Intro: "What do you watch, Ethan?" "Uh, what do we watch? Like documentaries. _Ted Lasso_ sometimes." "We love Ted Lasso." "Oh, you like it?" "Yeah, man." "Yes, of course." "So likable, right?" "Yeah." "I don't watch _Ted Lasso_." "I love it." "No?" "Yeah. Such a good guy." "Yeah." "So much content now. It's like there's billions of shows. Everyone's trying to keep up. It's kind of suffocating." "Honestly, it's too much." It's like we're all entertaining each other while the world burns, right?" "We're all just zombies, you know?" Richard Lawson: Hello and welcome to _Still Watching_ a weekly television recap podcast from _Vanity Fair_. I'm Richard Lawson and I'm so excited this season of _Still Watching_ to be talking about a darkly comic, comically dark, sexy, sad, scary HBO show, _The White Lotus_, um, which had his first season in 2021. It won a bunch of Emmys, got rave reviews from critics like me, and wasn't necessarily going to have a second season because it was kind of built as a mini series, a one-off, but it was such a sleeper success that HBO gave Mike White, the writer/ director, uh, the go ahead, and now he's back for season two with mostly a new cast, plus one holdover from the first season. So yes, we're gonna be talking about _White Lotus_ season two on this podcast. Every week we'll be talking about the, you know, an episode of the show. We will have theories, we'll hear from you guys hopefully, in the audience, and we'll just kind of break down a show that is really fun to break down because there's so much going on in it. We'll have interviews with cast members. Various, uh, people from the cast and creative team. Uh, this week, later in this episode, we'll have a chat with Will Sharpe who plays Ethan on the show. Will Sharpe: You know, this season I think feels arguably a little darker than the first. Um, its focus is to do with relationships, I think, and Mike's kind of diving head first into all of the messiest, like gnarliest aspects of of love. Richard Lawson: As you listen and if you have any thoughts or theories or questions, um, you can get in touch with us, uh, at _Still Watching_, we're at stillwatchingpod@gmail.com. Um, and then throughout this season of the podcast we'll kind of try to answer some of the questions or address some of your concerns, criticisms even, we welcome those. Um, and to do all that, it's my great pleasure to be joined by one of my esteemed _Vanity Fair_ colleagues, that's Chris Murphy, who, who writes about entertainment and popular culture for us at VF. Hi, Chris. Chris Murphy: Hi, Richard. I'm so happy to be going on this journey with you. Richard Lawson: I take it you're a big lo uh, big _White Lotus_ fan? Chris Murphy: I am, yeah. I am a huge _White Lotus_ fan. Uh, I think the show is, you sort of really captured it. It's so many things at once. It's dark, it's funny, it's satire, it's escapism, it's, it's sexy. It's, it's, it's sort of enveloped so many things in culture and so many things that I love about tv. All the while giving incredible actors and actresses, just so much meat to play with. They just get to have the time of their lives and these beautiful. Uh, vacation venues and really have like an acting feast, which I... big lover actresses, a big lover of Jennifer Coolidge, getting to see her sort of, you know, chew the scenery, what's not to love? So I'm a big fan. Richard Lawson: I think one of the best things about season one is that people didn't really see it coming? Like I feel like HBO didn't even market it that much. Chris Murphy: I swear I did not know it existed until like two episodes into the series. Richard Lawson: Yeah, I started watching screeners and then like by episode three I was like, wait, is this brilliant? And then everyone else agreed. So it was really exciting. Chris Murphy: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And, uh, I, and the fact too that it was made, the first season was made like, sort of in the pandemic. It was like a pandemic project and sort of was set, you know, all at one hotel and it was able to be, uh, just so, uh, so well acted, so- touched on so many different topics from race to class to privilege to money to murder to queer themes. I, yeah, I think Mike White, he knows what he is doing and I'm excited to go on the journey with him again. Richard Lawson: Yeah. So for those not aware, _The_ _White Lotus_ was supposed to be a miniseries, it's now just a regular series with one recurring character. Um, but it set, typically, well, these two seasons are set at very fancy resorts. Uh, the first season was in Hawaii, and this time we're in beautiful Taormina, Sicily. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: Um, which adds a kind of a fun euro flare. And the premise is essentially that it all takes place over one week. And so each episode is roughly a day in the lives of various hotel guests. Usually they're kind of in little narrative pods that sometimes overlap, but in this season, um, don't really do that. Well, this first episode at least, we don't really see much of that. But, and then there are the hotel employees. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: Famously Murray Bartlett last season and this season we have a new kind of stern Italian hotel manager. Chris Murphy: Sort of the anti Armond, if you will, in Valentina. Richard Lawson: Yes, exactly. Um, and she's played by the wonderful, wonderfully named Sabrina Impacciatore, I believe her name is. Please forgive if we, uh, keep, um, butchering italian names. Chris Murphy: Italian names, yes. I took Italian for, uh, two semesters in college and was not very good at it. I think I said non lo so,. I don't know most of the time, but we'll do our best with the Italian. Richard Lawson: I also took Italian and I was even in Sicily this summer. Chris Murphy: God, we're so qualified to do this podcast. Richard Lawson: And I would try to speak Italian and then the hotel people would be like, in like perfect English, be like, Sir, what do you need? Like, like they really- Chris Murphy: Let's not play this game. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Um, so the season, last season opened at an airport and where we found out that someone was dead. Chris Murphy: Yeah. Richard Lawson: And then it jumped back in time. And this season we have a similar thing where a character, uh, Daphne. Played by Meghann Fahy from- Chris Murphy: _The Bold Type_. Richard Lawson: Right? Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: Um, she's swimming, uh, in the, the beautiful ocean on her last day of her trip, and then she bumps into a body. Scene from "The White Lotus": "Have you guys been here before?" "No." "The hotel's perfect and the staff is excellent. The food is amazing." "I've heard." "And the wine, I mean..." "We are so excited." "Italy's just so romantic. Oh, you're gonna die. We're gonna have to drag you outta here." "Oh, I'm sure." "Well, I'm gonna get in the water one last time, but you guys are gonna have such an amazing trip." "Thank you. It was nice to meet you." "You too." "Safe travels." "Thanks. Bye." "Bye." Richard Lawson: So we want to hear something funny, trivia bit about that opening scene, the two women that she's talking to, um, we're on _Survivor_ with Mike White. Chris Murphy: No way. Richard Lawson: Yeah, yeah. Chris Murphy: Oh my gosh. Richard Lawson: He became like really close with them and I believe one of them also pops up in the first season, but I could be wrong about that. Chris Murphy: That, yeah, that's absolutely fantastic. Richard Lawson: So it's like his two survivor girlies. He's like, Hey, want to come to Sicily and film a scene on the beach and then you can have like a free vacation. Chris Murphy: That's called paying it forward. That, that I, that I love to see. Richard Lawson: Right, exactly. You screw them over on the island and then later you're like, Hey, come on to set. Chris Murphy: What a smart player. Richard Lawson: You know, there were a lot of expectations, I think for this season and sometimes second acts like sophomore seasons, whatever are really hard. Chris Murphy: Sort of the Sophomore slump is what it's sort of famously called. Richard Lawson: So do you think it's slumped? Chris Murphy: I, I don't. I, I think we're trying to do something different this season than what happened last season in terms of sort of take us to Hawaii and sort of interrogating race and class from sort of an, uh, an indigenous society and what does... sort of- privilege and hyper privilege in terms of the hotel chain. Like that doesn't seem to be necessarily the conflict here. Richard Lawson: Right. Chris Murphy: And I think that's, which makes sense because we're in Italy, which is a, you know, a completely, it's a completely different environment than, um, Hawaii. So I, I sort of had to like, retrain my brain be like, Okay, we're not gonna just tell the same sort of story again- Richard Lawson: Right. Chris Murphy: -For a second season, that's not what we want. Um, I do feel that over the course of the first episode, which again, pilots are always tricky. You have to do a lot of exposition, you have to get a lot of, you know, we're getting introduced to, you know, 10 brand new characters. We just sort of go through and sort of talk about the, uh, the new dynamics at play. I think that for season two, in this sort of exploration of sort of privilege and sex and romance and relationships, I do feel like we're moving into really fertile, really interesting territory. So a little bit of a slow burn. It took me like definitely a little bit at the beginning to sort of recontextualize why we're here and what we're doing at this resort, but by the end of the episode, specifically with Michael Imperioli, I was like, Okay, we've got, we've got something here. We've got a story. Richard Lawson: Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, he, Mike White follows a lot of the same template of the first season where it's like the, the, the thing then the jump back in time and then you're on a boat and you kind of are starting to meet and, and at first you're like, Well, he's just repeating. But that's kind of necessary, I think, because we're dealing with these different groups of characters and we also, I think, kind of want to feel like we're arriving with them. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: You know, it's like, you know, the Fire Island ferry, that anticipation. Chris Murphy: Absolutely. We're all on this trip together. We're all on the boat together and we're getting off. Richard Lawson: Right, right. Exactly. Um, so yeah, and I think, I think that, you know, the first season was so much about colonial politics in Hawaii or the legacy of those politics- Chris Murphy: And the implications and the fallout of that. Richard Lawson: Yeah, and the blithe rich, and this is certainly about the blithe rich as well, but it doesn't feel, based on this first episode, um, that we're gonna get into quite so much like political stuff maybe? Chris Murphy: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Like it's, maybe this one is more about gender wars and sex and all that kind of stuff. And, and, um, which is fine, you know. Chris Murphy: Which is fine. I'm hopeful... I, well, I hope that the reason why we're not doing that is because that was sort of the conception of the show and not because like the discourse surrounding, you know, the colonization, you know, and, and those sort of topics that came up last season dissuaded Mike White from approaching that again. Richard Lawson: Right. Chris Murphy: Because I think, you know, there is a lot, you know, a lot of deferring sides on that. But I do think he, he gave us a lot of talk about, and there was, you know, there were, he had, he made some really salient points about that. But again, we're in Sicily, you know, it's pasta, it's, it's wine, and it's Roman. There's a, there's a completely different vibe, I would say. Richard Lawson: There is. Yeah. I mean, I suppose he could have like done something about like the refugee crisis in Italy or something. But at the same time, [inaudible]. Right, right, exactly. That, that might be maybe he's not best equipped to, to deal with that. Chris Murphy: Um, and sometimes staying in your lane can be a really wonderful thing and a really great thing. But I mean, there's so many, I mean, even from, I love sort of what you just said about the, the ferry onto, into White Lotus, sort of introducing us all to this new band of characters and sort of having our, you know, our anchor, Tanya McQuoid. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Chris Murphy: Our Jennifer Coolidge just sort of anchor us and, uh, uh, keep us, you know, uh, sort of together on this journey as we meet all these new characters, which I would love to get your thoughts on. Who, who popped? What, what do you, what, what did you feel about the dynamics of these new characters? Richard Lawson: Well, I think we should first talk about the old character. Ah, uh, I mean, no, she's not that old. Uh, Tanya played by Jennifer Coolidge, an Emmy winner. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: Really a, I mean, she's been around forever. She's had some great standout roles and things like _Best in Show_ and _Legally Blonde_, but this feels very significant for her. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: Like it's because she's being funny, but it's also a bit of dramatic acting. And I guess my question going into the first uh, episode of the season, and I wonder if you felt the same way. Is, is, does a little of her go a long way? In that like, do we really need, do we need more of Tanya because she's such an outsize character? Do you think she still feels like a human in this first episode? Chris Murphy: In the first episode, I will say I was a little, I was a little bit like, oh, of all the charac- and again, Jennifer Coolidge is so wonderful and she's such a fantastic actor. She wasn't necessarily the character that I would want the story to continue from the first season. If just from a clear, from a character perspective. Um, I did also feel like, have we run as far as we can with, you know, Tanya's sort of hysterics and her antics and whatnot. Um, but I, I gotta say, going back to like sort of her performance, the way that she's able to like color a line even if it's about macarons or - Richard Lawson: Yeah, yeah. Chris Murphy: I'm like, oh, uh, she's a presence that like I will always appreciate on screen. And I do feel like there is more to her story, given her relationship with her, um, with Greg, her new husband. Some of you who watched _White Lotus_ season one will remember Greg played by Jon Gries because that is the man that Tanya meets sort of towards the end of the season and then they fall in love despite all of her quirks and her absurdities, um, and it turns out as we learn in season two, end up getting married. So Tanya is on her trip to the White Lotus with her new husband, Greg, um, and with Portia, her, uh, assistant who nobody wants there. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. Scene from "The White Lotus": "I just don't know what the big deal is. I mean, I don't know why you're so bothered." "Because I said no." "Because it's supposed to be romantic. Because it's a vacation in Sicily, for us." "Great. It's not like she's like gonna be in our bed and stuff, you know? I mean, she has her own room." "Tanya, get rid of her." "All right, I'll get rid of her. I'll get rid of her. All right?" "Fine." "Hey. Um, you're gonna have to get lost." Chris Murphy: I was definitely, I was skeptical of, okay, is this gonna be diminishing returns from her? And I do think that like, at the, at least the beginning of the first episode, we don't know exactly why. I didn't really feel like, oh, I'm so happy that Tanya is back with us. Richard Lawson: Right. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's a fine line with her where, you know, once in a while a joke, like when when Greg like goes to the bathroom, he's like, I'm gonna gonna wash up. I have swamp crotch. And she says, he's always thinking of me. Like, that's funny. But I think it's good that White is restrained and not giving her one of those lines every scene. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: You know? Chris Murphy: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Um, I do hope that with her arc this season, I don't know where she's headed, but the Greg of it all gives me concern, you know? He's in the bathroom talking to maybe someone at work, but who knows who he's talking to. And he is being kind of mean to her about the macarons and like the her weight and stuff. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: I kind of hope that it's not just a, the expected like, Oh, he turns out to be just after her money and yeah, he's a jerk. Like I hope that there's a twist there in store. Chris Murphy: Yeah. I also hope that it's not Occam's Razor where it's like, you know, the simplest answer is, you know, he just like doesn't love her and she's, you know, and we learn that she is, you know, half a billionaire. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Chris Murphy: You know, so we have a little bit more context about her money, um, this season, which is kind of fun. And I, yeah, I don't necessarily wanna see, you know, just the same sort of shades of like Jennifer Coolidge, you know, and this character, you know, needing companionship, which is that such a deep thing for her. And it is such a, you know, a d a topic that you can really dive into. But I do wanna see, you know, some new colors from her. Which is what the first season gave us, you know, with her. Richard Lawson: She's changed, I think by, by the, the, her experience of the first season. I mean, she's married now to someone she met at the White Lotus in Hawaii. Um, and yeah, I think, I think my hope is that we'll get sort of new facets of Tanya. Chris Murphy: Did you expect Greg to sort of be- Richard Lawson: No- Chris Murphy: kind of an asshole after the first season? Richard Lawson: Oh yeah. I mean, I kind of assumed because it's Mike White and he, I think more in his early career he could be kind of like almost nihilistic. Like kind of mean to his characters, I guess. Chris Murphy: Yeah. Richard Lawson: And I think over the years between this and _Enlightened,_ you know, some other stuff, he's, he's softened a little. Yeah. Um, and I think he does love Tanya and he, I mean, obviously he loves Jennifer Coolidge. Um, they're, they, it's weird that they hadn't worked together before. Chris Murphy: Yes. That is actually completely bizarre. Richard Lawson: Um, but now we have, as a kind of a ballast to Tanya's crazy energy is the relatively more normal Portia, her assistant played by Haley Lu Richardson, who's a great young actor, people should see _The Edge of Seventeen._ Chris Murphy: Oh yeah. She's been in, she was a Disney girl too, growing up. Richard Lawson: Oh, was she really? Chris Murphy: Yeah, that, yeah. Richard Lawson: Um, and was she on Survivor? Chris Murphy: I mean, at this point, who wasn't? Um, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's great to sort of have someone like who's grounded in reality to sort of play off Tanya and, and to play off Jennifer Coolidge, in that way. And I, I, I really empathized with, I've had some crazy bosses in the past and worked for some, I've worked for some women who are very similar to Tanya actually. Richard Lawson: Okay. Well you are from the theater, so. Chris Murphy: Yeah, you know, there are a lot of big char big characters in there. Richard Lawson: Just say Patti LuPone, it's okay. She's not an actor anymore. She said she quit. Chris Murphy: She did. She, she, she gave her, she gave away her equity card. Um, but I'm used to sort of, it was, it's, it was very fun and I think it, uh, I'm very curious to see how this sort of, you know, more grounded, you know, younger, potentially maybe a little lost, uh, character of Portia plays off of Jennifer Coolidge and Tanya and deals with her antics and you know, one second she's- I will say the one thing that was un- that I didn't buy in the first season, just given that we're after the pandemic, is when Tanya sends, uh, Portia away because her husband, Greg, doesn't want the assistant on the trip, but says you can't go too far because Tanya needs her. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Chris Murphy: And so then they're at the hotel restaurant together and Haley Richards- Haley Lu Richardson's Portia has to hide behind a big, uh, menu. Which in the days of QR codes, that wouldn't happen anymore. Richard Lawson: Fair point. Although, I don't know, maybe The White Lotus is too fancy for QR codes. Chris Murphy: I would hope so. I would hope so. Richard Lawson: Yeah. She's also, um, Portia complaining about being stuck in the room and it's like, I think your room's probably pretty nice/ it's like, it's not the worst thing. Chris Murphy: It's not a Days Inn here. Richard Lawson: Yeah. But she seems to be dealing with some bigger issues then having a difficult boss. Like we see her by the pool, um, talking to a friend on the phone and she's, yes, complaining about Tanya, but she's also talking about maybe losing her mind a little bit during quarantine, which you know, we can relate to. But also just it feels like there's something else going on with her. Like some kind of mental shift or collapse or something that I'm curious to see kind of sussed out. Chris Murphy: Yeah. So we set this sort of the stage for, but again, you know, we've got six more episodes to go, so yeah. So we've got a slow burn. Richard Lawson: _Still Watching_. We'll be back in just a moment. Um, I'm very curious what Lucia and Mia are gonna be doing this season. Um, it kind, it's, it, it's like, are they gonna be like the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern? Like, are they gonna be kind of like zelic like figures who just kind of pass through these people's lives? Or, or are they gonna kind of start to instigate their own action? Chris Murphy: And I will say, given what we talked about earlier in terms of season one being, uh, you know, taking us outside of the hotel and introducing, introducing us to, you know, characters who work at the hotel. I love that we have these two characters that sort of ground us in actual Italy. And sort of these local characters to sort of, that provide, you know, a complete class distinction. I mean, we, we see Lucia being like, I'd love to go to Hollywood. You know, I, I would love to go to Hollywood. And she's clearly a working girl. She's a sex worker. She does not have access to this hotel. I mean, her relationship with Valentina, woo. It's a little, it's a little, it's a little fraught from the jump. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Chris Murphy: Um, and so even though we might not be getting with season two of _White Lotus_ as sweeping of a commentary on, uh, class and... as we might have been getting in season one. We're still in conversation there. Richard Lawson: Oh yeah, for sure. And I think that, you know, we can, we can watch the show even if it's never plainly stated on the show, like we, we can watch it, um, with the knowledge that like, Sicily is very poor. You know, there are pockets of it, like Taormina, other tourist towns that like have these lovely things, these expensive things, um, but the majority of the island is, I think, among the poorest parts of Italy. So like it would seem that Mia and Lucia are from more of that, you know? Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: And so the first season was so I think, but at the end was so powerful in the way that it kind of illustrated how disposable, you know, service workers are, and the people - Chris Murphy: The first episode of the first season, you know, we follow this one woman who [inaudible] then she completely disappears, right? Richard Lawson: Exactly. Yeah. Chris Murphy: So we don't have that device here, but that's such a great, I mean that's, that's such a difficult situation... Richard Lawson: He can't repeat that, you know? I think that's the thing. He would be like, we're just gonna do the same thing, but in Italy. So, it's interesting watching what he... not, I mean, maybe kind of edits out like or of the template, you know, and what he's kind of add in. I think this episode, when I first watched it didn't quite grab me as much as I hoped because I think he hasn't added everything in yet. Chris Murphy: Yes, yes. There's more, uh, ingredients to be added into the stew and that definitely makes sense. Yeah. But I do think Mia and, uh, Lucia will be, you know, are gonna be key ingredients. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Um, money is also a big topic for four other characters. Chris Murphy: Oh my goodness. Richard Lawson: We have, uh, Harper and Ethan Aubrey Plaza and Will Sharpe. Ethan is some kind of tech guy Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: Who has just sold a company and is now rich. Chris Murphy: Tech big shot. Richard Lawson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but not, um, not like swaggering around. Like he's not that kind of guy. Chris Murphy: Yeah. Richard Lawson: He doesn't seem like a Silicon Valley bros we read about too often. Chris Murphy: Yes. No, that's definitely more of a Cameron vibe. Richard Lawson: Right. Chris Murphy: Who more of his, more of the Theo James character who is a finance guy. Um, he is, uh, very, very confident, very sort of frat boy energy. Very much, yeah, very much... they're very much diametrically opposed in that way. And we learned that they're, uh, friends because they were roommates in college. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Chris Murphy: You know? Richard Lawson: Yeah. Chris Murphy: And he even says like, we weren't even friends, we were roommates and that's why -. Richard Lawson: Right. We got put together. Chris Murphy: Yes. Like yeah, it wasn't by choice, it was sort of by fate. Richard Lawson: Yeah. And, and for some reason, Cameron and uh, Daphne, who we mentioned earlier, uh, who is his wife, they've invited, uh, Ethan and Harper on this trip for mysterious reasons. Maybe just to hang out, maybe because they're now part of the wealthy class. Chris Murphy: Well, it's very clear that they're definitely not friends. Richard Lawson: No, no, no. And in fact they went in private, Cameron and Daphne kind of, well, more Cameron kind of talk shit about Harper. Who is a little uptight, a little uncomfortable, but also in the complicated way that Michael White writes characters, she's right about a lot. Chris Murphy: Oh, a hundred percent. Um, and so we sort of, I, we sort of get these two couples, one that's, uh, seems maybe less happy but with each other, but more culturally aware. And one that is blissfully ignorant, if you will. Richard Lawson: Right, right. Well, yeah. I mean that's the thing of that blissful, part of that is like, when Daphne says to Harper kindly, Oh no, the world's not gonna end. I kind of was, I, I was like, Oh, good. You know, like, I felt like comforted by her sentiment even though she has no idea what she's talking about, because yes, she doesn't read or, or follow the news or anything like that. Um, I'm really curious what this foursome is gonna get up to, because yeah, you could see the obvious possibilities in Harper and Cameron go up to Harper's room to - she's getting sun tan lotion. He's getting a bathing suit because his luggage was lost because they made the mistake of not flying through Munich as- Chris Murphy: as Valentina- Richard Lawson: as Valentina said. Chris Murphy: Shrewdly pointed out. Richard Lawson: Um, and he gets naked in front of her. And I think- Chris Murphy: Can we talk about that? We have, we have to talk - Richard Lawson: Right. Um, he knows she can see him, right? Chris Murphy: Yes. Yeah. I, I have to, I, I got- one I gotta shout out bisexual king Mike White for - Richard Lawson: Right. Chris Murphy: Filming it in such a really sort of erotic and sort of sultry way, where, I mean, from my, you know, we're only one episode in and we don't know too much about these characters yet, but he seems to be the type of alpha male guy who, who wants to be seen, who - Richard Lawson: Right. Chris Murphy: And wants to attract, um, attention from many women, not only his wife. Richard Lawson: Well, he knows he's good looking. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: He knows he's rich. Um, It sounds like he's always been kind of an asshole. Um, you know, he's at dinner calling Ethan the original incel. He's making fun of his sexual prowess, but at the same time he's being kind of flirty with Ethan. He's like, you're a good looking guy. I would do you. You know, all this stuff. And you're just like, I, Yeah- I think that he's just like, I, I kind of need everyone to be attracted to me. Um, but yeah, I think the obvious storyline would be Harper and Cameron have some sort of affair. Maybe that is what's gonna happen? Chris Murphy: Maybe that is, but maybe- Richard Lawson: But I kind of feel like Mike White is gonna bob instead of weave. I don't know. Chris Murphy: I do, yes. Uh, he probably will bob instead of weave, but I do also love sort of like the, the meta narrative, the story about the moor. The moor's head. Richard Lawson: Right, right. Chris Murphy: So they sort of set that up, you know, in terms of, uh, it's like a sculpture. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Chris Murphy: Of a moor's head - Richard Lawson: And they really are everywhere in Sicily. Chris Murphy: Really? I've never been. Are they really everywhere? Richard Lawson: Like every gift shop, like every restaurant. Like they are a very, very visible like sign of Sicily. Chris Murphy: Yeah. I'm like, okay, this is definitely at play in amongst the, like, the dynamic of these two couple's relationships and I wonder how that's actually going to go. Cause I don't wanna, I also don't wanna discount, um, Meghann Fahy's Daphne. I think she's, you know, even though she's sort of, uh, wife in a, you know, in a little ditzy maybe, I think she might be shrewder and more calculated than we, than we might give her credit for from this first episode. Richard Lawson: And who knows? Maybe her on the beach in the little prologue was all an act. Maybe, maybe She knows she had a terrible [audible]. Chris Murphy: Aubrey Plaza's performance in this first episode is, is so... it's, it's sort of sending up, you know, the way that we've been sort of taught to think about her in _Parks and Rec _as sort of this sort of like more, more serious person. Richard Lawson: Kind of monotone. Yeah. Chris Murphy: Kind of monotone. But there are so many more shades of sort of insecurity and you can see her sort of overthinking everything and trying her best to sort of, well, not even trying her best, but like, knowing that she doesn't wanna connect with these people and look and sort of be in the situation and vaguely fighting through it. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Chris Murphy: Um, and realizing, I mean, there a second dinner scene when she tells Ethan not to order the white fish and is intensely controlling and is, you know, to the point where like, the other couple was snickering at her. I thought it was so interesting and so true to actual, you know, couple dynamics where she actually clocked that and walked it back and was like, I'm being crazy right now. Richard Lawson: Right, right. Yeah, she's, she's in dialogue with herself. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: She, she knows that she can be a little rigid or whatever. Something that I wanted to make sure we talked about was a scene between Harper and Ethan after that dinner and they're in bed doing a kind of postmortem of the day or the evening, and they're of course talking about Cameron and Daphne, and they mentioned the fact that Harper is at least part Puerto Rican. Chris Murphy: Yeah. Yeah. Richard Lawson: And that Ethan is, um, well, the actor Will Sharpe is half Japanese. They, they see that as definitely an othering factor in this relationship. Scene from "The White Lotus": "Thanks for making more an effort. I mean, yeah. They kind of live in a bubble, but they're fun. Right?" "They don't vote, Ethan." "I know what the fuck? They don't read the news." "They don't read. It's like, what do they even talk about? Is that what happens when you're rich for too long? Your brain just atrophies." "I mean, they seem happy." "No way. It's a front." "It's good to have, you know, diverse friends, I guess." "Yeah, I think we're their diverse friends. They're white passing diverse friends." "Yeah, you're right." Chris Murphy: I will say I, I think that it definitely is an othering factor, and it was smart, I think because he said white passing. You know, they used the terminology, white passing, and I was like, I mean, at least Harper reads white to me. You know? I was like, that's a, you know, I think there might be some discussion there. But at least there is sort of an awareness that they're not, they're not the same culturally. You know, And that's, I think, is an interest- that was a very interesting and important, important to establish at the jump at the top. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Well, I think that's a great place to cut to my interview with Will Sharpe, where we talked about that scene and several other things. Very charming guy. Let's hear that now. Well, I'm so thrilled to now to be on the line with one of the stars of the _White Lotus_ Season two Will Sharpe, who Plays Ethan. Will, thanks for talking with us. Will Sharpe: Hi. Thanks for having me. Richard Lawson: So, I kind of wanna, before we get into the nuts and bolts of who Ethan is and what's going on in this first episode, uh, I'm curious how you got involved in the show. Were you a big _White Lotus_ season one fan and kind of made it a mission to, to do the next thing with Mike White? Or how did it come about? Will Sharpe: I mean, I was a fan of the show, um, and a fan of Mike White. But no, it wasn't... I mean, I didn't, I guess, dare even to imagine that I might be involved in a second season. Um, for me it was just an email that came in asking to tape for it, um, which I did. And then, you know, a couple of rounds later, I was very surprised uh, to, to be a part of the second season. And I think I kind of just assumed it was some kind of, um, terrible mistake that they'd made. But yeah, obviously very excited to be, you know, to have the opportunity to work with Mike and so many other brilliant people. Richard Lawson: And to be in this beautiful place in Sicily. Um, I, I'm curious what the, what the filming was like. I mean, obviously there were probably Covid restrictions and all that stuff, but, uh, I would imagine also, especially because you're mostly with these other three actors. It's the four of you in so many of your scenes. Will Sharpe: Yeah. Richard Lawson: What was that kind of intensity like both being on location and, and in this little tightly knit quartet? Will Sharpe: I mean, I guess, you know, it was, as you say, like a sort of immersive acting experience in that we've all gone to a place that we wouldn't normally be in order to play characters who have gone on vacation to a place they wouldn't normally be. Um, and Taormina in Sicily, which is where we shot, you know, the majority of the show is a sort of extraordinarily beautiful town. Um, and Mount Etna, the volcano sort of looms quite large over it in a, I found quite surreal way. I felt like I almost had to remind myself on a daily basis that that's not a hologram like that really is a volcano . Um, but yeah, it meant that, you know, we had time to kind of get to know each other and to establish, you know, like a, a chemistry. And it meant that, you know, whenever we were on set, I think hopefully there was, uh, like a level of comfort and trust, uh, with one another that, you know, gave us a little bit of space to play, if you know what I mean. Richard Lawson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, totally. I mean, I think atmosphere is such an important part of this show, and you couldn't do much better than having Mount Etna looming over you, with, you know, this thing that has caused so much destruction over the millennia. Um, I was actually in Sicily with my family earlier this summer, and, um- Will Sharpe: Oh yeah. Richard Lawson: I, I kept remarking to, to my mom and my boyfriend, I was like, it just looks like of cartoon volcano. It's like pointy with like mist coming out of the top. Like, it's, it's really something. Will Sharpe: Yeah. Um, also like it would occasionally just erupt. Richard Lawson: Right. Will Sharpe: And, you know, all the locals, uh, and we'd be like, Oh my God, it's, and the locals would just be like, Oh yeah, don't worry about that. You know, it does that. It does that sometimes. Richard Lawson: There is that sort of Sicilian, don't worry about that attitude in general, I think. Will Sharpe: Yeah. Yeah. Richard Lawson: Um, so you, you get involved with the show and then you start to kind of dive into Ethan and he's an interesting character in this first episode where we know that he has come into his very sudden wealth because he sold a company, right? And, um, but he doesn't seem to be someone who has aspired to that. He seems like kind of a humble guy. Is that, how do you see him, uh, on this initial first glimpse? Will Sharpe: I think that's fair. I think it's, he's also maybe someone who's almost, I felt like, sort of uncomfortable with his own success and almost like, kind of uncomfortable maybe with his own ability or something. And there's a sense that he's sort of suppressing his... suppressing his, like, competitive instincts, or even you could say like his male instincts in a sort of stereotypical way. So you, uh, you do find him in a place where he's sort of- it feels like he's conflicted in some way and he's, he's kind of holding a lot of stuff in. Um, so he's quite sort of, uh, internal I think in, in that first episode and sort of inscrutable, I guess. And, and we get, we get a sense of how he and Harper sort of found themselves in a place in their marriage where they, you know, they feel like they're honest with each other about everything, and they tell themselves that this is a good relationship, but we do get the sense that there's something about it that has gone a little stale or something, and that there's almost a kind of heaviness that they need to find a way to shake. And perhaps sort of Ethan is less, uh, in the first instance, less sort of curious to confront those issues, whereas Harper, I think partly because, you know, we've, we've come on vacation with these two very different people, very different couple in Cameron and Daphne. That seems to um, kind of make her question where, where we're at. Richard Lawson: Yeah. I mean, because one of the big questions that you have watching these scenes with the four of you together is like, why would they go on this trip? You know, like, like obviously Cameron and Ethan have this connection because they were in school together, but, but they, they do seem diametrically almost opposed to one another. So, in your mind, like what, as far as we know at this point in the, in the show, like what was Ethan's reasoning for, for wanting to do this vacation? Will Sharpe: I think that's a good question. I honestly feel like he hasn't really thought it through properly. I think, you know, there's, uh, as you say, it's like him and Cameron as our geographical friends that just happen to share a room in college. And if it feels like they've sort of become friends by mistake. Uh, and in a similar way it feels like they've ended up going on vacation together by mistake. Richard Lawson: Right. Will Sharpe: Um, and, um, you know, Harper has all these theories about, like, is there, is Cameron sort of now that Ethan's so successful, is he trying to get something out of him, um, in a business way? Um, but I think like, you know, maybe on a subconscious level, Ethan does have his own reasons for accepting the invitation. Beyond just like, hey, maybe like now we have this money, it's okay for us to go on a big splashy holiday like this. Let's, let's see how it goes. You know, just hang out with these people that, they're a little different to us, but they can be fun. They're funny, you know, just like see the funny side of how different they are to us. That's certainly like the narrative that he is like telling himself. I think it's like, hey, what's to lose? We're gonna a beautiful place and you know. Richard Lawson: Yeah. And there's almost something maybe even experimental about it where he's like, well, this is kind of the world we're gonna be in now that we're really rich and so maybe we should test it out and, uh, do, do that with someone I at least know a little bit, right, in, in, in Cameron. Will Sharpe: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's fair. Yeah. Richard Lawson: Do you have any sense in your head of, cause I don't- correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't really find out what the company was that he sold do we? Will Sharpe: No. There's sort of... the kind of- the tech side of it is very much off screen. Richard Lawson: Right. Will Sharpe: So I think, you know, we, he is carrying a sense of the pressure that that brings and how that has kind of, uh, perhaps overtaken his time and his, and his life somewhat. Um, and maybe how he uses it as a kind of escape from his personal life. Um, but in terms of like, what exactly like the technical aspect of that business was, um, doesn't seem to be what Mike is interested in. I think he's more interested in just where, where the couple are at. You know, where, where are Ethan and Harper at in their relationship and how is this vacation gonna, um, you know, change that. Richard Lawson: Yeah. I think certainly a less nuanced, subtle writer than Mike White would make potentially Ethan a kind of parody of that sort of tech bro, uh, nerd made good on, you know, some great idea. Um, and, and yet we see little flashes of, of that sort of personality type, let's say in, in a dinner scene where Cameron is saying, oh, he's the original incel. He's basically calling him like kind of a beta or whatever, you know, whatever the terminology is. How did you kind of consider that part of potential part of Ethan's character as you were kind of playing these scenes? Will Sharpe: Well, I mean, you know, as in sort of, uh, somebody who's half Japanese, I, you know, and I checked in with Mike about this, you know, at the very beginning, and we were absolutely on the same page. I didn't wanna fall into the traps of the sort of Asian nerd trope. Richard Lawson: Right. Will Sharpe: Um, if you like. And so, I really wanted to sort of bring a kind of, uh, a mess to Ethan and a, and a darkness actually. And, uh, I guess, you know, just to make him sort of complex and human and not kind of, uh, too, um, like overly consumed by like the mathematical aspects of his work, if you know what I mean. And more just like here he is on vacation with his wife. Um, he wants everything to be okay. But as you say, he's also sort of, kind of taking shit from all sides uh, in this first episode. And that kind of builds, I guess, as it goes on. And there's a feeling of how, you know, when we first meet him, he's, I feel like that you, we know there's some kind of a fight in him. There's some kind of a fire in him, some kind of a drive because he is achieved all of this success. But he really is kind of burying that pretty deep at the beginning. Um, and so I guess like, you know, together with Mike, like I wanted to try and find a way to just give a sense that something is simmering here and there is perhaps some kind of crisis, you know, whether it's his own crisis or a shared crisis with Harper or both is perhaps looming. Do you know what I mean? Richard Lawson: Yeah. Will Sharpe: Like, just to give a sense that like he is carrying something, but he's just not ready to confront it yet, or to make use of it. Richard Lawson: I think he's trying to be decent. You know, he's, he's, he doesn't wanna be like Cameron. He wants to sort of, yes, be successful, but not wield that, you know, against other people. And I think that's a really interesting kind of shading. And I think that, you know, you, you brought up being half Japanese and, and, and there's a scene where, where Harper and Ethan are talking about like, that they are maybe Cameron and Daphne's diverse friends because she's Puerto Rican and- Will Sharpe: Yes. Richard Lawson: You know, do you think the show is saying something about that kind of, it's not code switching exactly, but like the way that people of color like have to sometimes feel they have to act in largely white spaces? Will Sharpe: I definitely think it affects the dynamic somewhat, you know, with Cameron and Daphne. And it maybe adds to the feelings that Ethan and Harper seem to have that they don't like fully belong in this sort environment somehow. Um, but I guess, yeah, that, in that scene, it's almost as much about just like, you know, to your question earlier, like, why have they invited us on this holiday? Like, what are they getting out of it? Are they just, do they just wanna parade us around as they're sort of like liberal minded friends who sort of look different to make them look better? Like is it just like an exploitative invitation? Richard Lawson: Yeah, and there's also, I mean, You know, Mike, Mike White can be something of a saderist, I guess. And I so you, you look at a characters like Harper and Ethan who are the decent ones in, in, in the room when they're with Daphne and, and Cameron, certainly. Um, do you think, what do you think the show is trying to say about like, who Ethan is? Is there, is there satire in there at all? Will Sharpe: Um, it's an interesting question. I think, like, honestly, I think what the show is saying through Ethan becomes clearer as the series goes on. Richard Lawson: Right. Will Sharpe: And in the first instance, I think he's an enigma. He's an enigma, and he's kind of like a little bit abstract and he's, he's observing the other characters. Um, but he's not, he's not sort of like rising to any challenges that are thrown at him yet. Um, and you know, like with Cameron, it's almost like, and I guess with just with his success generally, it's, it's almost like he doesn't wanna play the game if he's gonna win, he wants to win because he's good. Like, and because he's smart and because he can do it. He doesn't want to kind of play this strange, uh, like personality cont- like he doesn't want, he doesn't wanna play that. He doesn't wanna enter that competition, if you like. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Will Sharpe: Um, but yeah, at some point maybe he'll find that he just has to, you know? Richard Lawson: It, it's funny, I, I've been on a kind of _Survivor_ binge lately and I just actually started watching the season that Mike is on. Will Sharpe: Right. Richard Lawson: And, and hearing you talk about playing the game and stuff. Yeah, like, I think what, what we know of Ethan right now, he's like, in the first couple episodes of any given _Survivor_ season, he's the one who's kind of playing the quiet game. You know, observing, uh, and, and deciding maybe where he can kind of make his, his move, I guess. Will Sharpe: Yeah, I mean without, you know, giving too much away, it's almost like circum- you know, like my, I guess like he set up this really brilliant sort of matrix, um, with these two couples where you have all the tensions to kind of play out within the partners, but also like across the partners and you have like a great dynamic between, um, Harper and Daphne and Ethan and Cameron as well. And so all of those tensions are gonna build and complicate. And I think when that starts to happen, that's when you see who Ethan really is, I guess. And um, so yeah, in the first instance, he's trying to sort of almost protect himself from that maybe. I dunno. Richard Lawson: Right. Um, speaking of tensions, there is a, a one line that kind of caught me, uh, in that dinner scene, uh, where Cameron is kind of talking about, you know, old, the old college days and he never slept with girls. Will Sharpe: Yeah. Richard Lawson: And he's like, But he's a good looking guy, like I do him or something. Are we supposed to read anything into that? Like is there maybe a sexual tension between Ethan and Cameron? Will Sharpe: Um, I mean, that's up to you, I guess. Richard Lawson: Eye of the beholder I guess. Yeah. Will Sharpe: Um, yeah, um, I, I mean, I guess like as Ethan, occasionally I ask myself the same question, um, but ultimately I don't, I mean is it spoilerly to say, I don't think so. Richard Lawson: No, No, that's good. That's fine. Yeah. We could- I'll just go and write some fanfic, you know, after the, after the season's over. Will Sharpe: Okay. Okay. Richard Lawson: Um, yeah, obviously we, we are a little bit bound because we don't want to jump ahead, uh, into further plot development, but I'm, I'm curious about this shoot. You know, going back to the Sicily of it all the, the, the kind of cloistered environment that you were in. Like, were you able as a cast or just on your own to like enjoy your surroundings or was it kind of all work all the time? Will Sharpe: No, it wasn't all work all the time and there was definitely like fun to be had and I think we got, you know, pretty close as a cast. Um, and you had time, like because of the ensemble nature of the show, you had time to kind of, I guess, reflect and meditate on the scenes coming up, um, which was unusual I guess for many of us. Um, but it was also like, you know, we certainly like, um, my experience of it was that I wanted to take the work really seriously. Um, and you know, this season I think feels arguably a little darker than the first. Um, it's focus is to do with relationships, I think. And Mike's kind of diving headfirst into all of the messiest, like gnarliest aspects of, of love in a way. And it's a, you know, there's a lot of dysfunction. But ultimately, like I did think this was also like a strangely romantic series, and I, to speculate, like it feels like it's quite a personal series to Mike. And so in order to deliver that, I felt like, you know, I needed to really invest in this character. And, and Aubrey and I as well also I guess just wanted to invest in that relationship as, as much as we could. And so there was a degree of kind of, uh, you know, even, even when, um, I was just sort of hanging out in Sicily, I felt like I was sort of trying to think about like, well, what's Ethan's experience of this? And it is a sort of like, you know, really stunning place. And I guess like something about like an expanse like that does put you in a, in a sort of existential mindset somehow. Richard Lawson: While you were doing this. Because, you know, the way the show is constructed, there are some characters who move between, uh, usually, you know, mostly the hotel employees between the sort of different pods of the story. Like, were you curious about - Will Sharpe: Yeah. Richard Lawson: What are, what's, what's Michael Imperioli doing? Like, what's, what's F. Murray Abraham up to? Like how aware were you of what the other pieces of this mosaic, uh, were doing? Will Sharpe: I, I mean, yeah. I mean, there was occasional scenes where we're sort of in the same room, like a dinner setup or something that would always be, I guess, a treat to sort of see it across a room. And obviously we'd be, you know, trading stories from set and kind of, uh, keeping up with each other about how it was going. But honestly like, uh, one of the biggest sort of pleasures of watching the episodes that I have was seeing, finally, other character stories and how they were playing out and kind of wow all of this was going on, you know, at the same time. So, I mean, I think what's great about it is like how all of the different strands speak to each other thematically. And so they do kind of like feed off each other, I think, in a really brilliant way. But yeah, the stories, um, don't really intersect, um, a great deal. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Maybe not physically, but yeah, certainly thematically everything feels, um, bound together. Will Sharpe: Yeah, exactly. Richard Lawson: In, in a fascinating way. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I, I hope that our, our listeners, uh, you know, are enjoying the show as much as, uh, I am. Um, because there's a lot more with Ethan to come. Um, sorry that we had to be so tantalizing about that stuff, but, you know, we look forward to spending more time with this. I like that you call him an enigma. I think that's a good description of, of who this character is and, and, uh, we can invent for ourselves what, you know, how evil the tech company he created is. Or maybe it's not evil at all. I don't, I don't know. Will Sharpe: Sure. Richard Lawson: Um, but yeah. Um, yeah. In the meantime, will thank you so much for talking to us. I really appreciate your time and, and congrats on the series. It's really exciting and I think it's gonna be big. Will Sharpe: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Richard Lawson: So one of the things I noticed about this season, I mean maybe my memory of the first season is dim at this point, but like there's a lot more sort of body talk kind of body humor. The grandpa is farting and then there's this awkward dinner scene, uh, with talking about can an 80 year old man get an erection. Scene from "The White Lotus": "Or... do you still get what? Hard, erections?" "Sure, like that." "Really?" "Albie." "Do you still like jerk off?" "Doctors say you need to release once a day. Otherwise you get backed up." "Wait a second. Doctors say you need to jerk off once a day?" "That's right. Which doctors say that?" "You need to drain the sac." Richard Lawson: Was it, was it were that, was that kind of humor too much on this or did, did it feel okay? Chris Murphy: It, I mean, it struck me as... maybe not, again, I don't know what conversations other people have with their grandparents. Uh, it's not something that I have ever really discussed at the dinner table, but it, it did strike me as sort of like boys dinner. Their, it made sense in context for where I think we're going with all three of the Di Grasso men. Richard Lawson: Right, Right. Yeah. And, and I think it only men would feel comfortable talking like that. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: At this fancy dinner. Maybe, maybe not. That's not true. I mean, the, the girls of _Sex In the City_ would be fine with that. Chris Murphy: Oh, Samantha would be all up in that. Richard Lawson: Charlotte would be, have fainted by then. But, um, but yeah, no, I think it is, it, it does definitely seem that that scene kind of crystallizes it for me that like this season is gonna be a lot about sex. Which will, obviously we have sex workers involved now. Um, I am curious where Valentina comes in on that. You know, because last season, Murray Bartlett's character, who had a very graphic - Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: Sex scene at the end of an episode. Chris Murphy: Absolutely. Richard Lawson: Um, he, he really became something of... not the moral center of the show, but the kind of, uh, audience surrogate of like not extraordinarily rich people who were just like, he was losing his mind and we were sort of following him down the rabbit hole. Chris Murphy: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Does it feel like Valentina is gonna be that this season? Chris Murphy: Well, I feel like they've, and Mike White sort of shrewdly sort of made Valentina, I think I said this earlier, the anti Armond in that she seems really not very good at her job. Richard Lawson: She says incredibly like blunt, rude things to guests. Chris Murphy: She calls Abraham old. Yeah, I, I imagine that she'll factor in sort of more deeply, but right now it seems like she doesn't know what she's doing. Richard Lawson: No. But at the same time, I think that Armond in the first season, who died? Chris Murphy: Yeah. Who did, he did, he did ultimately die. Richard Lawson: Like he was murdered be- partly because of this escalating fight that he had with Jake Lacey's character. Chris Murphy: Yeah. Richard Lawson: And I think that partly was born of the fact that like Armond was good at his job. He was very obsequious with the guests. But I maybe to a fault sometimes. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: He was a little smarmy. And so it's funny to see Valentina, like you said, the kind of anti him who doesn't have that tendency in her to be like, let me kiss these people's asses. And maybe that's an Italian thing. Chris Murphy: Yeah, maybe. Maybe it is. I mean, it doesn't, yeah, it might literally be a cultural Italian thing. Richard Lawson: You know, I, but I, but I think that in, in that, in this context, it's like, good. These people shouldn't be like, bowed down to all the time. And I, I like Valentina for that. Chris Murphy: Absolutely. I mean, she didn't say anything that was not true. Richard Lawson: Right. Chris Murphy: She was, maybe honest to a fault in a way that you don't normally see for service industry people. Yeah, but I do, I wonder, I guess to sort of circle back to sort of the overarching question in terms of, we guess, we know that Valentina makes it to the end of the show. Richard Lawson: We know that Valentina and Daphne and the two survivor, girlies. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: Who just got there are, they're the only ones we know are okay. And her employee, I guess. Chris Murphy: And her, Yes. And her employee, Rocco. Rocco who, yeah, who seemed nice. Do you have any sort of like initial thoughts or sort of like speculation in terms of who might make it, who might not? Or is it too soon to tell. It might be too soon to tell. Richard Lawson: No, no. I mean, I think it's fun to think about and we should probably plan to kind of do a little check in at the end of each of these episodes and sort of, um, change our theories or stick to our theories. Armond's death in the last season was sad. Chris Murphy: Yes, it was sad. Richard Lawson: And I wasn't expecting a sad death. I was kind of expecting a funny one. Chris Murphy: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: And so that kind of changed my predictive model for this show. I think obviously that first season, the point of Armond's death was to illustrate, well to bookend, the first episode where this pregnant woman gives birth at the hotel, at this employee and then is never seen again. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: And then midway through the season, cute surfer guy, uh, who works at the hotel. Chris Murphy: Yes. Richard Lawson: He gets dismissed. Chris Murphy: He gets dismissed. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Um, so Mike White was saying like, these people are, are shuffled in and out of existence while these rich people just don't care at all. So, Is he gonna make that point again? It doesn't seem so because we know that our hotel employees are alive. Chris Murphy: Yeah. Richard Lawson: So, um, I would worry, I think about our friends, Mia and Lucia. Chris Murphy: Oh, you- Richard Lawson: That's who I'm worried about. Chris Murphy: That's who you're worried about. Okay. So that's so interesting because I would be worried about Jennifer Coolidge. I- Richard Lawson: Oh- Chris Murphy: I, you know, I, from just like a filmmaking, from a TV making point of view, um, she's the only one who made it from the last season into this season. Um, we were just discussing like, is it diminishing returns? Is there much more? How much more of Tanya's story do we have to tell? And I don't think Mike White is sort of making artistic decisions based on, you know, Emmy's and, you know, things like that. But I think it could be pretty incredible, really sad, really shocking to lose Jennifer. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Well- Chris Murphy: And her husband doesn't seem to like her very much. So, that's just something- Richard Lawson: Something is amis there. Certainly sinister things do seem to follow Tanya, so - Chris Murphy: Yes, yes. Richard Lawson: So maybe, maybe her time is up. Chris Murphy: Despite her best efforts. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Uh, that would be, that would be shocking. I mean, the funny thing you mentioning like potential future seasons, when they announced this season, I was like, oh, no, they shouldn't. Why would you ruin... don't _Big Little Lies_ it. Like, don't- and then the like, maybe 10 minutes into this episode, I was like, oh no, keep doing it forever. I want more hotels across the world. Like- Chris Murphy: And just the, I mean, yes, I, I, I also had the same initial reaction, but then even when the theme song started and the new sort of like interpolated like Italian club remix of the first theme song. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Chris Murphy: Like when the beat dropped, I was like, oh, this is fantastic. I, I need this escape even though it shows us, and I think that's something that Mike White does so wonderfully is that he sort of exposes sort of the horrors of this sort of like privileged underbelly and sort of all of the disfunction and all of these sort of problems with society while also providing a bit of escapism. It's a little bit of fun. It's little sexy. It's a little, it's, I was like, Oh, I need to go. I gotta go back to Italy. Richard Lawson: Oh, absolutely. And I think that that in itself is its own sort of, uh, you know, design in that he's like, this stuff is attractive. It's alluring and that's part of what makes it so insidious. Chris Murphy: Yeah. Richard Lawson: You know, And um, so he both satisfies like, I mean, I could look at like the, the lush chairs in their rooms for like an hour, you know? Chris Murphy: Just the umbrellas at the hotel. Richard Lawson: Oh, gorgeous. Chris Murphy: When I saw, I was like, oh my God. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Chris Murphy: Oh, to die, literally to die for it. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Uh, well, we'll see who dies. Um, that's gonna do it for this week's episode. Um, you can email us by the way, if you have questions, theories about who's dead, anything like that. Um, we're at stillwatchingpod@gmail.com. Or you can come bother us sort of in person on Twitter. Chris Murphy: Oh, a hundred percent. Richard Lawson: Chris, where, where are you on Twitter? Chris Murphy: You can find me @christress, um, on Twitter and Instagram. Richard Lawson: And you're writing for vf.com. Chris Murphy: And I'm writing, yeah, I'm writing for vf.com every day. Richard Lawson: Chris does great things you should always read, especially when they send you somewhere. Chris Murphy: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Those are always good pieces. Chris Murphy: Oh, oh my God, that's so- They should send me to- Richard Lawson: I'm just trying to get you sent more places. Chris Murphy: Send me to the White Lotus in Sicily. Richard Lawson: We should. We should do the final episode of this podcast from Sicily. Chris Murphy: From there, yes. Absolutely, yes. On location. We should absolutely, be we- yes. That will be great for everybody. Richard Lawson: I think we have the budget for that. Chris Murphy: Yeah, they've got it. Condé Nast. Richard Lawson: Yeah, Right. Well this has been _Still Watching_ from _Vanity Fair_. Our editor and producer is Dave Gonzales, and we had production help from Peyton Hayes and Katey Rich. We had technical assistance from Jennifer Nulsen. Steven Valentino is our Executive Producer, and our theme music is by Alexis Cuadrado. We'll be back next week for episode two, looking forward to seeing you then.