adapt. They're not gonna be humongously major players, I don't think, um, but I do think if they want to lean into them as characters and elaborate that- on them quite a bit, um, then they could have some fun with- with Arryk and Erryk. Uh, I- I really like these characters quite a bit. I was kind of surprised, frankly, to- to see this on the show at all. It feels like the kind of thing that, uh, I still lament the loss of Strong Belwas from A Song of Ice and Fire not making into _Game of Thrones_. I could have imagined a world where the Cargyll brothers were not brought into the _House of the Dragon_. So, fun to see them here. Richard Lawson: Right. And, if nothing else, they exist in this episode as a funny meta-joke about how everyone on the show has some variation of the same name. [laughs] Josh Wigler: Yeah, well, it's funny, 'cause it's- it's a joke, but it also ends up being something of a plot device, uh, by the end of this episode. Richard Lawson: Oh. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Josh Wigler: Uh, I feel like, uh, so. You know, we're kinda setting that up already, uh, in this- in this tongue and cheek way. Uh, shouldn't be making jokes about tongues at this point in time. Um, Rhaenyra and Daemon, they are going to go and see Viserys, and so this is our first look at, uh, Paddy Considine in this episode and, you know, he has been looking worse and worse and worse as time has gone on. This is, you know, this is a, you know, a man who is- who is really right there at the edge. Uh, he is- he is skeletal. Uh, his- his hair is gone. He is missing an eye, though it is currently wrapped. He looks r- it's really, really, frankly, upsetting, uh, this- this- uh, everything that's going on with Viserys in this episode and just the, you know, the- the absence of his mind and not being able to see or recognize or remember people. Um, all of this, I thought, was, uh, was really, really sad when Daemon and Rhaenyra reach Viserys for the first time in probably half a decade at this point. Richard Lawson: And, he seems so far gone that he's, you know, you kind of- you- you tense up a little bit expecting him to be like, "Get out of my chambers," you know, "you traitors or whatever." Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: But, he doesn't care. You know. He knows that the most important thing is keeping these people from killing each other, um, and he also knows that his p- a- any power he had to do that is swiftly running out. And, um, I think, yeah. I mean, t- t- like, Viserys has been this fascinating, tragic character throughout the whole season, and- and, I think this being his final act is, um, you know, uh, certainly not what I saw coming a few episodes ago. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: But- but really fitting. Josh Wigler: Yeah. So, he's doing- he's not doing so well. Uh, he is not really able to focus on what Rhaenyra and Daemon are actually here for. Uh, you know, they're trying to tell him that the Sea Snake has been wounded and the Step Stones, and Viserys is like, "But, didn't we fight that war?" And, Daemon's like, "Yeah, I know. It's the Triarchy again. They're coming back. They're really trying to make the Triarchy happen. There's new fighting." Uh, so, that's what happened to the Sea Snake, and now there's this petition to decide on the heir to the Driftwood throne, and we need you to affirm your decision for Luke." Uh, and again, just Viserys, uh, demonstrating how- how present he is, he once against just has to ask, "Did something happen to Lord Corlys?" Um, so in this moment, you know, this person who they really need on their side if they are going to be able to keep Luke in place, and keeping Luke in place and keeping Driftmark in their hands is going to be instrumental if they want to have any kind of chance of having real authority towards- towards their claim for the Iron Throne. This man is a lifeline for that, Richard, and he can't focus in the meeting, and that's tough. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. Josh Wigler: Yeah. It's tough. Um, but he has, uh, grandchildren. Uh, he has- he has new grandchildren to meet, uh, and we're meeting them as well for the first time as Daemon and Rhaenyra are introducing Viserys to their two children together. There is yet another Aegon to take into account, uh, so there is, uh, yet another baby Aegon on board here in _House of the Dragon_, and there is a baby Viserys, uh, and he's really, you know, an infant. And, the- the- the Viserys that we've come to know over the course of this show, this feels like this wakes him up, uh, at least for a little while. He has this emotional moment where he says, uh, "That is a name fit for a king." \ Um, I thought that that was really sweet until, sadly, the scene kind of turns, where the babies are- are scared to look upon Viserys, and Viserys is so weak, and his head is pounding, and he starts moaning. Um, it's- it's brutal. This was a really, really tough scene. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. Brilliantly acted. Um, but, like, also, there's something a little, I don't know, sad in the line about name fit for a king, where it's like that kid is like tenth on the line of succession. [laughs] Josh Wigler: I know, yeah. Yeah. Richard Lawson: That's never gonna happen unless, well, I mean, I guess it could. Josh Wigler: Right. [laughs] I mean, I think, uh, I think back to what Luke said in Driftmark. It's like, "I don't wanna be king. [laughs] If I'm king, that means all of you are dead." Richard Lawson: Right, exactly. Josh Wigler: Uh, you know, you imagine Viserys, uh, baby Viserys may be feeling similarly. Richard Lawson: Yeah, like you- having a list, being like, okay, who would have to be dead for me [laughs] to become king? Josh Wigler: Uh-huh. [laughs] Richard Lawson: It's many, many people. Yeah. Josh Wigler: It would be rough. Okay, let's go to Alicent. Uh, and, there is, uh, there's a scene here where Alicent hears, um, from a serving girl named Dyana, uh, who, uh, apparently it seems like has been assaulted by Aegon, uh, and this is- this is a- this is a lot. This is a lot, this scene of Alicent telling Dyana that I believe you, this wasn't your fault, but I worry about what others might believe. Richard Lawson: Yeah, it's very college administration, you know, telling people like, "Well, we could do something, but think of all the things that would... you know, all the problems it would cause. And, you know. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: I mean, this is a bad kid that she has raised. Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: Uh, and- and now, it's not just petulant, you know, whatever he was doing in his early teen years. This is- he's like now, like, harming people v- you know, significantly. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: And, um, and, yet, Alicent can't really pu- you know, push him away. He is of some value to her, strategically, at least. You know? Josh Wigler: Also, you know, he's her son, you know? [laughs] Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: Not for nothing. And- and, I think, um, again, I think a lot of what's happening on the show right now is Alicent has- has- a lot of what we've seen from adult Alicent is so much modeled after the way that she was raised by her father, and she's bringing that down, like the tension, the stakes of "If we don't have our act together, we could get wiped out by Rhaenyra and all of these people." And, um, Aegon is going to tell her, you know, a scene from now, um, that, "I didn't ask for any of this. It's too much pressure." And, like, that's not at all even remotely excusing the way that he is behaving, but it just- it- this- these two scenes back to back, I think, give a lot of insight into why are we even doing any of this? Why does any- why does anyone want the throne in this episode is a question that I walk away with. Richard Lawson: Yeah. It's a curse, you know. Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: Um, and it's one that some people handle better than others, but like... Yeah, I think also, you know, Aegon, um, kinda, you know, having this breakdown or, you know, emotional fit that maybe was a little bit ba- baked or whatever, like, and it does seem to kinda work on Alicent. She- she gets- she's mad at him, but like you do see the sympathy slightly return, you know. Um, it- it- it just- there's a complicated relationship there, obviously. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: Um- Josh Wigler: I think that there's probably some self-loathing there, of like, "I made you." Richard Lawson: Oh, yeah, like this is on me. Josh Wigler: Like, "I created this." Yeah, right. Richard Lawson: You know? And, like, I- I don't- I don't imagine Viserys was the most like present father when the boy was younger. And, um, are we supposed to think that, um, Dyana was poisoned? Josh Wigler: I had that question as well. Uh, I was certainly afraid that that was what was happening here. Um, but I think that it is once again the Moon Tea. I think it is, uh, you know, their morning after remedy that we've seen a few times. Richard Lawson: Right. Right, right. That's what I- yeah. Josh Wigler: Um, you know, I don't- I don't think that Alicent is- is killing this woman, but, um, you know, I definitely was- was concerned. I think we would have gotten some kind of follow up scene if- if that had been the case. Richard Lawson: Yeah. You know, and it- I guess, also, this is- this feels like a first time, maybe, that at least that Alicent's been aware of. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: Or, does it- yeah. Right? 'Cause it didn't seem like, "Okay, get the tea again." You know? "Another one of these." This felt like significant, like in- in- in Aegon's kind of, um, progression into, you know, villainy, I guess. Josh Wigler: Yeah. I think that the- yeah, I think the way that she responds to it when she's alone with Aegon suggests that to me, that this is not been like... I mean, it might be a regular occurrence, but it might be the first time that this regular occurrence is pinging on her radar. Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: Um, uh, we come to find out that Aegon and Helaena, as threatened, have been married to one another, so brother and sister, uh, in the Targaryen family, as per tradition, have wed. Um, Helaena comes into the room saying, uh, "Have any of you seen Dyana? Uh, she's supposed to dress our children." Uh, so, uh, this is, um, this is the show telling us that Aegon and Helaena are not only married, uh, but they have produced children together at this point. Richard Lawson: And, Helaena, you know, true to her earlier characterization, is a bit of a oddball, you know? Um, we see that- more of that later in the episode, like, I- I'm very curious about that character. Uh, I mean, maybe she's just kind of there to kind of add texture to it, but like she's- she's in a significant position, too. Um, and I'm curious what the show is gonna do with her. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Um, we get the first scene between Alicent, Rhaenyra, and Daemon, uh, of this episode, the first time the three of them have been together since that very dramatic scene at Driftmark last week. Uh, and, uh, a lot of, you know, like pot shots being taken at each other in this. Uh, you know, "Alicent, you were too busy to greet us, uh, upon our arrival. You were too busy ruling. How have you been expressing the king's wisdom through grunts and wheezes?", you know, now that Daemon and Rhaenyra know that Viserys is not supremely capable of getting his point across at this point. Um, so, there's just a lot of- of tension in this room. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah, and a very complicated, old tension, you know. And, um, I think by the time we get to the banquet scene later on, like you see the weariness of that. They're just like, "Oh, my God. I can't believe we're still doing this." Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Um, but- but, they do... I mean, Daemon and R- Rhaenyra certainly do have a point. Like, this is not a guy who is confidently barking out orders from bed. Like, you guys are- must be making a lot of this up on your own. Josh Wigler: Yeah, like how are you translating any of that? Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: Into like actual, uh, you know, uh, policy? So, uh, yeah. It's a- it's a worthy question at this point. I think it's interesting that- and, we- we caught glimpses of this, I think, at the small council scene earlier, and coming up in a second here, when Alicent and Otto are with Vaemond, and Vaemon is saying like, you know, "The realm has enjoyed a long peace." I think that this is Otto who says it. "Um, you know, there's the threat of war that's looming, and it could arrive at our shores, and if it does, who do we want at the command of the greatest fleet of Westeros? Do you want a child, or do you want someone who's gonna be loyal to us?" Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: Uh, do you want Vaemond on the throne? Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: And, so there's a strong case that's being made for why it should be Vaemond who, even if it's not supposed to go to him, why he should be sitting on the Driftwood throne, but such a decree, and the decree is going to fall to Alicent and Otto as Alicent tells to Rhaenyra and Daemon, uh, that we will be the ones who are making this call, um, it's a reach, right? You know, it is a grab. Uh, it is a move, uh, and it's not one that you can really take back, and it is- it is not one that is keeping with tradition, and it will certainly signal, and its reception will certainly signal like how far can we push this? You know, who's on our side? Who's not? If this is going to hold, then that really weakens, um, Rhaenyra to the point that she might not have a shot at any of this anymore and, in fact, could be greatly endangered, uh, at that point in time. Um, so the- the stakes are once again becoming very, very clear, but I think it's compelling that Alicent seems to be processing the- the- the impact of this, the possible impact of this as well, of being the person who is in that chair, Richard, and knowing like, "If I do this, if I give this to Vaemond, it's on." Richard Lawson: That's it. Yeah. Josh Wigler: "And, I don't know that I wanna do that, but I might have to do that." Richard Lawson: Especially because, like I said earlier, like everyone has been waiting to make these moves for a long time, and I think in that time have started to kinda question those moves and question the motivations behind them, and question whether they even want the thing that they're supposed to want. Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: And, now, Alicent and everybody, really, it's like, "Okay, here we go." Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: Like, it's- it's finally here at- you know, we have to- we never thought that we were going to get Avatar Two, and now it's coming out. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Richard Lawson: Uh, and [inaudible 00:36:14] Josh Wigler: The Way of the Water would have been another great name for this episode. Richard Lawson: [laughs] It's true. True, yeah. Josh Wigler: Okay, so let us then go to, uh, the fighting yards. Jace and Luke are back in King's Landing as well for the first time since they were children, and they're doing kind of the- the stroll down memory lane. "Oh, look, that's the hole where Criston Cole swung his morningstar. I told you it'd still be here." Uh, we also come to find out that at this point in time, Luke, uh, seems to be old enough, Richard, to understand, um the, uh, at least the rumors, if not the reality, of who their biological father was. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: Um, there's some- some talk about, uh, the memory of Ser Harwin Strong. Richard Lawson: Yeah. He's aware of it, but, you know, they've been elsewhere. They've been in their own little world, and so it may be, uh, it mattered less, and now that they're right back where it matters most, I don't think that, uh, the kids are maybe necessarily prepared to- to deal with that. Josh Wigler: They're definitely not prepared to deal with their Uncle Aemond. Uh, as we see how time has treated Aemond Targaryen since last we saw him, he had claimed the largest dragon in the land, Luke had claimed Aemond's eye, and now, played by Ewan Mitchell, Aemond Targaryen is a young man grown, and he is very good, uh, in a fight. Uh, he bests Criston Cole, uh, in this- this quick skirmish where neither of them seem to be holding back. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: Criston Cole, talking about his morningstar, you are seeing him swinging this thing at full volume, uh, to, uh, at Aemond, uh, and Aemond is able to dodge it left and right. He ends this little sparring match with Criston Cole at sword point. Uh, Criston tells him, "You're gonna win tournaments in no time." And, Aemond tells Criston, "I don't give a shit about tournaments." So, we know a lot about Aemond Targaryen in this one scene. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Well, we also, um, he is Westeros' number one sky captain in the World of Tomorrow cosplay. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Yeah. He looks great. Richard Lawson: Which is a big d- big distinction. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Yeah, it- it's a lot of look for this show. Josh Wigler: I'm thinking Elle Driver, Elle Driver was on my mind. Richard Lawson: Yeah. [laughs] Oh, very Elle Driver, absolutely. Yeah, with the long blonde hair. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: That's true, that's very true. Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: And, he's got a really striking face, this actor, so. Josh Wigler: I don't know if my whistling is gonna translate to the- to the podcast- Richard Lawson: [laughs] Josh Wigler: So, I'm gonna hold back. But, you know what I'm thinking. Yeah. Richard Lawson: If you look down, there's a black mamba snake at your feet right now, so be careful. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm trying to be careful. Um, I think that in addition to claiming, uh, Vhagar the dragon, Richard, it is possible that Aemond has claimed the word nephews for the rest of time. Richard Lawson: [laughs] Josh Wigler: The way that he spits out the word, "Nephews, have you come to train?", and he's gonna say, "Nephews," again later in the episode, and I don't think that I'll ever see that word again and not think of Aemond Targaryen. Richard Lawson: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, he wields it- he wields it, uh, heavily but well. Josh Wigler: Yeah. I mean, it is- it is so, uh, it- it- it's so patronizing, it's so demoralizing, it sounds dangerous, the way that he just- he hasn't acknowledged their presence yet, and Luke and Jace are kind of just watching, seemingly the first time that they've seen him since everything went down, and he doesn't greet them warmly, he doesn't greet them with anything other than a very cold, sharp acknowledgement as his nephews. Um, it's, you know, it's an act of dominance, for sure. Uh, and I think, uh, Aemond has- has announced himself as a pretty dangerous person already in this one scene, and it will- it will only get deadlier as the episode goes on. Um, Aemond, by the way, is thrilled to see Vaemon Velaryon show up as, uh, Vaemon's entire procession rolls into town. Pretty clear the outcome that he is routing for at this moment in time. Richard Lawson: Yeah. He's- he's at least- I- I- you know, once in a while, you have a character who's vocal about exactly [laughs] what side their on. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: And, uh, you know, that helps- Josh Wigler: He's pretty clear. Yeah. Richard Lawson: Yeah, helps clarify things, um, even though Aemond is pretty far down that line of succession, but like I don't think that much matters to him, just like he doesn't care about tournaments. Josh Wigler: No. Um, so then we get the scene with Vaemon and Alicent and Otto, which I- I feel like we've already- we've already covered. Uh, you know, Vaemond is just making it very clear to them that whoever you pick as the next Lord of the Tides, they're gonna be pretty in your debt. Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: So will Driftmark, uh, so you might wanna think about going with me. Uh, so it's definitely a- a top of mind decision for the Hightowers. Meanwhile, uh, three women named Rhaenyra, Rhaena, and Rhaenys walk into a bar. Richard Lawson: [laughs] Or [inaudible 00:40:34]. Josh Wigler: Uh, this is hilarious. This is hilarious. Yeah. Uh, this feels like a gag to some degree, Richard, of like, "We have to have a scene that's just the three people that are named almost exactly alike," Richard Lawson: [laughs] Rhaena is who's kid? [laughs] Josh Wigler: Rhaena- Rhaena is Daemon and Laena's, uh, daughter. Richard Lawson: Other- not- so, Baela's sister. Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: Okay. Josh Wigler: Uh, and she is the one who, uh, last we checked, did not have a dragon, and I believe that is still the case. Richard Lawson: Ah, okay. Okay. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Uh, and so she's the one who hasn't seen Rhaenys in a long time, because Baela is the one who is at Driftmark, uh, and it absolutely feels like we are being clowned by the show. Richard Lawson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Josh Wigler: We're like- and, I think like specifically when I say we, I think like you and me and our fellow podcasters and all the prognosticators. I think that like Ryan Condal and George R.R. Martin are on the other side of their computer screens listening to this being like, "I can't wait to see how people cover this scene. Are they gonna be able to keep everybody in- in- in track? I don't know. Uh, Rhaenyra, Rhaena, and Rhaenys, all three of them together at last. It's good stuff. Richard Lawson: Maybe it's an homage to the Indian action film, R. R. R. Josh Wigler: Oh, it could be. [laughs] Richard Lawson: I- I don't know. [laughs] Josh Wigler: Yeah. It could be. Richard Lawson: Reading, writing, arithmetic? I don't know. Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: Uh, but yes, they're all together. Um, and, uh, yeah. Okay, it helps to c- clarify again, so Rhaena is one of the little girls who was in that cave when- Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: Aemond lost his eye. Right. Josh Wigler: Correct. So, she was there for that, um, and it seems like it has been a while since she has seen her grandmother, and it certainly has been some time since Rhaenyra and Rhaenys have had a time together, understandably, considering that Rhaenys believes that Rhaenyra killed her son, uh, and Rhaenyra is furiously denying it in this scene. Uh, once Rhaena goes away, Rhaenyra says, "I loved your son. You may not believe it to be true, but I did. I did not order his death, nor was I complicit in it. I swear this to you." Um, it's, you know, I guess it's the truth, kind of, technically. There's some omission going on. Richard Lawson: Yeah. I think there's also an interesting dynamic where like in some ways Rhaenyra agreed to hold a s- a family secret for her dad's cousin. You know, which was like, "Your son is gay." Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: "And, I'm gonna kind of be complicit in covering that up." Um, and so some ways, I mean, obvious- uh, you know, Laena's imagined death aside, like Rhaenys kind of owes Rhaenyra a debt of gratitude in a way, um, and is being a, you know, the- the whole like, w- you know, whose children are whose, like, what were- what were- What were Rhaenyra's choices, really? And, I don't really think that's what Rhaenys is upset about. Obviously, she thinks that she, you know, that she had Laena killed, but like, I don't know, there's just an interesting dynamic between them, because strip a- away of other things, like their kind of- they're- they're very similar. I think they're of the same mind. Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: Um, and that's kinda one of the sad things about this scene, where you're like maybe they can never reach that understanding, but I think they kinda do later in the episode. Josh Wigler: You do get the sense that if these two could get on message with each other- Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: They would be really powerful. Um- but yeah. Richard Lawson: Like, if Rhaenyra could just like be like, "You can't tell anyone else, but he's okay." Josh Wigler: Right. Right. Richard Lawson: "I don't know where he is, but I think he has like a loft apartment in one of the free cities." Josh Wigler: [laughs] Yeah. I know that she's trying to save that for her final tribal council speech, Richard. Richard Lawson: Right, [laughs], that- that [inaudible 00:43:54]. Josh Wigler: But like, I do- I do think that this might be, just as we're squeezing down to the final three, it's like final five, maybe you wanna trot it out there so you can win her for your vote when it gets a little tense. Uh, so. Richard Lawson: Right, exactly. [laughs] Josh Wigler: Yeah. Um, but, yeah, she's- she's trying to make another offer that might, uh, you know, be a bit of a stopgap in this tension for at least a moment. Um, she says, "Listen, uh, if you back Luke tomorrow, we will betroth, uh, Laena's children to mine, uh, Baela and Jace will- will be together. She will be the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms someday, and Rhaena will rule in Driftmark, uh, and that will pass along to her and Luke's children." So, you know, this will stay in the Velaryon bloodline is, you know, sort of the unspoken piece of this. And, Rhaenys is like, "That's very generous, and also very, very desperate." Uh, a stinky cologne. Uh, and she says, "You- it's a- it's a really nice offer, but you can bargain with me all you like, tomorrow Alicent Hightower is going to deliver her first blow and force you to your knees, and I will be standing right there." So, right now, she doesn't want to hear any of this. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: And, when this falls on deaf ears, Richard, I think this is the moment where Rhaenyra is like, "I'm screwed." Richard Lawson: Yeah, I'm getting voted out tonight. Yeah. Josh Wigler: I should- I'm getting voted out tonight, yes. Uh, and so she- she comes to her father, like the only person, uh, that she can possibly appeal to, right? Like the- the only pers- like, her- her life in the game is in the hands of the one person who does not know how to play it. Uh, you know. She- she's coming to Viserys and, uh, asking him, you know, while he is- it's late at night, he's- he's moaning and groaning his way through the night, and she, uh, is being mistaken for Alicent at this moment in time, which is rich, [laughs] uh, considering the end of the episode. Um, and Rhaenyra is going to ask him about the Song of Ice and Fire, do you believe that it's true? Are we really supposed to have this duty where we have to hold the realm united against a common foe? Uh, because by naming me heir, you divided the realm, so did you actually believe any of this? Um, and it's storming outside, and she says, "I thought I wanted this, but the burden, it's heavy. It's too heavy. Uh, and if you wish me to bear it, then you need to defend me and my children." Uh, it just feels like sort of this, um, this magical moment. This is like a big moment, I feel like, Richard, where she's like wishing on the thunderstorm for Viserys to have like one last jolt of life to get on his feet. I wrote in my recap to Grandpa Joe his way out of bed and like storm the chocolate factory with her and like, you have to show up tomorrow. You have to help me. um, and it's gonna work, but it does not feel like it's gonna work in this moment. Richard Lawson: Yeah, that's a rare moment of pure vulnerability. You know? Like, we've had many scenes on this season of like people clearly who are bereft or whatever, but they have to kind of steel themselves, you know, because of who they're talking to or what circumstance they're in. But, in this case, it's just like a girl and her dying father- Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: And, she's just like I am completely lost. Like, please help, um, and- and yeah, there's something sort of vaguely, not supernatural, but there's some- something in the air, you know, of this scene, which I think is really well done. Um, what do we think that Viserys meant by, "my only child."? Josh Wigler: Yeah. Um, I think that he- I think that you get it from, you know, as- as, you know, recently as six years ago, he's confusing Alicent for- for Emma. Uh, he's gonna have the- you know, his- his potentially final words at the end of this episode- Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: Where he's sort of like grasps at the night and says, "My love." It feels like he's stuck, you know, or like he's like, he is almost like, uh, you know, again, like to invoke, uh, Lost time travel rules, he's like Mankowski in the Constant, uh, you know, like drifting through time on his deathbed, uh, as he is like going back to his proverbial Ferris wheel, and he is being tethered back to his constant, to Emma. Uh, and I think that he, when he says, "Rhaenyra, my only child," for me, I mean, there's no question that he is the father of, uh, Alicent's children, um, but I think in this moment, he is thinking back or he's like maybe even really located in that time before all of this. You know, it's just where he wants to go back. Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: That was the last time this man was an- anywhere even remotely close to happy, you think, is when it was just him, Emma, and Rhaenyra, and that's where he wants to be. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: And, that might be kind of where he's living right now. Richard Lawson: Yeah, which again, later on has disastrous consequences. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Big time. Richard Lawson: Potentially. Josh Wigler: Potentially. Uh, probably. Uh, so the [laughs] next day, um, I really loved this imagery. We- you know, we've seen the- the model of old Valerya, of course, in the credits every week, but we also see it in Viserys' bedroom, uh, throughout the series, and here, like with the candles that are- that are lit to, you know, illuminate, uh, the- the old Valerya model, they're like down to like the- the very last bits, and it's just the smoking ruins of old Valerya. It feels like the doom is coming. Uh, so I just thought that that was super evocative, and I- I loved that choice. Um, it is also, uh, very, very evocative to watch Viserys get ready for the day and how many people it requires to sort of clean him up to be quasi-presentable. Uh, we see all of the lesions have just gotten worse. The wounds have gotten worse. He, uh, you know, kudos to, uh, to- to- to the visual effects on this episode. I cannot imagine that Paddy Considine Christian Baled himself here, Richard. Richard Lawson: No. No. Josh Wigler: Um, but it's really- it's really effective when you see him just skin and bone, uh, it is just horrible. It's so horrible. It's so sad to see what this man has become. Richard Lawson: Yeah, and yet, he still, because of some invented idea of title and succession, has power. You know? And, I think that his frailty is- is kind of a good reminder that this is all made up. You know. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: But, like there is nothing divine about him. There's not- he's human. Um, and, you know, that both kind of, I think, emboldens the people trying to vie for his power, but also like sh- should in an ideal world make them think, be like, "Look, this- we're not gonna cheat death with getting this power. We're not gonna do anything. It- it doesn't, you know... Um, we should invent democracy." [laughs] Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: Um, but, you know, of course, they won't. Josh Wigler: No. Not even by the end of _Game of Thrones_. They laugh at it, literally. Richard Lawson: Yep, yep. Josh Wigler: Uh, what are you gonna do? [laughs] Um, so Otto is- is recognizing that, uh, Viserys is- is not quite ready for- for any of this, but I think beyond like, you know, it's- it's so much less about Viserys is not quite ready for this, and more, it would be so easy to just feed this man more of the milk of poppy and just put him back to bed. Uh, and that would be better, because then we get to make the call. Um, but Viserys shakes his head, uh, and he- he wants to keep going, but when we arrive in the throne room in the next scene, it feels like at least the show is trying to sell us that Viserys did not make it to the- to the meeting, uh, that he is not going to be coming, because Otto Hightower is speaking on behalf of the crown in his capacity as the hand of the king, and he will be the one who settles the matter of the succession of Driftmark. And so, in this moment, Rhaenyra feels like it's probably a lost cause. She will do what- what she can. She'll, you know, she'll defend herself as best as she can, but the votes are coming in, and it's not in her favor. Um, Daemon gets to speak first and talk about the true unimpeachable Valyrian blood that runs through his veins. Rhaenyra tries to- to interrupt him and say that my children have that blood as well. Alicent tells her, "Daemon gets to talk. You can talk after him." And, Daemon, uh, very pointedly says to- to Rhaenyra, "I could cut my veins open and show you Valyrian blood, and you still would not recognize it." Um, he tells the crown that this is a matter of blood, not ambition, and it's about the continuation of my house above all. It's probably a little bit about ambition, right? Richard Lawson: Oh, yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Every- everything is. You know, this is opportunity just like anything else, you know. Josh Wigler: Yeah. There's at least a little ambition here. Uh- Richard Lawson: Well, it's like when someone gets- gets medically evacuated from Survivor, every- and someone inevitably says, "I'm sad to see them go, but." [laughs] Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. But, that's pretty good for me. Richard Lawson: But. Yeah. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Although, like the flip side is like Rhaenyra is like, "My father got medivacced, and that screwed my game," you know. [laughs] Richard Lawson: [laughs] Josh Wigler: [inaudible 00:51:53] she's at right now. Richard Lawson: Right, right. Yeah, she's on like one of the Blood and Water seasons. Josh Wigler: Yeah. I can't believe he left with the idol. He could have given that to me. Richard Lawson: [laughs] Josh Wigler: Um, so, what could go wrong, indeed? Uh, Viserys is going to show up now. Um, and I don't know, uh, may- there was something in the room this day that I was watching this episode, Richard, but I was very misty eyed at this entire sequence. I thought that this was really very effective. Um, Viserys coming into the- into the throne room, he is loudly announced, uh, King Viserys of House Targaryen, first of his name, King of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men. Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm. And, here he is, you know, hobbling through on his cane, yet on his own two feet. Uh, he had this golden mask that makes him look part-crab feeder, part Phantom of the Opera. Uh, and he manages to get to the throne. Very painfully, uh, but very powerfully, I thought, as he comes up to Otto and the- the Ramin Djawadi score is soaring underneath all of this, and he says, "I will sit the throne today." And, Otto steps aside, "Your Grace." What are you to do? You have to- you have to set aside, uh, you have to step aside at this point. Um, his crown drops. Daemon comes. He picks up the crown for him and puts it on Viserys' head. I- I was full on crying at this point. This was the first time I've cried at _House of the Dragon_, but I was really moved by this entire sequence. Richard Lawson: Well, it's the last gasp of like moderate government. [laughs] You know? Josh Wigler: Right. It feels like it. Richard Lawson: Like- who- whoever takes this role after him is gonna have to be much more extreme than he's been, and he managed to kind of hold things at bay, uh, for long- a long time, you know, which is like, you know, he was worrying about his legacy episodes ago, and it's like, I think he kind of weirdly has built one, which was basically just like gonna- keeping my asshole family members from killing each other. [laughs] Josh Wigler: Right. Right. Richard Lawson: Um, yeah, so to see him just do one more like no, assert- you know, assertion of- of- of himself, um, yeah. It's a- it was a good- it's a big scene. Josh Wigler: I think it- it's Daemon giving him the crown that like pushed me over the edge. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. Josh Wigler: Uh, 'cause I was thinking back to, obviously, all of like the horrors that have gone on between these two brothers, but Viserys constantly telling Daemon how much he, you know, like... Even, every time Daemon screws up, every time he messes up, Viserys is like, "Just come back. Come back." Uh, and Daemon last week being the one who, like, who wants nothing to do with that. He never wanted his brother's help. Uh, and now, in this moment, when he and his wife really need, uh, Viserys' help, here's Daemon to help Viserys, like you have done like 90% of the leg work. Let me get you that last 10% to the throne. Felt like a moment of- of- of growth for the relationship between these brothers, which feels like, um, you know, good timing considering there might not be much time left, uh, for either of them to- to be with each other anymore. So, I thought that that was really good. Matt Smith's face just really sold that and, obviously, Paddy Considine doing so much work in, uh, in this episode. Um, and when he- when he steps up, and he's just like- he's not like right back to the old version of himself, but he's- he's eloquent enough. Uh, I must admit my confusion. I don't understand why petitions are being heard over settled succession. This matters. This is- this is what I was saying earlier, Richard, is like this episode with this matter of the Lord of the Tides, very instructive, right? Because, he's not going to be here, Viserys, for too much longer. He knows this. Um, but succession has been settled. His daughter is the heir. She will sit on the Iron Throne after him. It's done. Why are we doing this? And, it's like Viserys is getting to time travel, perhaps, a little bit, a glimpse into the future that exists beyond. Richard Lawson: Right. Yeah, yeah. And, it- yeah, you're right that he is- he is pretty lucid and well spoken in this, and- and it- you know, you- you get this sort of [inaudible 00:55:31] glimmer of like, okay, like, there's still a sane person in authority, and then, of course, like, he's gone again. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: You know, and, um, there- there is something kind of poignant about that. But like, yeah, this is- I think this is the crux moment in a way, weirdly, that we've been kind of waiting for. You know, um, it's not even about who gets to become king or queen. It's about this other noble house and yet it has so many far reaching implications. Josh Wigler: Uh, Rhaenys at this point, uh, I think, you know, reads the room. Viserys is here. She's been offered this deal from Rhaenyra, and if Viserys was strong enough to get to the throne, she's smart enough to know what motivated that. Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: Um, so, she's like, "Well, let me just go ahead and take that deal, then, that Rhaenyra pitched to me, and I will- I will go all the way with that. Luke is the true born son, uh, of my- of my departed son, Laenor. Uh, Corlys wanted this to- to go to him. Uh, and, in fact, it's such a great day for all of us. Rhaenyra just told me that we're gonna propose my granddaughters. Uh, we're gonna, uh, you know, have them marry, uh, their cousins, their stepbrothers. It's gonna be a great time in Westeros." Uh, and Viserys says, "Great. Then I can go back to bed." Uh, Luke is the heir of the Driftwood throne, and that is that." Except, that's not that for Vaemon Velaryon, who decides that now is the time to blow things up. Uh, he- he cannot abide what has gone down, and he- he lets it be known that this is, uh, that this is, uh, uh, a catastrophe, that this is catastrophic decision making from Viserys, and he will not stand for it. Richard Lawson: Yeah, well, he was not going to stand for much longer, yeah. Josh Wigler: [laughs] No. Really not. He is not. He is making this final pitch. Uh, you know, he is getting to have, uh, like a very HBO death, I think, is what's happening here for- for Vaemond. I'm thinking of a certain, I won't even speak the name, final season Boardwalk Empire scene, uh, as Vaemond is going to be shouting loudly, peacocking about- about his- his being the true Velaryon blood, that is no nephew of mine. Do you know who I am? They are bastards. Uh, and she is a whore, he says, about Rhaenyra, and Viserys takes out his dagger. He would like spring off the throne if he could. He does say, "I will have your tongue for that." And then, Daemon, because this is an action movie all of the sudden, takes out Dark Sister, his Velaryon sword, chops of Vaemond's head from the lower jaw up while his tongue is still wagging. He falls to the ground, and Daemon says, "He can keep his tongue." Like, okay, I've been taken out of it a little bit at this moment in time, but, gosh, that [laughs] was a lot. Richard Lawson: Yeah. It's a little cartoony, this part, but like, uh, with- you know, complete with the no action movie kiss off line, but, you know, the show needs that sometimes. Josh Wigler: I think so, too. Um- Richard Lawson: And, I think that- I think in the sort of psychological framework of these characters, this world that we're in, I think even- people will pretty quickly be like, "The guy called his wife a whore to the king's face, like he was totally justified in having his head cut off by that woman's husband." You know, like- Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Like, I- I feel like you're like there- there's some sort of logic for them, where it's like, "Yeah, it's a big deal that he killed this nobleman, but like he's a little more noble, and also, his family had been grievously insulted." Josh Wigler: Yeah. I think that that's it. And, I think like they had- they had pushed the envelope multiple times throughout this show of like just like getting right up to the edge of accusing, um, you know, Rhaenyra's children of being Harwin Strong's children, and finally, someone loudly shouting it, not in like the- the- like, the quasi-public forum of Driftmark last week. This is the Red Keep. You know, this is Madison [laughs] Square Garden. You know, you can't take this back. Uh, so, yeah, I think, uh, a- an equally loud announcement. I think for Daemon, probably, like worth the risk if they pull swords on me. Like, this can't stand. Like, if we're to show any force of power, I have to make the move that I'm making now. And also, I think, no love lost between Daemon and Vaemond. Uh, you go back to episode three in the War on the Step Stones, they did not seem to care for each other all that much anyway. Um, you know, Daemon was laughing when Vaemond was making his pointed remarks about the Velaryon children last week, too. So, I think something of a long time coming for- for Daemon versus, um, Vaemond. I guess I was surprised, Richard, because I'm used to it being the penultimate episodes of a season one of a _Game of Thrones_ franchise where someone loses their head, but this came just like one episode early for me. Richard Lawson: Yeah. E- exactly. They're just shaking things up, you know. Um, uh, I- you do- do also wonder that if the Sea Snake is alive and gonna come back to the show, which we kind of assume he will, that's not good. You know, like he's gonna be like, "He did what to my brother?" You know. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: Um, so we- we have to assume that this beheading will have consequences beyond what we've seen by the end of this episode. Josh Wigler: Is that the moment where Daemon should be like, "All right, well, so that's the bad news. The good news is your son is alive, and I had something to do with that."? Richard Lawson: [laughs] Right, exactly. Whoa, whoa, whoa, just hear me out. Josh Wigler: Yeah. [laughs] Richard Lawson: Both of our moms are named Martha. You know. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. [laughs] Right. Exactly. Um, we do have this moment afterwards of Rhaenys in the morgue, uh, looking over Vaemond's body. Uh, as, uh, the Silent Sisters are- are washing him, uh, and getting him ready to be returned to Driftmark, uh, and, uh, the Grand Maester tells her like, "Maybe you don't want to be here for this." Uh, and she says, "No, the stranger has visited me more times than I can count, and I assure you, he cares little whether my eyes are open or closed." I though this was a really compelling scene from the one person on the show who has like so clearly, multiple times, said, "We're just going deeper and deeper into the bear pit." Um, she like is now having eyes on a dead body, yet another dead family member, whether or not she cared much for this man. Uh, and realizing like, "Gosh, we are right in the center of this storm." Richard Lawson: Yeah. And, you wonder what her- her next moves are, like where she goes, you know. I think the character and the performance is so good that I- I wouldn't want to kind of fade into the background now that she's been, not neutralized, but sort of like placated with this marriage arrangement or whatever. Um, you know, because like, she's the- she's been the wisest one about this the whole time. And, you know, people didn't listen to her. Josh Wigler: Right. I mean, you know, right before this happened, you know, if she could have seen a little bit into the future, maybe she wouldn't have announced the part about, uh, my granddaughters being, uh, betrothed to Rhaena's sons, uh, but that happened first, and then a man died, uh, and it was a sharp reminder of what she is actually, uh, pushing herself towards. It's actually kind of interesting, when you think about Rhaenys making this move, it feels very Sea Snake. Uh, like, you know, um, he's so concerned about legacy, and he's so concerned about who the Driftwood Throne will pass down to, and he's the one who- who cares so much about, um, whether or not he has proximity to the Iron Throne. And, it's like this opportunity to have her granddaughters closer to it that Rhaenyra has thrown her way, and Viserys stepping up to the plate and clearly going to be ru- ruling in Rhaenyra's favor, it's almost like some of that, um, old energy. Before she was the Queen Who Never Was, and when she stood- still stood a chance at being just the queen, it's like some of that has reactivated, maybe in this moment where she's alone with Vaemon. It almost feels like a- a very quick, uh, sobering up on the other side of [inaudible 01:02:54], of relapse. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah, and, you know, you have to think, okay, in some ways, she's protecting those kids by having them marry into this- into the inner sanctum, but also, that puts them at more risk, depending on how things go, and like just the weariness of having to juggle all of those potential outcomes, uh, you know, I think you really feel on- on Rhaenys in this episode. Josh Wigler: So, we go to this feast that Viserys wanted, um, his entire family present. Everyone's here in King's Landing. Who knows when that will happen again, certainly with him still being able to stand. Uh, and so he has brought in... There's this big gulf between, uh, Rhaenyra and Alicent where Viserys outta be at the start of it. There is this moment where it looks like they're going to speak with each other just of their own volition, um, before Viserys is- is brought in, and, um, everyone is toasting to- to Luke and to Jace and Baela and Rhaena, uh, the strengthening of the Houses. Everybody's playing, you know, nice enough at this moment in time, but, it's really Viserys' words that I think take it, at least for a time, from nice enough to actually kind of nice. Uh, he- he get- he gives this speech. He tells everybody, "It- it gladdens my heart and fills me with sorrow to see these faces around the table. The faces most dear to me in all the world, you've grown so distant from each other in years past." Uh, he takes his mask off. We see his eye is missing, uh, and so we see his face, uh, as it truly is for the first time in this episode. Uh, he has the line, "My own face is no longer a handsome one, if indeed it ever was, but tonight I wish you to see me as I am, not just a king but your father, your brother, your husband, and your grandsire, who may not, it seems, walk for much longer among you. Let us no longer hold ill feelings in our hearts. The crown cannot stand strong if the _House of the Dragon_ remains divided." He said the name of the show. Richard Lawson: [laughs] Josh Wigler: "Set aside your grievances, if not for the sake of the crown, then for the sake of this old man who loves you all so dearly." And, that is the speech. And, for a- for five minutes, Richard, it seems like it worked. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, uh, he's given a speech like this before, and it worked for a tiny bit, and then it didn't, you know. And... But this one, yeah, it's like this is like one of his final proclamations, you know, and I think people are like, "You know, well, all right, like maybe we can figure this out." And, it lasts, you know, until dessert basically. Josh Wigler: Right. Yeah, it's like everyone in the room is like, "Yeah, let's look at his true face and we can all, you know, sort of like get closer to what we're all thinking anyway. It's like he is- he is on his way. He is on his way out, and we are on the edge of making a choice. Do we want peace or do we want war?" Uh, and it feels like Rhaenyra and Alicent, in this moment at least, and probably to- to Otto's chagrin, to a certain degree, when Alicent says, "I raise my cup to you and your house. You will make a fine queen." Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: And, it seems like the two of them have set it aside, that that is their desire in this moment. It feels authentic to me. Richard Lawson: Yeah. A- a- and part of it, I think, is Rhaenyra like sees the full picture of how far her father has fallen into poor health, and she's like, "Good God, Alicent has been taking care of that?" You know? Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: Like, I think there is just a basic like human appreciation for the fact that like Alicent like s- stuck by, uh, Viserys through a lot of hard and, you know, scary stuff. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Um, but even in the immediate aftermath, like, if that's the- if that's the, you know, if that's generation- the generation after Viserys, if they're able to get there, then their kin are not quite there yet themselves, as Aegon and Rhaena and Jace are kind of embroiled in a little bit of crosstalk, uh, Aegon saying to Rhaena, "If you ever wish to know what it is to be satisfied, all you have to do is ask." Jace rises, Aemond rises. Uh, Jace raises a glass to cover it up. He gives a toast to, uh, his uncles, to Aegon and Aemond, and he's just like punching Aegon [laughs] in the shoulder the whole way through. Uh, and then he goes up and dances with Helaena. Uh, he sweeps her off her feet as the music strikes up, uh, as Helaena tells Baela and Rhaena what to expect from marriage, uh, "Your husband will mostly ignore you except sometimes when he's drunk. It's not so bad." Uh, and Helaena and Jace will start dancing together as Aegon, kind of red faced, is watching, feeling embarrassed. But, the rest of the table is mostly pleasant. You even see like Otto does this like strange little golf clap thing. Uh, they're all looking like kind of lovingly at each other. I noted that this- this felt to me, Richard, like there was a world in which this is the series finale. Like, they all figured it out. That's great. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah, exactly, but- but there's always some tension lurking at the edges, you know. In this case, it's the form of a- of a mean uncle. Josh Wigler: Yes, mean Uncle Aemond, uh, because Viserys is watching everybody and he is having this moment of, you can imagine in his mind being like, "I did it. All right. I fixed it. I solved everything. Um, I've- [laughs]- I established world peace." Uh, and then he is starting to succumb to his illness again, and his head is throbbing, and his guards have to lift him up and es- escort him out of the room. Um, and the moment he is gone is the moment that Aemond decides, "Well, let me just go ahead and break that, 'cause we're not actually doing that plan, right." Richard Lawson: Right. Right. Josh Wigler: We're still doing Plan A, murder everybody. That's still the game plan, right? Uh, and he gives his toast, his toast to his three nephews. "To the nephews, uh, let us drain our cups to these three strong boys, handsome, wise, and capital S strong." Richard Lawson: Right. He's playing a little words, you know, game here. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: Um, that I, embarrassingly didn't pick up on until the second Strong, and I was like, "Oh, right, right. Like the- like the last name [laughs]." Josh Wigler: Right. Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: Um, and, you know, again, with the week, with the center of power week, people feel very emboldened, you know, and he's literally carried out of the room, Viserys is, and so, you know, um, out of sight, out of mind, and, uh, you know, it's a- it's a- a good kind of clever literary dev- sh- foreshadowing of like that's gonna come when, you know, Viserys is really gone. Um, and, you know, I don't know what Aemond's like ultimate endgame is, 'cause we haven't spent enough time with him in this more adult form, but, um, he clearly has absolutely nothing but disdain for most of his extended family. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Um, pretty clear, yeah. He- he- I mean, and it's rooted in a very real trauma for him. You know. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: These- the- [laughs] these kids took his eye. Richard Lawson: [laughs] Josh Wigler: You know, he said it was a fair trade, but I'm sure he would love to still have his eye. Richard Lawson: It's rooted in that, and I think, also, you know, there's interesting generational d- dynamics now kind of really emerging on the show that they- the third generation of kids is older. Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: And, that like, Alicent and Rhaenyra were raised under Viserys' kind of, you know, poo-pooed or sort of, uh, you know, scoffed at reign of peace, if- if ineffectual, you know, ness. Uh, and they are softer. You know, they had to kind of, in the earlier episodes of the season, [inaudible 01:09:59] really steel themselves, train themselves into this kind of wield of power, this- this conniving, this scheming, all that, and, of course, if they were kind of helping create that world, of course their children, who are completely marinated in it from birth- Josh Wigler: Right. Richard Lawson: Are gonna be the ones, you know. There's a kind of more universal tale about like inherited, you know, be it trauma or whatever, um, in- in- going on in the show. Josh Wigler: Yeah. I think- I think that it's exactly right, that like from birth, you know, and in many ways, some of these- these kids exist, literally were created literally for the purpose of [laughs] war, right? Richard Lawson: Yeah, right. Josh Wigler: You know, like, uh, for this war for the crown, so, yeah. Of course, for some of them, at least, the lesson was really going to take, and for Aemond, it seems like it has sunk all the way deep to the roots. Uh, and he's the one who's like saying to- to Alicent, like, "I was just saying how proud I am of my family. Uh, it seems as though my nephews aren't as proud of theirs." Uh, and there's almost a fight between Daemon and Aemond, uh, that would have been interesting to see the two of them exchange words, um, but it does not come to that. And, Alicent comes to Rhaenyra and she's the one who's trying to be like, "Please don't leave. Don't go back to Dragonstone. We can fix this." Uh, and Rhaenyra kind of takes her up on that to a degree, sounds like. She says, "Well, let me take my children home, 'cause I do not feel like they are safe here, but I'll come back. Uh, I will fly my dragon back, and we can hang out." Richard Lawson: Yeah. [laughs] Josh Wigler: Uh, and Alicent says, "The king and I would both love that." Richard Lawson: I'll take the Delta shuttle, you know. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: Uh, [laughs] just me. Josh Wigler: I'll take the red eye home, yeah. Richard Lawson: [laughs] Yeah. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: Yeah. So, again, still the possibility of peace at this moment. Uh, at this moment in time, uh, as dinner is wrapping up. There's a very quick scene of someone who was witness to all of this coming to Mysaria, if we remember. Mysaria, we have not seen her in quite some time, uh, Daemon's lover once upon a while who now seems to be in something of a power broker position here in, uh, in Westeros. No affiliation with the Marvel cinematic universe. Uh, and she, uh, hears that it's been quite a night at the castle. We really get no further elaboration on this, but, uh, scene's not in here without a reason, I think it's fair to say. Richard Lawson: Uh, yeah, th- yeah. [laughs] I think- I think that- Josh Wigler: It feels like it. [laughs] Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. Josh Wigler: It kinda feels like it. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: But, so, TBD on what's gonna happen with Mysaria. We get to the final scene of the episode, uh, and it is Alicent bringing, uh, Viserys to bed. He is really struggling. She's trying to help him, uh, you know, get comfortable. Uh, and this is the time that Viserys responds to who he believes is Rhaenyra- Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: Asking him the question from earlier about the Song of Ice and Fire. He says, "You wanted to know if I believe it to be true. Uh, don't you remember? Aegon, his dream, the Song of Ice and Fire, it is true. What he saw in the North, the prince that was promised, the prince to unite the realm against the cold and the dark. It is you. You are the one. You must do this. You must do this." Tragically, he is conveying this information to the wrong person. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Josh Wigler: uh, he believes he is speaking to Rhaenyra, who earlier he thought was Alicent. Now, it is Alicent, and she receives that information as it is conveyed to her, Richard. She walks away from this thinking, "I understand, my King." And, it's like, "All right, I guess I gotta go back into the shit." Richard Lawson: Yes. And, you know, one significant thing about this, at least if- if I'm remembering correctly, is that this is secret mythology. This is- this is secret lore that is only kind of shared- Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: In very privileged, um, conversations within, you know, the- the royal scheme. Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: And, so, Alicent doesn't even have any context clues for [inaudible 01:13:40]. She's never heard about that. Josh Wigler: Does not seem like it. Right, yeah. Richard Lawson: You know, and so there's that kind of miscommunication. There's the obvious miscommunication of who Viserys thinks he's talking to, but there's also like he's being kind of vague in a way, like she, you know, but I- I- I mean, my interpretation is that he's- she's like his dying wish was that I- that actually he made it- he's undoing what he promised to Rhaenyra, basically. Josh Wigler: Right. Right. Uh, and I think, not for nothing, again, about the name confusion, you know, he says, "Don't you remember Aegon, his dream?" If she has no context for what the hell he's talking about, she doesn't know he's talking about Aegon the Conqueror. Their firstborn son, who they- if she has her way, is the king of Westeros following Viserys, is Aegon. Uh, so, "Oh, he's talking about our son. He needs to be the one. He needs to unite the realm. You must do this. You must put him on the throne." Um, so she is now sort of like imbued with what she probably takes away as like something of this holy purpose, you know, uh, to- Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: To, that the Hightower cause is indeed true and just and is not just sort of like this imagined plot, but we actually have to go through with it. So, um, gosh, in his penultimate act, Richard, Viserys nearly stopped a war from happening, and it seems like if this is indeed his ultimate act, and it very much reads that way to me, um, that he may have, uh, forced it past the point of no return. Richard Lawson: Yeah. A testament to his kind of inevitable ineptness, you know, [laughs] that we saw again and again, uh, in his run. Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: But, you know, if Alicent had just named her son like George or something- Josh Wigler: Uh-huh. Richard Lawson: This would have been avoided entirely. Josh Wigler: It would have cleared it up, yeah. Richard Lawson: It's like every [inaudible 01:15:19] Shattered Glass where there's a scene- Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: Where Peter Sarsgaard goes walking in to like have the final reckoning about the plagiarism, and the- the receptionist says, "Pictures." And, he says, "What?" It's like, "Pictures. If you put pictures in the magazine, none of this could have happened." [laughs] Josh Wigler: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: And, I'm like watching the show, and it's like, "Different names. If you had just named them different thi- like- like there would- this confusion would be entirely moot. Josh Wigler: Yes. Uh, Shattered Dragon Glass. Richard Lawson: Right. [laughs] Correct, yeah. Josh Wigler: Is- is- is where we are at at this moment in time. Um, if this is Viserys' final moment, his final words, as we're sort of lingering with him in bed while he's alone, a single tear running down his cheek, he reaches up at the sky. The screen goes black, and he says, "My love." Um, so, um, if this is it for- for Viserys Targaryen, Richard, um, the final words on- on Paddy Considine and his contributions to this show. Richard Lawson: Well, Considine succeeded admirably. Viserys attempted admirably and failed, sadly. [laughs] Josh Wigler: Yes. Richard Lawson: You know. Josh Wigler: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Um, by no fault of his own. He was in an addled state, obviously. And, also, Alicent didn't go in there with, I think, nefarious intention, you know, and she just thought- thinks she heard what she heard. You know? And, um, but, yeah, Viserys is a- a really complicated, tragic figure, uh, a little Shakespearean, a little bit more modern, um, but, uh, yeah, well done. Not- not- he had a much different arc than I thought he would, so I like the- I like being surprised. Josh Wigler: Yeah, I re- what I really love about the way that this show treats Viserys Targaryen, uh, knowing what the premise of _House of the Dragon_ is, it's gonna be the succession show, right? So, like, clearly, like, the long-term view is Viserys Targaryen can't be on the throne forever, otherwise the show never gets to be what it's supposed to be. Um, that, I think, you know, you look at- at Viserys, sort of his positioning in the story in season one very similarly to a Ned Stark. Uh, the difference being in _Game of Thrones_, season one, you don't expect to lose Ned Stark. Uh, that's a surprise. It's a big twist. You're now trained as a person who's been through eight seasons of _Game of Thrones_ to expect the worst to happen to these characters. So, I think that the surprise for Viserys has not been like is he going to die or not. It has felt inevitable from, you know, before the first scene of the series. You know, it has felt inevitable from the trailers, from the- from the moment you hear a- a word about what the storyline is. The- the surprise has been like how long [laughs] he made it, how far he has- he has- he has come, and how long he has lasted, and what that longevity has meant to, um, to the tensions. Richard Lawson: Right. Josh Wigler: Like the fact that the has been in that position for so long has just left this, uh, you know, this sauce has been reducing. Uh, and it is deep and it is unctuous, and we are potentially ready to drink from it as we move forward into the penultimate episode of _House of the Dragon_ next week, Richard, titled The Green Council. Richard Lawson: Oh. Okay. So, Alicent, big episode for her, I'm- I'm predicting, or for Otto. Josh Wigler: Hightower green. Richard Lawson: Yep. Maybe we'll go to Old Town. Josh Wigler: Hightower green. Richard Lawson: Who knows? Josh Wigler: That'd be fun. Um, I think that's gonna do it for us here on _Still Watching_ this week, unless you have any parting thoughts about The Lord of the Tides, Richard. I thought another really great episode of the show. Richard Lawson: A great episode of the show. I think, just to your last kind of point, like you do think if he had just collapsed when these people were all children, if Viserys had just died then, and these grandkids weren't yet men grown who are capable of great violence, maybe this would have been an easier, if still difficult, transition. But, now, like great that he lasted this long, but I think he's- it's exacerbated the- the situation. Josh Wigler: We'll see how the situation unravels next week when we get into the Green Council. We would love to hear from all of you out there if you've got thoughts on The Lord of the Tides and how it is setting us up for these final two episodes of season one of _House of the Dragon_. Stillwatchingpod@gmail.com. That is the way to send in your feedback. Stillwatchingpod@gmail.com. Richard, where can people find you? What do you got going on here on _Vanity Fair_? Richard Lawson: Uh, I'm at- on Twitter @Rylaws and just the usual reviews and whatnot on VF.com. Amazing. I'm at @roundhoward, where we can find me. I am recapping _House of the Dragon_ here on VF.com every single week, including next week when we return to discuss episode nine, the Green Council. Huge shout out to the great Dave Gonzales for making this podcast possible this week. Until next time, everybody, we will be back soon to discuss episode nine of _House of the Dragon_. Take care. Bye-bye.