Katey Rich: Hello and welcome to Little Gold Men, the award season podcast from Vanity Fair. Speaker 2: It's such an honor to present this next award. Speaker 3: And here are the nominees. Speaker 4: And the Oscar goes to. Speaker 5: And the Oscar goes to. Speaker 6: And I can't deny the fact that you like me right now, you like me. Speaker 7: Am the king of the world. Speaker 8: There's a mistake. Moonlight, you guys won best picture. Katey Rich: I'm Katey Rich. I'm here for today's interview episode to set up an interview that David Canfield did with Jamie Lee Curtis, a best supporting actress nominee for Everything Everywhere All At Once. Um, this is a really special interview. I think Jamie Lee Curtis has been a really special presence on the award circuit. For months now, she describes herself as the head cheerleader of Everything Everywhere All At Once, and brings some of that energy to talking about the movie. Um, but I think David really gets her to talk about herself, which is something she hasn't necessarily done as much with the movie. You know, she's a supporting player in, it's a story about this Asian immigrant family. I think she rightly knows that's not her part of the story, but talking about herself and how she anticipated this nomination in particular, I think is fascinating. As she mentioned, she's married to Christopher Guest who directed a movie called For Your Consideration, kind of about what can happen to your brain when you anticipate an Oscar nomination and don't get it. And she talks about how she insulated herself against maybe that kind of, that version of madness. Um, and then, I don't wanna spoil too much, but she talks about the legacy of her parents who were both Oscar nominees, Tony Curtis and Janet Lee. And, um, what it means for her to join that really rare company. Uh, it's a great interview. I hope you enjoy it. Let's listen to David Canfield talking to Jamie Lee Curtis. David Canfield: Jamie Lee Curtis, thank you so much for being here. You are nominated star of the most nominated film of the year. Everything Everywhere All At Once. Hi. Jamie Lee Curtis: That's, you know, I woke up this morning and we have a group chat, you know, our little EEAAO family and I wrote them all this morning and said, "Is this real?" David Canfield: Huh. Jamie Lee Curtis: "Is this really happening?" Um, and they all wrote back and [inaudible 00:02:23]. David Canfield: [laughs], a bunch of nominees wrote back. Yeah. Jamie Lee Curtis: Yeah. [laughs], a bunch of nominees wrote back. It's, it's, uh, it's a beautiful moment for all of us. David Canfield: Could you have expected that group chat to have presumably lasted as long and been as lively as it remains? 'Cause it's been quite a year for this movie. Jamie Lee Curtis: Well, it's a three-year group chat. David Canfield: Yep, that's right. [laughs] shot quite a while. A while ago. Jamie Lee Curtis: Um, the movie was shot quite a while ago. We all weathered COVID, um, you know, the COVID, uh, shutdown on the group chat still. And then we regrouped when the movie debuted at South By, and since then, the group chat has been a big cheerleading fest of watching this little movie start to grow, start to expand its reach in both audience and obviously the critical reviews. Then the real reaction, which is people coming up to you talking about how the movie changed them. And I, I, you know, look, we're in show off business. I don't pretend, you know what I mean? I try not to take it all so seriously. David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: But this movie for this in this moment, post COVID a movie about immigrants, about immigrant families, and about reunification between a mother and a daughter and a husband and a wife, has really changed people's lives. People never thought they would see their stories on screen like this. And that's incredible. David Canfield: Yeah. You read your role or really any of these roles on paper and you wouldn't necessarily think, given the way that the Daniels work, that these would be the ones to take you all to the Oscars. But in a way that's kind of the magic of the movie, right? I mean, it, it had this explosion in resonance, as you say. And I don't, I think that is a credit to the fact that it is a movie really unlike anything that's been made before, period. Jamie Lee Curtis: Yes. And although Ke's wife Echo- David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: ... uh, apparently did say on the opening day when we did our Lunar New Year celebration, the opening day of the movie at 6:00 AM in Simi Valley with suckling pigs and blessings for the movie. She knew, she said, she said to Ke that this movie was going to change lives. I cannot believe that anybody else involved with the movie knew with any prescience that the movie would be anything more than entertaining for sure. I mean, for sure, because of, its, just the subject matter, the multiverse nature of it, and the comedy, which was very clear. Um, but no one knew and no one could know. And so to have this moment with something like that is particularly sweet. David Canfield: I wanna talk about what this nomination means for you, but I, I also feel like the context of it in this year is really interesting. We have, we're approaching a record number of first time acting nominees this year. Four of them are in this movie, three of them, you, Michelle, and Ke started in this business decades ago. Jamie Lee Curtis: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: Um, there's a real statement in there about longevity in this business and the way it evolves. Wouldn't you say? Jamie Lee Curtis: Oh, very much so [laughs]. Very, very much so. And I think it really starts with Michelle because, you know, the Daniels couldn't have made this movie without her. David Canfield: Yep. Jamie Lee Curtis: It had to be a woman of a certain age, It had to be a woman of a certain experience. And as it turns out, of course, she was never allowed to be number one on the call sheet. She was never allowed to headline a movie. And so, for her, just her story alone is the story of this movie. It is the most beautiful aspect to watch Michelle Yeoh who describes Evelyn Wong as just an ordinary woman that you would pass on the street. Whereas Michelle Yeoh is nothing like an ordinary woman you would pass on the street- David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: ... and yet she inhabited her so deeply, so egolessly and so much integrity that all the rest of it together, I agree with you, is an extraordinary achievement. And it only could have happened with a woman with that sort of history in cinema. Um, Ke, of course, his story is the heartbreaking triumph story. David Canfield: Yes. Jamie Lee Curtis: Because Ke, as a teenage Asian boy, after being a child star tells the harrowing story of how he had to watch all of his colleagues, his young teenage colleagues, all white come of age in show off business, and he had no auditions, the phone did not ring. And he had to take the very hard decision to leave being an actor and went and worked behind the camera, went to the film school and became a stunt coordinator and a producer. And it was only after seeing crazy Rich Asians, walking out of the theater with his wife, Echo with tears in his eyes, where he never thought he would see people who looked like him being on the big screen where the entire story were about people like him. And he said to Echo, I feel like I could be an actor again. And within a week he called his old agent and within two weeks he was auditioning for Everything Everywhere All At Once. So his story is the most poignant and triumphant because of his 20-year absence on the screen. And mine is, I'm the old mule [laughs]. You know, I'm, I'm the donkey. I'm just the mule who's been shrugging on the plow in all sorts of areas for a very long time. Um, I only realized it this morning when I knew I was gonna talk to you that it's like discovering a secret room in the house you've lived in your whole life- David Canfield: Huh. Jamie Lee Curtis: ... that you never knew was there. Or if you did, you had papered over it or plastered over it and just forgot about it. And having my name called that morning, which was a total shock, I know people would say, "Oh, come on Jamie, you knew." I chose not to read lists. David Canfield: Yeah. Jamie Lee Curtis: I didn't want to be told. I told all my friends, "Please don't send them to me because it's gonna hurt too much." And I understood that it existed, but it was not something, I knew that the movie would. I knew that Ke would, I knew that Stephanie would, I knew that Michelle would, I knew that the Daniels would, but I did not know for me. And it is like discovering a secret room and going like, "Oh, oh my God. There's the secret room in my life. And I'm so excited by it." I am, I am giddy with excitement about it. I, the smile has not left my face. And I'm a kind of curmudgeony, I'm very careful because I've been an actress since I was 19. I'm 64. And I didn't want, I've tried not to get my heart broken by the industry. And I have felt like an outsider and I have done outsider work and I'm in genres that are not traditionally recognized in the more mainstream show off business accolades. I'm in horror, I've been a horror genre- David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: ... participant since I was 19. Um, I've been in a lot of comedies. And comedies aren't often, uh, recognized in these bigger categories. And so, you know, needless to say, my secret garden is, uh, blooming and I am both weepy and giddy. David Canfield: And how fitting that it is for a movie that has every genre under the sun smashed, [laughs] smashed together. Jamie Lee Curtis: Yeah. Yes. And how, how lovely that it's Deirdre- David Canfield: Yeah. Jamie Lee Curtis: ... who's gonna take me to the Oscars that Deirdre [inaudible 00:11:46] [laughs] a woman who, when I read the script and met the Daniels, I said to them, "Look, I don't know what the fuck your script is about, really. I, I can't, I'm not a multiverse person. I don't really understand the multiverse." David Canfield: Right. Jamie Lee Curtis: "I, I see where you're going with it. I see what you're going for but I do know Deirdre." And the reason I said yes is 'cause I know her. I've known Deirdre's my whole life. Deirdre's are also forgotten people. David Canfield: I think of those scenes that you and Michelle have, uh, that, you know, visually can seem quite absurd, but you two find real meaning and depth, uh, and create this relationship and this life. So to your point about this real person, this person you know, like, especially given the nature of the way this movie was made, what was your experience on set day-to-day? And I'm curious how that contrasted with how you saw the film come together. [laughs]. Jamie Lee Curtis: Um, 90% of my work in the movie was shot day one and day two, uh, day one was over me to the Wongs, um, as they made their case. Um, I had to not crack up when James Hong would try to steal the scene by farting or burping [laughs], um, or falling asleep in the middle of the scene. Um, I remember that after we did the first big master of the scene over me to them, I looked at Ke and he looked at me and he said, "Was I okay?" And I said, "Were you okay? You were amazing." And he said, "I haven't acted in 20 years until this moment." And I, I, that's when I first my, I sort of thought, "What?" So that was day one and day two was on me over them to me. And I got to do all of Deirdre's work. David Canfield: Amazing how [laughs] fast something like that has to come together. Jamie Lee Curtis: Yes. David Canfield: Um, but that is, that is movie making. Jamie Lee Curtis: And then day three and day four, I was flying on wires. Day three, I was on wires and the stairwell, um, doing the sequence with the knee kick. Um, and then day four I was doing the Sumo wrestling, you know, world Wrestling Federation, uh- David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: ... back breaker. That's how fast this got made. David Canfield: Wow. And hearing the amount of work you put into it, the detail of the work you put into it, and you, you know, you think you are going into a genre movie. You don't know that this is gonna be an awards' movie, it makes me think of the other work that you've done. And I'm curious how you feel about what you were saying earlier, that genre movies, genre performances, don't get put in those kinds of conversations very often when it comes to accolades. Um, I think of a number of your performances that are incredibly memorable, indelible for me, um, that fall into that category and therefore were not necessarily considered on that plane. Jamie Lee Curtis: Oh, were for sure not. There are two things I wanna share with you. One is, there's a wonderful book by Marisha Pessl. I talk about it all the time. The book is called Special Topics in Calamity Physics. It's a mystery novel, terrific novel. But in the middle, uh, it talks about how life is supposed to progress and where you go to school and who you marry and what your first job is, is what determines your life. And she says, and I quote, "It isn't life hinges on a couple seconds you never see coming. And what you do in those seconds determines everything from then on. And you won't know what you're gonna do until you're there." That's been my creative life. My life has hinged on a couple seconds I never saw coming. I never saw Chris Guest coming. I never saw, you know, Halloween coming. I never saw Everything Everywhere All At Once coming. I never saw them coming. They just showed up. And then you took the ch- you know, then you took the work. And now three years later, something that has never been something I thought would happen in my life has happened. And for all of that, I am amazed, delighted, grateful, grateful, grateful that for this long amount of time I've been able to do that work. Um, and the other thing I wanted to mention to you is what you brought up again about Michelle Yeoh. I did this movie because of Michelle Yeoh. When my agent Rick called me and said, "You've been offered this part, it's this kind of wacky movie. These two guys did Swiss Army Man, Turned Down For What," which was a video that I loved. David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: Um, and he said, "And Michelle Yeoh is gonna star in the movie." And I said, "She's in the movie?" And they said, "Yes." I said, "Okay, I'll do it." And they said, "Well, no, no, no, you should read it 'cause it's pretty out there. And the part is kind of interesting and strange." And I said, "Oh, no, no, I'll do it. If Michelle Yeoh's gonna be in the movie, I'm gonna act with her. Like she, it's a part with her, of course, I'll do it." And what Michelle and I discovered, as you said, in those moments that could have been absurd, was that beautiful deep loneliness that occurs with people, the heartbreak of relationships that come to an end. Um, that longing for connection between people. Two lonely forgotten women, one in an unfortunate, an unhappy marriage, one who'd gotten out of her marriage. And even though it's a fantasy world, even though it's, as you said, it's absurd, the hotdog universe is simply a portal for feelings. David Canfield: Yep. Jamie Lee Curtis: And I will tell you that the work with her, which we discovered really in an improvisation on that day, which was shot in about an hour, was this beautiful moment that I will never forget. David Canfield: You can see it, you really can see it in those scenes I think. Jamie Lee Curtis: Yeah. We were all delighted and surprised and very moved by where we went emotionally together. And, um, it was unexpected. And, and also just such a beautiful testament to her depth as an actress and what a beautiful scene partner she was. She's just an extraordinary woman. And, uh, yeah. Yeah. It's crazy [laughs]. It's just, it's all crazy. It's just gorgeous. David Canfield: For the listeners, Jamie Lee Curtis is smiling right now. Jamie Lee Curtis: [laughs]. Oh, Jamie Lee Curtis has been smiling since Tuesday, February 24th at 5:31 in the morning. David Canfield: Did you always know you were ready to listen... You know, you mentioned being a little bit, you know, wary of the lists and all that, but you knew you were gonna wake up and listen. So there must have been nerves associated with that [laughs]. Jamie Lee Curtis: So I had COVID, um, that- David Canfield: Oh wow. Jamie Lee Curtis: ... put me out of, I didn't get to go to the Critic's Choice dinner. David Canfield: That's right, of course. Jamie Lee Curtis: And I was able, but, you know, it was perfect because I got to watch as an audience member, and I got to listen to Jonathan Wong talk about his family and the struggles of immigrants and it was appropriate that I was at home watching. I am a head cheerleader, and I was moved to tears. I was sobbing. Um, so I was very happy to see that. Um, obviously I had people whisper in my ear, you can't, you know, people who I love whispered it in my ear and I would say to them, "Please stop [laughs], because that's lovely and that would be amazing, but that's not A, of course why I did it. And B, it's out of my control." So I'm sober 24 years and I live in reality- David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: ... and I have my feet on the ground. And there's a phrase in recovery that I like to say, which is be where your feet are. And, you know, therefore I need to ground myself in reality. And I also am married to Christopher Guest. David Canfield: Yes. Jamie Lee Curtis: And my husband made a film called For Your Consideration. David Canfield: Sure did. A favorite of mine [laughs]. Jamie Lee Curtis: Which it is a great movie, but it's about this very thing. David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: It's about how that longing for something changes people. And as I said to you, this was a walled off secret room. I didn't even know I had a longing for it because it's just never been part of my life. And so when people whispered in my ear, I was aware, I was aware of it, and I decided in that moment to lean in rather than lean back, leaning back is, "No, no, no. Oh, no, no, no. Oh, that will never happen." That's also, that's self-deprecating. That's not, I didn't need to do that. David Canfield: Right. Jamie Lee Curtis: What I kept saying is, "Wouldn't that be amazing?" And lean in toward it and just simply say, I am open to the possibility of it. And because Chris made that movie, which is scripted and it's scripted to be heartbreaking. David Canfield: Yeah. Jamie Lee Curtis: Um, I needed to sort of exorcize his movie, which is a fiction and live in the reality, which was I had enough people whisper it in my ear that I thought, "Well, if I don't watch them, then I'm gonna look at my phone and if my phone isn't going off at 8:35 or 5:35, I'm gonna know it didn't happen. And the disappointment will be the same. It'll be the same." So it's either confronted or do it passively. And I chose to confront it. And so yeah, I knew they were happening. I woke up and, and I am head cheerleader of Everything Everywhere All At Once. David Canfield: You are [laughs]. Jamie Lee Curtis: And I knew, and I will tell you one of my favorite things that happened from this movie was someone tweeted somewhere, "I wish someone loved me as much as Jamie Lee Curtis loves Everything Everywhere All At Once." David Canfield: I've seen the tweet, oh yeah, [laughs]. Jamie Lee Curtis: That is who I am. David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: That is my nature. And so I also wanted to be present for what I knew was going to be many nominations for my colleagues. David Canfield: Right. Jamie Lee Curtis: And so that was my choice. My choice was to, for me, face the reality of it and be in evidence and be present to celebrate my colleagues. David Canfield: Um, so you've opened the secret door. Um, I'm curious what you, what you found in it, and by that I mean, clearly with this moment comes a lot of reflection over life and career. You mentioned saying goodbye to Laurie Strode. Jamie Lee Curtis: Mm-hmm. David Canfield: Um, what is the promise of that room? What do you see that maybe you couldn't see before about who you are as an artist? What might be next? Like what, what is in there? Jamie Lee Curtis: My parents were in there. It felt like they knew that would happen even though I didn't. And both of them, you know, I have followed nepo baby in my parents' footsteps. David Canfield: Yeah. Jamie Lee Curtis: Um, I have followed them. In my mother's case, literally followed her. David Canfield: Absolutely. Jamie Lee Curtis: Um, and yet their fame and success was always so big to me. Their stardom at the time was so ginormous that even though I've had fantastic success, I never thought I would reach their level. That was n- David Canfield: Yeah. Jamie Lee Curtis: ... never even in like, not even, I mean just not even possible. David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: And in a weird way, they were, the first thing I thought of was both of them coming from nothing. David Canfield: Mm-hmm. Jamie Lee Curtis: My, my father being raised on the streets of New York by a Taylor who immigrated from Hungary and my mother being raised in Stockton, California by immigrants from Denmark. And that both of them found their way to the top of the pile of this industry. And both of them were nominated for Oscars and all of a sudden there were my parents and they were welcoming me. And I didn't, I really didn't expect that. But they were the absolute first thing that I thought of was how thrilled my grandparents would be, how thrilled my parents would be for this moment for their daughter. David Canfield: That's a pretty beautiful note to end on, I think. Jamie Lee Curtis: Thanks for making me cry. Um- David Canfield: That's what we do here, [laughs] [inaudible 00:26:50]. Jamie Lee Curtis: Thanks for that. Um, and by the way, just so you know, [laughs], my beautiful friend Brian Tyre Henry [inaudible 00:26:59]. David Canfield: Yes. I loved your Instagrams about Brian's nomination [laughs]. Jamie Lee Curtis: Okay. When, when I told him that I was doing this, he called it Little White Golden Men [laughs]. Oh. Made me laugh out loud, man. He's so, he's so great. What a delicious human being he is. Yes. David Canfield: Talk about another deserved first time nominate. Jamie Lee Curtis: Oh my goodness me. What a thrill. And such a beautiful piece of work. David Canfield: Yes. Jamie Lee Curtis: Such a beautiful piece of work, that whole movie. Um, thank you so much for taking such nice time. David Canfield: Yes. Thank you, Jamie Lee Curtis. Congratulations. Jamie Lee Curtis: Thank you so much. Jamie Lee Curtis is smiling. David Canfield: Jamie Lee Curtis is smiling. Katey Rich: That does it for today's episode. We'll be back on Thursday with our regular round table conversation, answering some of your questions as well. In the meantime, you can find us on Twitter @VFAwardsInsider. You can email us at littlegoldmen@vf.com, we always want to hear your questions. Uh, you can follow me on Twitter @KateyRich and David @DavidCanfield97, our editor and producer as always is Brett Fuchs.