Katey Rich: Hello, and welcome to Little Gold Men, the award season podcast from Vanity Fair. Speaker 2: It's such an honor to present this next award. Speaker 3: And here are the nominees- Speaker 4: And the Oscar goes to- Speaker 5: And the Oscar goes to- Speaker 6: And I can't deny the fact that you like me. Right now, you like me. Speaker 7: I'm the king of the world. Speaker 8: There's a mistake. Moonlight, you guys won best picture. Katey Rich: Hi, I'm Katey Rich. I'm here with Richard Lawson. Richard Lawson: Hello. Katey Rich: With David Canfield. David Canfield: Hi. Katey Rich: Rebecca Ford. Rebecca Ford: Hi. Katey Rich: Uh, as we recorded this the morning after the Golden Globe Awards, which came back and aired on NBC, and went pretty well, which we're gonna get into. Uh, much to our surprise in a, many ways, I think. We're also recording moments after the announcement of the SAG Award nominations, which is an awards show that will be airing on YouTube. It really is [laughs] quite a time for, uh, awards shows changing before our eyes. We'll talk about the Golden Globes and the SAG nominations and everything that means as Oscar voting kicks off this week as you hear this. Um, so David, I'm gonna start with you, 'cause you were in the room for us at the Golden Globes. There was a little bit of a process to get in the room, and get your ticket. But then once you sat down, I'm wondering if you saw the pretty entertaining and fun awards show that we all watched at home? David Canfield: Did you know movie stars love dressing up, and drinking champagne, and saying, "Hi," to each other, and winning gold trophies? Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: [laughs] 'Cause I kinda forgot that. Um, but they [laughs] really do. Um, that's honestly my review of being inside the room is that experience was back. They were happy. [laughs] Uh, they were a little delirious because there was no food on the tables, and there was way too much booze on the tables. Katey Rich: So Mike White was, was right, he wa- he didn't just get, miss out on dinner? David Canfield: So, so here's the thing, there were chicken club sandwiches in the bar, but the bar's all the way in the back. And if you're Mike White, or say, Steven Spielberg, you're sitting in the front of the ballroom. So the journey to the bar is about a 15-minute walk, and they don't let you back on the ballroom floor outside of commercial breaks. So then you have to stand back. So they're not going to get chicken club sandwiches. So they were starving because they had to starve. Richard Lawson: Well, uh, an enterprising young journalist could perhaps go get them some chicken sandwiches. You know? Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: I'd, uh- Richard Lawson: Just saying, missed opportunity. [laughs]. David Canfield: Next time. Next time. I had to focus on my own chicken sandwich obtaining. Katey Rich: Although you did spot w- at least one, uh, star who got stuck in the back. I don't know if he was getting sandwiches, but was definitely, uh, ferrying some drinks for people. David Canfield: Oh, uh, Glen Powell, three, looked like gin and tonics. I don't ... You know, it could've been anything, but that was what I'd like to pretend they were. Um, no people definitely went to bar, it just, you had to choose to go to the bar. And, you know, if you did that, God knows when you would come back. I saw, um, [laughs] Paris Barclay, the director, was getting a little impatient, 'cause he was not allowed to walk back to his seat for quite a while. Katey Rich: Wow. Um, so Richard, you re- reviewed the show for us at the end of the night. And I ... As you were saying right before we recorded, I think you were watching as I did throughout it being like, "Wait, this is going pretty well. Wait, these winners are pretty good. Wait, the Golden Globes are, are kind of back." Is that still how you're feeling the morning after? Richard Lawson: I mean, it's been a few years now of gritted teeth while watching televised award shows. You know, from the well-intentioned but, I thought, off-tone, uh, train station Oscars to the last years Oscars which felt like the People's Choice Awards, for [laughs] some reason. Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: Uh, the stage was too low as I've said 4,000 times. Um, this felt like a proper show like from before times. You know? And in some ways that arrives with a cynical clang, because it's like, well, darn it, the HFPA pulled it off and made us, not forget, but sort of put aside the problems that have, you know, long plagued that organization. Because it was just so refreshing to see something that felt normal, and so that was the pa- that was the good part of it. You know? Is that, like, I genuinely enjoyed myself. I thought minus, um, awkward moments, perhaps, with Jerrod Carmichael's more pointed jokes, and, you know, all, few loopy speeches, like, I thought. But you kind of expect, you kind of want that too. You know, that's part of the experience. I thought it was, um, they did a good job. And, you know, it went, I think, about as well as the embattled HFPA could've hoped. Katey Rich: I thought that a quote that Angela Bassett gave backstage in the press room ... I'm, uh, I'm honestly not clear how many winners were asked about, you know, whether or not they c- debated coming. I think we wondered for a long time how many nominees would actually show up. And she was basically like, "Look, they've done the work that they need to do to be worth- worthy of this comeback." And that seemed to be the prevailing attitude I saw there. Mean, Rebecca, you've, you've been talking to people around town. Like, were people really to put their faith in the HP- uh, HFPA, and was it rewarded? Rebecca Ford: I mean, it, it definitely felt like everyone was willing to give it a chance. And I do think it was rewarded. I mean, there's still conversations, obviously to be had about what has actually changed. But I think, looking at who won, it makes you feel like maybe this new voting body, you know, is more in line with what we would expect, and, and hope for with, um, uh, a voting group with this much power to sort of influence, you know, who wins. So I'm optimistic. I think we all ... Like, you're saying really enjoyed seeing a show that's, uh, the Globes has always been known for being sort of the drunk uncle show, where it's just like- Katey Rich: [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: ... everyone is toasted- Richard Lawson: [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: ... and, and gives these insane speeches. And they gave us that back, um, by withholding the food. [laughs] So- Richard Lawson: [laughs] A cruel strategy, but it worked. David Canfield: Very little water on the tables, I'll add. Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. David Canfield: Very little. Rebecca Ford: You know, Mi- i.e., like Mike White said. I mean, you could feel that energy. But I think a lot of that energy also comes from the fact that some of these winners were so exciting. Like, we were all excited to see Ke win, and Angela Bassett, and to, to f- and Michelle Yeoh, and feel them really enjoy this moment, even if there are still questions about how, you know, legitimate these awards are. It, it did feel like these are people who have been waiting a long time to, to- Richard Lawson: Mm-hmm. Rebecca Ford: ... receive that acknowledgment. And I think we can enjoy that, and at the same time still, you know, w- want to hold a group accountable. Richard Lawson: I thought that was reflected well in, in Ryan Murphy's speech, which was kind of unexpectedly stirring, when he was pointing out, you know, all of these queer and trans, uh, actors he's worked with over the years, and highlighting their stories. Um, when he had Michaela Jaé Rodriguez stand up and he said, you know, "She was the first trans actor to win a Golden Globe, but they didn't televise it. So I just want her to have that moment." And it felt very, you know, not just meaningful for Rodriguez, but for everyone in the room. And it's like, that's the thing about the Golden Globes, is despite who might be giving them out, it is a chance to be, sort of, publicly lauded. You know? Rebecca Ford: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: And, like, it ... That's not just something that actors want, a lot of people in this world [laughs]- Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: ... would appreciate that moment. And what a bummer it must be to, like, get that recognition, and yet it's not, you know, it doesn't have the, the audience. You know, it just ... It does matter. And I think that we could look at that in a sort of mocking way. Like, "Oh look, all the celebrities, they sure showed up, minus a few. Um, they're just so attention-hungry." But look, this is hard work, in some variety of hard work, and it is nice to have a night where you can celebrate that, and, uh ... You know. I can't deny them that. David Canfield: And if, if you're Michelle Yeoh, or Angela Bassett who are contending for the Oscar as well, they're definitely in that conversation, um, and you have been waiting a really long time for recognition like this, and you look at actors who were winning Globes in [laughs] 2017, 2016, with people who knew what was [laughs] going on with the HFPA, by and large, and who happily accepted those awards anyway. I think that there is a feeling of, "Well why am I ... Why would I have my moment taken away?" Rebecca Ford: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: "When they've improved, versus how Hollywood turned a blind eye for so long, as mostly white [laughs] actors were honored." So I think in tandem with broader industry shifts that we've seen, that the Academy has had to make, that studios have had to make, it makes sense to me that especially those actors would take their moment and make this a signal of change, and a signal of, if you want this group to mean something now, [laughs] put people like us up on stage. I think that's a really powerful statement, actually. Katey Rich: It really felt like Angela Bassett, and Ke Huy Quan who won the first two awards of the night, I think they were the first two, um, they really set the tone- David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Katey Rich: ... because they were both just really thankful and ebu- ebullient. And Angela [laughs] Bassett was reading off her phone, which I'm not crazy about. She can pull it off 'cause she's Angela [laughs] Bassett, and she has this, like- Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. Katey Rich: ... tone. You know, she narrates the Ryan Murphy tribute later in the night, and you're like, "Oh, my God, her voice has so much power." Um, but the ... Yeah. They were just really straightforwardly thankful. And I think that kind of cleared the path, after Jerrod Carmichael monologue, which was pretty, uh, biting toward the HFPA, for everyone to say, "No, this is my moment, and I'm gonna take it. And, and we're gonna move on from here." Um, and people seemed kind of relieved to be able to do that. Richard Lawson: It was biting toward the HFPA, his monologue, but also at the end when he talked about the money, it was sort of a gentle indictment of the whole industry, in a way. Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: Like, well, the money trumps all. And you can do that in a less-morally compromised position than some other r- you know, choices, but, like, you know, I think he, uh, I think he absolutely kind of referenced what makes the industry work. You know? And, uh, at root. And that wa- ... You know. And then I think he kind of lost the audience later in the [laughs] evening. Um, I thought his joke about Tom Cruise giving back his Globes was refreshingly daring, if not exactly targeted. I think that w- in weird way Carmichael did the hard and necessary job of, like, okay, let's get it all out there. And then Bassett and Quan could, um, give everyone else permission to enjoy themselves. Katey Rich: Yeah. David Canfield: Yeah. He did lose the room. Katey Rich: Yeah, I was just gonna ask you, David, about, like ... 'Cause the, uh, him coming back and asking everyone to quiet down. Like, I've been to at least enough awards shows to know it's so hard to get [laughs] people to shut up. Uh, is that why he lost the room? Or, or what happened there? David Canfield: I, I think it's a combination of the fact that people were having a good time. [laughs] Um, and so they did need to quiet down. And even before the cameras were rolling, he was coming out about 15 seconds earlier pleading with people to quiet down- Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: ... unsuccessfully. And his style as a comic, which is not to say he's, you know, too barbed, or anything like that. But he's a little bit more intimate. I mean, he literally sat down on his [laughs] opening monologue, um, which echoed his special Rothaniel for me. And as it's getting noisier, and loudier, louder, and boozier, I just don't think he had the sort of loudness, the noisiness to match that. Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: And that became his challenge, was he's trying to do something a little bit more considered, maybe. And especially in the back half of an [laughs] awards show like the Golden Globes, it's just very, very difficult to do that. There were definitely some jokes that didn't go over as well. But my perception of what was going on was people were just kind of tuning him out because he wasn't able to overtake the vibe in the room, really. Katey Rich: It's interesting, 'cause I felt like even the cameras didn't know what to do with him sometimes. David Canfield: Yeah. Katey Rich: Like, when he was pacing in the opening. Like, we were just sort of f- seeing him from the side. And it just felt like the cameramen were like, "Would this man please stand still." [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. Katey Rich: And they just, they just ... I mean, and I, and I think there was no way he could come out and do a sort of show and dance. You know what I mean? That's not his style, first of all, and that would be, look insane to do a traditional, um, hosting gig with this show in particular. So I think it worked, but, I, I can totally see what you're saying, David, that he just doesn't have the style of, like, a, a Kimmel, or whatever to hold a- David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Katey Rich: ... room like that, as they get progressively drunker. David Canfield: I, I think it's a, a level of fame, to be honest, you know. Uh, Jerrod Carmichael- Richard Lawson: Yeah. That too. Absolutely. David Canfield: ... is a great comic. His show, The Carmichael Show, was great. Rothaniel was great. But, like, you know, he's kind of a little more niche at this point than Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, or Ricky Gervais even. What I did like also, aside from the jokes of Carmichael's, um, hosting job was there were certain times when he would introduce a presenter and just be very earnest about how much he liked the- Richard Lawson: Mm-hmm. Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: ... actor. You know? Um, and I thought that was nice. I thought that that seemed like, oh, so he's not totally sneering at this. Like, he is a fan of, uh, of the work of people in the room, and, um, I think that counts for something. Richard Lawson: I actually thought he struck that tone throughout better than almost any host I've seen. Like, even in the opening monologue, he had that sort of abrupt turn, but I bought it. [laughs]. Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: It seemed very genuine to me that, you know, he believed in ... You know, it's kind of what we were talking about earlier with people like Basset and Yeoh, it's like he believed in what they were doing, and he was not gonna let them off the hook. And, you know, that's the best tone I think you can strike at the comeback Golden Globe Awards. [laughs]. Katey Rich: Uh, should we talk some more about some of the winners? We've, we've hit on a couple of them. I think Michelle Yeoh, Ke Huy Quan, Angela Bassett to some extent maybe we expected as a winner. Although Best Supporting Actress category is still kinda fuzzy. Um, but I really came away thinking about The Fabelmans, um, and wondering what that bump from Spielberg winning, and then winning Best Drama, um, could mean as, again, Oscar voting opens this week. Um, I feel really bullish on it, but I know that the Golden Globes voting body is very different. I don't know how much that means. I do ... Is anyone want to shoot me down and say that [laughs] The Fabelmans bump isn't as real as maybe I'm hoping it is? Rebecca Ford: I agree with you Katey. I felt like seeing them on stage, seeing Spielberg on stage made me just be like, "This would totally make sense on the Oscars' stage." And I, I think we all felt that film had a very solid start. And it feels like the kind of movie that voters would love. But I think this really helped it feel like, oh yes, Spielberg deserves this moment. And I think voters are sort of reminded of that, seeing this happen. Richard Lawson: And oddly, to The Fabelmans' advantage, in a way, is that somehow Everything Everywhere didn't win Best Comedy. And you kind of were expecting that, 'cause there was obviously the Quan moment, the Yeoh moment. So that, that movie was well-represented. But, like, I kind of thought there would be this big moment for that movie as a whole at the end of the show. Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: And there wasn't. And so they lost out one televised opportunity to, like the CODA team, like show everyone onstage together, you know, that kind of thing. Um, instead it went to Banshees. Um, so I don't know. I think maybe in some ... Not that the HFPA's voting is reflective really of the Academy's but, like, the TV of it all matters, uh- Katey Rich: Yeah. Richard Lawson: ... I think to some extent. And, um, you know, Banshees edged out everything, which I think only benefited Fabelmans. David Canfield: At The Fabelmans' after-party, because yes, indeed there- Katey Rich: Surprise after-party. David Canfield: Yes, indeed there were after-parties. Katey Rich: [laughs] I love the idea of Steven Spielberg, like, texting everybody, like, "Guys, let's go." [laughs] "Let's go out." David Canfield: [laughs] I think that's what happened. Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: Um- Rebecca Ford: Good for you. Richard Lawson: He was near me the Abbey. Uh- David Canfield: And Paul Dano had a great time at the Abbey. Um, it was, it, y- the ghost of 1917 was looming. Katey Rich: Oh, wow. David Canfield: It was brought up. I heard it brought up multiple times. Uh, that was a Universal film that won Best Picture at the Golden Globes, and best director. Um, they definitely thought at least coming out of that they had director sewn up, and of course, Parasite ended up sweeping. And I think this, there was a similar feeling, um, where it's a really good sign, and you have a iconic filmmaker, I think in this case especially iconic relative to Sam Mendes, um, getting a beautiful embrace. Um, but then the question is, as you shift to industry, does that hold? Um, and I know I don't want to jump ahead, but we did have SAG nominations today. Fabelmans missed a big nomination. Um, whereas Everything Everywhere and Banshees, if anything, over-performed. Katey Rich: Yeah. David Canfield: So, I, I think that the question remains, who is the front-runner, personally. Um, but I think that you now have those three films pretty solidified as in the top tier. Katey Rich: It made me return to the idea that maybe Fabelmans wouldn't win Best Picture, but that Steven Spielberg is kind of- David Canfield: Yeah. Katey Rich: ... sitting there as a very clear Best Director- David Canfield: I think so. Katey Rich: ... favorite. Um, and my whole thing is always that he hasn't ... He's only won Best Picture once, which is bananas. Um, and it doesn't seem like it's gonna fix this. But a third Best Director statue would not be un- undeserved. And his speech, like, really got to me. Just the idea of this, um, this guy who's, like, sort of topped the industry for 40 years being like the, "Only now have I shown you who I am." David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Katey Rich: Like, "This is me really opening myself up." It's really ... You can see how much the movie means to him. And Tony Kushner is kind of there as this, like, cheerleader, and [laughs] massage therapist by his side- David Canfield: [laughs]. Katey Rich: ... watching the speech. Um, uh- Richard Lawson: Quite a cheerleader therapist to have. Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. Katey Rich: [laughs] I know. We should all be so lucky. Um, but Rebecca, like you said, made me think, like, "Yeah, I just want to see him hold the Oscar, and do that same speech again." Richard Lawson: It is striking to see a director in his mid- to late-70s who has had wa- the career he has be like, "So I finally made a movie that's honest about me." [laughs] You know? Katey Rich: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: Like, four decades into a career. Uh, but it didn't feel in a way that, like, "Everything I've made in the past has been some sort of, you know, prevaricating lie, or whatever." No, it was just like, this is his most personal film to date. And I think that resonated with people. Um, because of some friends remarked to me last night saying, you know, over text, like, "I don't think that I've ever heard him talk like this." You know? Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: Um, he's certainly been interviewed, and, many times, and been on awards stages many times. But in the past it was like, the political righteousness of Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan. It real- wasn't really about him so much, um, so this felt different. Rebecca Ford: I also have to say, Ke Huy Quan's, um, sweet way of talking about Spielberg is only [laughs] helping Spielberg's case. Katey Rich: I know. Rebecca Ford: Because it's just like, there's a picture of them hugging at the show. It's been going around. And the way he, he was the first person Ke mentioned when he did his acceptance speech. Like, it just makes him, I don't know, the, this ... It's just like sweetness overload for me, and I, I love it so much. [laughs]. David Canfield: [laughs] And Michelle Yeoh shouted him out too, because he produced Memoirs of a Geisha. Rebecca Ford: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: You know? Rebecca Ford: Yeah. David Canfield: So a lot for him there. Rebecca Ford: I had to really, uh, do some googling. I could not figure out how [laughs] she had worked with him in the past. I didn't know that, so good for them. Katey Rich: Um, should we talk about Cate Blanchett for a second? 'Cause Michelle Yeoh had her big great speech that we talked about. Cate Blanchett was not there. Uh, they're both nominated SAG, which we'll get to. Was this a missed opportunity for her to dominate the room? Does it matter? David Canfield: Um, is Cate Blanchett one who dominates a room? I don't know. I mean- Katey Rich: But she can. Rebecca Ford: [inaudible 00:18:07] sure can. David Canfield: She can. Uh, I, I think honestly, this was illustrative of what this race is, which is, if you look at, you know, the top critics awards, Cate Blanchett has all but swept them. She has, I think, that part of this race in her corner. Um, the sort of, like, undeniability, you know, this tour-de-force performance. Uh, and Michelle's appeal is more emotional and more career-driven. And, so seeing her on that stage, um, give such an incredible speech, and speak so eloquently to how amazing of a career she's had in her own right, uh, even though it took her a long time to get on a stage like that, uh, is exactly the kind of boost she needs. Whereas with Cate, I don't know that it would make that much of a difference, if that, if that makes sense? Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: I, I think the people who are voting for Cate Blanchett don't really care about her speech. Whereas, I think, Michelle Yeoh, it matters a lot more. So I think, if anything, it just affirmed this is a real race. Katey Rich: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Um, yeah. Over on, on Saturday I voted for the National Society of Film Critics, and Blanchett won, um, as did Ke Huy Quan. Which means they both have now swept the so-called ... I mean, Twitter told me this is what it's called. The trifecta of New York, Los Angeles, and National Society of, Societies of Film Critics. Um, and, you know, Blanchett was at the, the critics, the New York Critics circle dinner, uh, last week, or two weeks ago, and, uh, gave a nice, long speech having just gotten off a plane. I don't know if that's the same energy that works in the Golden Globes room. You know? And, I don't know if it was necessary. Whereas, yeah, it was great that Yeoh had that moment, but, like, they're it, they're telling two very different stories. David Canfield: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Um, even though Yeoh has done well with critics groups as well. And I think that's what kind of makes the upcoming Oscars so exciting is that these are two really viable contenders coming from very different angles, very different films. And, um, I'm lu- I look forward to it. David Canfield: Yeah. It's the rare case where you could even see easily one of them winning SAG, and the other winning the Oscar. Richard Lawson: Yeah. David Canfield: Like, I think this will be down to the end. Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I wonder if Yeoh wins Critics' Choice on Sunday. Um, and- David Canfield: Yes. Katey Rich: ... just, um, just thinking of the makeup of that group, and maybe being a little bit more, uh, primed toward Everything Everywhere All at Once. And if that shifts some momentum in some way, or it's just kind of a ping-pong match, continuing. Do we feel the same way about Best Actor now that Colin Farrell and Austin Butler, uh, as I think we expected both got to give their speeches. Brendan Fraser is, wasn't there. Uh, was nominated for The Whale. Um, I think he's still very much in the running, but the, the idea of it being really between Butler and Farrell feels pretty solidified for me now. Richard Lawson: Well, Katey, you, you approached me over the weekend dressed like the old lady in Banshees of Inisherin- Katey Rich: [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: ... and sort of pointed a gnarled finger at me and- Katey Rich: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: ... prophetically said that you think Austin Butler is gonna win the whole thing. Katey Rich: That's true. Yeah, I have that power. Richard Lawson: Um, c- it was creepy, considering you live states away. Katey Rich: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: I don't know how you got here. But, um- David Canfield: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: ... um, but yeah, I don't know. I ... After last night I was like, "I think Katey and other people might be onto [laughs] something there." Um, because Farrell is a nice choice, uh, for, you know, an O- Best Actor at the Oscars, but, like, I don't know if it's quite the same, that, uh, that movie engenders quite the same excitement. Even though Elvis didn't win anything else, right? That's the big ta- and, and, and, um, Bohemian Rhapsody did at the Globes. Um, won Best Picture. Katey Rich: Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Richard Lawson: Um, but I don't know. I just ... Something about Butler. Even though he sounds so cra- [laughs] crazy. Katey Rich: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: Um- David Canfield: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: I watched Carrie Diaries, he didn't talk like that with that show. Um- Katey Rich: I think if you didn't watch any of his teen stuff, it doesn't mean anything. Like, 'cause I'd like ... His voice doesn't bother me at all. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Katey Rich: Because I, like, didn't ... I was going to say it's a generation gap, but we're the same age, Richard, so it's like [laughs] Carrie Diaries gap, I guess. David Canfield: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: Yeah, I just, I just happened to be watching The Carrie Diaries, a lot. Um, so I don't know. Again, but I get that also feels like a fun, close race. I bizarrely think that Fraser is the one who's really fallen off, and who knows, maybe SAGs will tell a different story. But, uh, maybe it could become a three-person race. But Butler really needed that last night, and, and he certainly, uh, got it, and delivered, um, even if he was a little rude to the pianist. Katey Rich: [laughs]. And Jerrod Carmichael had to explain that it wasn't her. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. Katey Rich: It was a recording. [laughs] She seemed fine. I think, think she did a great job. David Canfield: Oh, the, the gorgeous, [laughs] like, concert pianist- Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: ... [laughs] who got paid a lot of money to play at the Globes? Yeah, I think she was okay. Katey Rich: [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: Yeah, I think, I think if we see Fraser give an acceptance speech at SAG, or- Richard Lawson: Critics' Choice? Rebecca Ford: ... Critics' Choice, that will make us have to redo [laughs] this conversation again. Katey Rich: Yes. Yeah. Rebecca Ford: Because it does v- he has a story to tell, and I think can give a speech that people'll be talking about for a long time. So, um, but it does feel like Austin had a huge boost last night, and, and was just ... Like, you know, you saw. A billion people wanted to take selfies with ... Like, he's just got ... He's just in this huge moment for a film that voters really, really, love. And so it does ... I don't know, maybe it's a three-man race. That's ... I'm not- Richard Lawson: Think it's a three-man race. Rebecca Ford: ... [inaudible 00:22:59], yeah. Katey Rich: It's a pretty good looking three-man race. David Canfield: I don't, I don't think, I don't think Brendan is out of this at all. That is my current feeling. Hunch I also got him for SAG. So- Katey Rich: Yeah. David Canfield: There's a certain affection for the movie. I, I think he's gonna win somewhere, I really do. I'd just, I would be surprised if he went this whole season without winning anything. And once he wins something- Katey Rich: I think it would be a shame if he did too, honestly. Like, he's got- David Canfield: Yeah. Katey Rich: ... too much attention. It's such a comeback moment. I think he deserves to have that moment. Richard Lawson: Uh, I think it's just that Banshees and, uh, Elvis just appeal to the HFPA's specific tastes that much more. You know? Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: Totally. Richard Lawson: Uh, big musical biopic, uh, and then a film that's not American but stars someone they've definitely, you know, they've given an award to before. From the same dir- and, you know, it's from the same director. Like, that was cozy for the HFPA to vote for. Whereas Fraser maybe was just one step down from them. David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Katey Rich: I want to talk about a few Golden Globes things before we move on fully to SAG. Um, first of all, does anyone know what musical Amanda Seyfried is developing? David Canfield: [laughs]. Katey Rich: Has anyone cracked this code? David Canfield: The great mystery of the evening. [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: It's- Katey Rich: I really was wondering about it. Rebecca Ford: ... [inaudible 00:23:58] super busy on things we've never heard of before. Richard Lawson: [laughs]. Katey Rich: I mean, I hope Kevin Costner's house is okay. [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: And what is Cate shooting the UK? And just ... I don't know. David Canfield: [laughs]. Katey Rich: If it's Mamma Mia 3- Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. Katey Rich: ... Amanda Seyfried will delight the world. Um, but the thing I really want to talk about, because, uh, Fran Hoepfner at Gawker wrote something about Brad Pitt's presence in the front row. In reference to us, which is not the only reason I want to talk about it. Um, but the idea of him being kind of in the major of Hollywood position, like virt- basically the Jack Nicholson role where everyone keeps talking about him, and the camera keeps cutting to him. And he was kind of a, a subdued presence there, which, uh, I can't really imagine him doing anything otherwise. But how do you guys feel about Brad Pitt's role in the, as, in the showcraft of the Golden Globes? Rebecca Ford: Well, he's the biggest movie star in the room, in most rooms. In that room and all rooms. Katey Rich: [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: And I mean, that's, that was the, where the Will Smith spot was at- Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. Rebecca Ford: ... at the Oscars. It's the j- it's just there's this, always this one spot where everybody's eyeballed who take- who, who gets on the stage. They just look right at you. And they always put a giant movie star there. And- Katey Rich: Lady Gaga, uh- Richard Lawson: Lady Gaga. Katey Rich: ... had that role. Richard Lawson: My favorite year. Yes. Rebecca Ford: Yep. Yeah. Katey Rich: [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: And it's just like, and, and he's, I'm sure, been in that spot before, and, and did what he needed to do. I mean, I ... You know, on social media you see a lot of people commenting on, you know, all the reports and the divorce proceedings, and legal proceedings that are going on behind the scenes. But it, it sounds like in the room, it's just one of the things where your eyeballs fall on Brad Pitt, and you have to say something about him. [laughs]. Katey Rich: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: Yeah. It's an interest position. I mean, is ... Maybe that's good for Babylon's energy, um, its momentum or something. Um, although I did notice when they were announcing the Best Picture nominees, Babylon got very little applause. Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: It did. Richard Lawson: Maybe that was just the audio. David Canfield: Can confirm. No. Can confirm. Katey Rich: Oh. [laughs]. Richard Lawson: But ... Oh, okay. That was pu- uh, that felt very ne- like, that was pointed, or in some ways, or something. Even though Hurwitz had won earlier in the night, and people seemed excited about that. I think he's clearly liked in the industry. But, like- Katey Rich: He's won four Golden Globes. Richard Lawson: Yeah. I mean, so have I. It's not that hard. But, like- Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. Katey Rich: That's ... He's, he's younger than me. [laughs] That's crazy. Richard Lawson: Um, but, yeah. I don't know. I mean, the ... I, I felt a little uneasy about it, just because of what you, you referenced Rebecca, with the, the behind the scenes stuff. But, um, you know, I don't know. Maybe the people in that room just weren't paying attention to that, or, or they were just caught up in the moment. But again, that speaks ... You know, people wanted to have those kind of silly awards moments. Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: Like, everyone was eager to, like, do a normal, uh, awards show. Rebecca Ford: But they also kept talking about Rihanna too. She's maybe, she was maybe in the, uh, other role of major star. That it seems like maybe she had left by the time everyone started talking about Brad Pitt. Richard Lawson: Yeah. I kind of foolishly didn't quite see Naatu Naatu coming as, like, the threat to Rihanna, Lady Gaga, blah, blah, blah in, in Original Song. And it's like, now that he's won, and that song has won, I'm like, "Oh, well that's totally gonna win at the Oscars." David Canfield: W- that was a weird moment where when it won, I cheered really loudly, and the room just wasn't having it. Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. Katey Rich: [laughs]. It's just David. David Canfield: It was just me. I was thrilled. And everyone was expecting a giant star to get on that stage. Especially 'cause Rihanna walked in, and it was truly like all the heads turned, just before the category. Anyway, I was thrilled about it. And those who, and those who, uh, sensed that the room was not super-excited about [laughs] it were correct, uh, for, I don't know why. But guess they gotta go see RRR. Katey Rich: I agree that it being a, um, a song contender though. 'Cause, like, if really the main con- competition is Lady Gaga who won this category four or five ago, like, give it to Naatu Naatu. Get them to perform on stage, for God's sake. They keep saying they will, and, you know, you can imagine everyone at the Academy just, like, you know, doing whatever wishing they have to do to make it happen. David Canfield: [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: I, I don't know if you saw, but over the weekend there was some LA screening of RRR. Katey Rich: Yeah. Rebecca Ford: And it was like a huge dance party. Like, I just- Richard Lawson: Yeah. Rebecca Ford: I ... The, this movie is just really winning people over, and has ... I don't know. I think ... And, and when you think about the Academy being more international than it's ever been. And, I, I, I, I feel like it might win Best Song, if not get a bunch of nominations that we maybe aren't expecting. It's, it's really interesting. Katey Rich: Is, is this the one ... I mean, we talked about All Quiet on the Western Front last week. Like is it, is it the Best Picture, uh, International threat we should be looking at? Rebecca Ford: Maybe there won't be one, just one. Katey Rich: Yeah? Really? Rebecca Ford: Maybe there'll be, like [inaudible 00:28:05]. David Canfield: [laughs]. Katey Rich: The whole rest of the world gets two spots [laughs] in the Best Picture one. Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. David Canfield: [laughs]. Katey Rich: Okay, let's talk about the SAG nominations, which we have, you know, been referencing throughout this conversation. They came out Wednesday morning hours after the Golden Globes ended. A lot of the same people, um, from the Globes repeated at the SAGs, but maybe we should just talk about the surprises. I'm very proud of, uh, Little Gold Men guest Adam Sandler, who really got his start- Richard Lawson: [laughs]. David Canfield: [laughs]. Katey Rich: ... [laughs] on this podcast. Richard Lawson: I'm proud of you Katey. Katey Rich: Uh- Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. David Canfield: Yeah. We, we discovered him. Just he's- Katey Rich: I, I know. David Canfield: ... he's just unknown New York actor, but- Katey Rich: He was nowhere until we talked to him. Um, you know, he's been everywhere. We've talked about this. I don't know if I saw it on the show, or amongst ourselves, you know, he's been on a bunch of round tables, he was on our show, of course. Um, and his hustle on behalf of Hustle, uh, paid off. I was so excited to see that. Richard Lawson: I was g- I had told you Katey that I, I view Adam Sandler's nomination as, while he's still in the hunt for an Oscar nomination, a great sign for an actor like Paul Mescal who SAG would never recognize, but there's this really wide-open fifth slot in Best Actor. And they didn't go ... The fact that they didn't go with, like, a Tom Cruise- Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. Richard Lawson: ... or even a Hugh Jackman, who's just been kind of hovering as that option that I don't think is viable. [laughs] Um, it, it indicates to me that maybe the Academy will go with a, a smaller choice, a more indie discovery choice. And he is definitely the one who fits that bill. Katey Rich: Do you say SAG will never go to Paul Mescal because it's a smaller movie, or 'cause it's not an American movie? All of the above? Richard Lawson: All of the above. Katey Rich: Okay. Richard Lawson: It's just not ... I mean, unless that movie were like a top-tier conten- it's just, yeah, it's not in that cate- in that vein, I don't think. David Canfield: Also the Screen Actors Guild is really upset the Phoebe Ri- Bridgers situation. Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: And, you know, they're just- Rebecca Ford: [laughs]. David Canfield: ... it's a lot. Richard Lawson: TikTok contingent. David Canfield: [laughs] Yeah. Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: The ... Right, exactly. Yeah. Richard Lawson: [laughs]. David Canfield: The, the infamous TikTok contingent. Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: Uh, I think Best Actress went a weird way for me, you know. Katey Rich: Yeah. David Canfield: Um, Michelle Williams not being on that list, and instead Ana de Armas being on there, uh, that was surprising. Uh, I love that Viola Davis is in there, Danielle Deadwyler, ditto. I don't know who wins among those. I mean, I think it's still down to Blanchett and Yeoh, but, like, I don't know. At that ... The ... Even though Fabelmans got a Best Ensemble, and Dano got nominated in, uh, in Supporting, um, not seeing Williams there, that, that makes it a shock. Katey Rich: Yeah. Does anyone have a theory on what happened there? Rebecca Ford: I mean, she's so well-liked and respected by actors. I, I, I don't know if people just felt like Ana had to do something that any other actor would've been, like, God, please don't make me ever have to do a [laughs] role like that. David Canfield: Right. Rebecca Ford: That they gave it to her, and they just had to respect what she went through. But it, that one is definitely a mystery. Richard Lawson: Is it ... I don't know how the SAG voting works, but is it possible that, like, half of the people put her down for Supporting, and half put her in Lead, and then she didn't end up in either? David Canfield: No, they're, they're positioned- Richard Lawson: They are. David Canfield: They are. They're submitted- Richard Lawson: Okay, all right. David Canfield: ... uh, for one. Uh, I think that this was a ca- ... I actually think this was a really interesting considered set of nominations. You know, the fact that The Woman King didn't make Ensemble, but Viola Davis still made it in, speaks to, I think, the power of that performance. And I do think this is a case where that performance, I, I've heard a few not vibe with it. [laughs] Let's put it that way. In a movie that they clear- the SAG clearly liked overall, um, got into Best Ensemble, um, which was no guarantee, I, I would say. Whereas you- Katey Rich: I had a great pick for that movie. It's, uh, it is really a great ensemble movie, even it's not discussed in that way ever. David Canfield: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. But I, I think you see with Deadwyler and de Armas especially movies that are not in the conversation outside of those lead performances, but SAG going to bat for them a little bit. And saying these are performances that own their respective movies, that, especially [laughs] Blonde was very divisive. Um, the ... But that they kind of rise above them, or elevate them. And they ... I think that this was a group of actors recognizing performances that take charge of their movie. And I ... To your point, Richard, Michelle may have been submitted as a lead here, you could only vote for her as a lead, but she's not the face of that movie. And this has been the conversation around this placement the whole time in the way that every nominee in this category is, even Viola Davis, um, who may actually have [laughs] less percentage of screen time in her movie than Michelle Williams does, but I think it's just a matter of, of positioning. And with The Fabelmans it's always been tricky, because this is the Spielberg family portrait. Um, whereas with The Woman King, I think it was like Viola Davis leading an army. And those optics are a little different. And I actually think that's what you see reflected here. Richard Lawson: So if Williams had played Sammy Fabelman instead, it would've been fine- David Canfield: Sure. Richard Lawson: ... because she would've been- David Canfield: Which, she can do. I mean- Katey Rich: Yeah. [laughs]. Richard Lawson: Oh, boy. Absolutely, absolutely. David Canfield: ... conversations about who can play what role. Richard Lawson: Yeah. [laughs]. David Canfield: Uh, she'd be phenomenal. Katey Rich: Um, should we talk about Paul Dano then, being, uh, the only solo Fabelmans nominee? Which, you know, if you go back to Toronto where Judd Hirsch gets a standing ovation mid-film, I don't shoo- I'm not sure anyone would've seen that coming. Uh, Eddie Redmayne got in for Good Nurse. Do we imagine the Oscars might put Judd Hirsch in that spot if The Fabelmans really is surging? Or is it, is Dano now the one? Richard Lawson: Ugh. David Canfield: I think, I think Hirsch could easily take Dano's spot. I mean- Richard Lawson: Yeah. David Canfield: ... this, this was the- Katey Rich: Oh, they, they would switch? David Canfield: ... Belfast co- Katey Rich: [laughs] Yeah. David Canfield: Possibly, this, this is what happened with Belfast. I mean, it's Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: ... it's a different kind of voting group. And I think with the Academy, they're definitely more ... They would be more inclined to vote for someone like Hirsch than SAG, which is a younger, much broader body v- body of voters. I think that Judd Hirsch has a lot more, there's a lot more sentiment for him in the Academy. Um, not to say this isn't great news for Paul Dano. I think that, honestly, the best bet is probably that both could get in. Um- Katey Rich: So two sets in Supporting Actor, assuming that Barry Keoghan and Brendan Gleeson are locked, which is think they are. David Canfield: Yeah, I mean that, that can happen. You know? Power of the Dog, uh, got Jesse Plemons in there at the end when, you know, if you have a really strong contender that can just kind of take up a lot of space in the end. Katey Rich: Well, then they all cancel each other out and Ke Huy Quan sails even, even more cleanly [laughs] to victory. David Canfield: Yeah. [inaudible 00:34:02] entirely. Katey Rich: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: [laughs]. David Canfield: He's the only nominee. Richard Lawson: Our, uh, our sort of sibling podcast, This Had Oscar Buzz was talking about this recently, the sort of Netflix effect. Um, and Netflix had not done terribly well this awards season thus far, but, like, it's interesting that Sandler and Redmayne are both in there. Do we think that's just because voters can just watch that easily at home? Like, they don't even have to go to a screener, it's just on Netflix. David Canfield: Ana de Armas. Katey Rich: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Well, yeah. An- Ana de Armas. That's right. Yeah. Rebecca Ford: Yeah, that's true. But I do, I do think Sandler and Redmayne especially are really getting out there. Like- Richard Lawson: Yeah. Rebecca Ford: ... I think Sandler was on every single round table, actors on actors thing that- Richard Lawson: Mm-hmm. Rebecca Ford: ... happened this year. And, uh, Redmayne has been out there too. And I, I just think that really helps them both get on these lists. And I, I don't know, I feel like Redmayne, or either of them, could probably be on the Oscar list and we wouldn't be that surprised at this point. Richard Lawson: Mm-hmm. Katey Rich: And if we're talking about the Netflix effect, the fact that Glass Onion didn't make it here at all really bummed me out. Um, you know, you talk about an ensemble, I think that movie was so clearly in that conversation. And Janelle, Janelle Monae was kind of the big hope for that as well. I'm not sure what that means for Glass Onion's chances. Um, but it, it felt like a big blow for them today. Richard Lawson: I don't think it's anything good. [laughs]. Katey Rich: Yeah. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. Richard Lawson: I mean, honestly it just, it felt like I was almost sure it would make it in. Katey Rich: Yeah. Richard Lawson: Um, and I actually thought this would be a big moment for Janelle too. So, yeah, I, I don't really know what happened there. I think it's s- says a lot that Women Talking made it in over Glass Onion, because Women Talking's a much smaller, more difficult movie, but it did pull it out. Whereas Glass Onion is, you know, it's fun. It's a good time. It's a bunch of stars, many of whom were giving great performances. I seemed kind of like a slam-dunk, especially with the amount that, you know, to what we were spa- saying, Netflix put into it. So they'd a huge campaign. And that really paid off for a lot of these individual nominations for them, um, but it not here. And that after ... Also missed a lot of BAFTA long list mentions. So far the industry has not weighed in particularly favorably for this movie, at least as a Best Picture contender. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. And it, it does feel like, um, individual Supporting Acting noms for Women Talking are, are, are f- are fading fast. I mean- Richard Lawson: Yeah. Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. Rebecca Ford: ... I'm so excited to see Stephanie Hsu get that nomination along with Jamie Lee Curtis. I think there's been a lot of talk about can they both get a spot. And this feels like a good sign for that. But it, you know, there's so many great performances in that Women Talking movie. And, and I feel like it's, it's kind of a bummer those have faded so fast. Richard Lawson: Yeah. Katey Rich: Yeah, it feels like whatever that spot would've been was taken by Hong Chau, uh, for The Whale. Which is, you know, we ... She's also been on Little Gold Men. Uh, we've talked about her as being a real standout in that movie, and potentially being able to ride the coattails of Brendan Fraser who's kind of a guaranteed nominee at this point. Um, I'm really excited to see her, even if I miss Women Talking in this category, like you Rebecca. Richard Lawson: Least they get to go. [laughs]. Katey Rich: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: I was worried, I was worried for it. Katey Rich: Well, and you know, they get the Ensemble nomination. You get people like Judith Ivey, and Sheila McCarthy who weren't going to get individual nominations. Rebecca Ford: Yeah. Katey Rich: So it's sort of a, um, a big victory anyway. Richard Lawson: Yeah. And they're also winning the Robert Altman Award at the Spirit Awards. Katey Rich: Right. Richard Lawson: So the ensemble has really been recognized. Um- Katey Rich: As you've been saying since Telluride when they were traveling as a pack. Richard Lawson: All or nothing. Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: Are we gonna a whole season and Jamie Lee Curtis won't give a wild speech? I, I want that to happen. Katey Rich: She get close talking to Eddie Murphy. Uh- Richard Lawson: [laughs]. David Canfield: Was that planned? I, I don't think that was planned. Katey Rich: [laughs]. Richard Lawson: She was on the list of presenters. Katey Rich: She was. David Canfield: Oh, [laughs] okay. Richard Lawson: But there was moment in ... There was some confusion in the room about ... There was a moment early on where I ... Some peop- I don't know, I just overheard it. People thought she was going on. I don't know if they- Katey Rich: They played the Halloween theme. And then- Richard Lawson: That was it. David Canfield: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Katey Rich: And then I think Jenny Ortega showed up. Richard Lawson: So I wondered if they shifted when she appears? I honestly don't know. Um, but she was planned as a presenter at least. Katey Rich: She had a great reaction to Michelle Yeoh winning that, uh, maybe was our little taste of, um, Jamie Lee Curtis energy at that show. David Canfield: Also a great reaction to Bassett winning. [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: Oh, [inaudible 00:37:50]. Katey Rich: Oh, I missed that. David Canfield: Oh, there was [laughs] a quick cut to it, not very happy face. Katey Rich: Oh yeah? [laughs]. Oh, well. David Canfield: But, um, maybe that was just me projecting. But, I, I don't know. Richard Lawson: [laughs]. David Canfield: I just want one Melissa Leo 40-minute [laughs] long speech from Jamie Lee Curtis this year. Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: I don't care what- Richard Lawson: [laughs]. Katey Rich: I think that was, that was the Jennifer Coolidge slot at the Globes this- David Canfield: Yes, it was. Katey Rich: ... this year. Richard Lawson: Yeah. I, I, I don't know. I ... It kind of feels like Bassett is a, an easy front-runner to imagine winning a lot of these going forward. But Critics' Choice w- may ta- tell a different tale. I don't know. Katey Rich: Yeah. David Canfield: So if a Marvel movie wins an acting Oscar, the people complaining that Marvel doesn't get respect can finally be quiet. Right? That they'll do- Rebecca Ford: Oh, yes. They'll be satisfied, yeah. David Canfield: They'll do ... They'll accept that and move on. Right? Rebecca Ford: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. David Canfield: [laughs] Okay. Good. Rebecca Ford: They're famous, famous for accepting reality. [laughs]. Richard Lawson: [laughs]. Katey Rich: It is ... This would be ... I mean, in some ways, like, yeah. So a very respected veteran being the first Marvel actor to win an Oscar, or be nominated for an Oscar, um, does make sense, but just the, the trajectory of her campaign has been so fascinating, um, and continues to be really fun to watch. Well, talking about Netflix and SAG, we have to talk about the big news that also broke today, which is that the SAG Awards will air this year on Netflix's YouTube channel. Uh, we can talk about that. Uh, and as of 2024 on Netflix itself, they're kind of setting up their live broadcast capabilities. They've got a Chris Rock-led special coming this spring sometime. Um, I think we've talked idly about the idea that awards shows may be destined to go to streaming. SAG would've made sense as a first one. Although it is one of the shortest awards shows. So it's sort of ironic that it's gonna have all the space in the world. Um, Rebecca, you wrote about this news for us in the midst of the Globes. It was not nice timing at all. Um, what do you ... Do you think this is a good choice? Rebecca Ford: I think it ... If, if we look beyond this year's show, I think it is a, a win-win for them, because this show has really struggled with ratings. Um, uh, even more so than, you know, the Oscars or the Globes. And, and I think they won't have to be held accountable for that, starting in 2024 because Netflix doesn't, you know, release ratings, or have any of those ... And Netflix wants to build into the live television space, so this is an easy way for them to do that. They basically weren't ready to do it this year, which is why we're all gonna be watching this on Netflix's YouTube, which I don't- Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: We're gonna need a instruction manual how to that- Richard Lawson: [laughs]. Rebecca Ford: ... but, um, and it, it's like if no one is go- I don't know, uh, who, how many people will actually- Katey Rich: We will embed it at on vanityfair.com. Rebecca Ford: [laughs] There you go. Katey Rich: You will be able to watch the SAG Awards at vanityfair.com. [laughs]. David Canfield: [laughs] Yeah. Rebecca Ford: So, [laughs] this ... It is a bummer for this year. I would say they obviously were shopping the show around, and couldn't fi- get a broadcast buyer, because obviously broadcasts, uh, networks are seeing how terribly these shows are doing. And they're, this conversation has been ongoing for quite a few years, and, um, you know, it, it feels like this is the best solution for the SAG Awards for now. Richard Lawson: Um, I'm gonna put my Matt Bellamy hat on, you know, and, and pretend I'm on the town, and be like, is this Netflix trying to show, uh, professional sports? "Hey, we can do live. Like, we did this awards show. We're doing this comedy special." You know, like, they clearly- Katey Rich: Oh. Richard Lawson: That's where the big money is. Katey Rich: A test balloon for what they really want to? Richard Lawson: That's where the big money is. So, um, uh, maybe. Ma- and that's been, like, I think a white whale for them for a while. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't be ... It'll be interesting. I ... Is there a conflict of interests? Well, I don't know, networks would ha- air these shows when they have their own things nominated, so I don't think so, necessarily. I just would expect a lot of presenters from Netflix properties. You know? Katey Rich: Hmm. Yeah. David Canfield: I mean, it's kind of like how at the Emmys if CBS would have its year, you would have a lot of weird procedural actors- Katey Rich: [laughs]. David Canfield: ... present- or [laughs] ... Rebecca Ford: [laughs] Yeah. Katey Rich: And we had Ana Gasteyer presenting from American Auto at the Golden Globes. David Canfield: NCIS Dubai, here's, you know, Chris O'Donnell's brother. Katey Rich: [laughs] Yeah. David Canfield: Whate- I don't know. Richard Lawson: [laughs] Yeah. David Canfield: But, like, literally. Um, yes, I, I, I think it's fantastic news, actually. And I think it's the future of most awards shows, frankly, because there is no reason, at this point, for the SAG Awards to be on linear television. Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: It's just an outdated model. And, yeah, I think there's [laughs] absolutely a case being made that Netflix is trying to go for a bigger fish in this move. But I don't really care. I think the SAG Awards need a home, and if this is the way that they can have a good home with a lot of people on Netflix, it'll get a lot more people to watch, I would think. At least for a little bit. I think it's a win all around. It's a win for awards shows, because they can maintain some relevancy. It's a win for Netflix, who ... Yeah. It's a ... And, uh, it's also an absolute show of industry faith, um- Katey Rich: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: ... as they try, I think, to ... There's still those questions that come up about Netflix as a disruptor. It's do you still hear it on the campaign trail? And this is, I think, a good, a really good move for them PR-wise, as well. Rebecca Ford: I do, I ... Unless something has happened and that I have, I've missed, I think the Indie Spirit Awards were still looking for a partner- David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Rebecca Ford: ... as well. And so, that's the other question remaining is, is what, what will happen with them. And that show is also not very far away at this point. Richard Lawson: And I will be use- exclusively streaming the Tony Awards from my Instagram account. Rebecca Ford: Mm-hmm. [laughs]. Richard Lawson: Um, I'm joking, so. David Canfield: With Haley Lu Richardson as your- Richard Lawson: [laughs] Yeah, right. Rebecca Ford: [laughs] Yeah. Katey Rich: Yeah, I mean, the SAG Awards going all-in on Instagram Live announcements, I guess showed that they were willing to think digital-first for a while now. Um, I wish they would stop doing that Instagram live, [laughs] 'cause it's always weird and buggy, but, uh, I'm not in charge. That does it for this week's show. We'll be back next week talking more about all the slew of awards. A lot of guilds have announced awards this weekend. We'll just get ... We'll dive more into those next week, 'cause there's just a lot to talk about. In the meantime, find all of our Golden Globes coverage, including from David and Natalie Jarvey who were there in the room at vanityfair.com. You can follow us on Twitter @hwd. And on our own, I am @kateyrich. And Richard? Richard Lawson: rilaws. Katey Rich: And David? David Canfield: davidcanfield97. Katey Rich: And Rebecca? Rebecca Ford: beccamford. Katey Rich: Our editor and producer is Brett Fuchs. And this week's award for the most succinct explanation of why this podcast exists goes to David Canfield. David Canfield: Did you know movie stars love dressing up, and drinking champagne?