Chioma Nnadi: Welcome to The Run-Through with Vogue. I'm Chioma Nnadi. Chloe Malle: And I'm Chloe Malle. And it's our first episode of 2023. In the spirit of New Year's resolutions, we are speaking with the one and only Hailey Bieber about health and wellness, beauty, and of course fashion. Chioma Nnadi: And we'll also be talking with Senator Kirsten Gillibrand about what's on the docket for 2023 in the Capitol and how she envisions a better future for the fashion industry and its workers. Chloe Malle: But first we wanna talk about our headlines this week. Chioma, I wanna hear your headline of your vacation. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: You went home to London. Chioma Nnadi: I went home to London, which was really nice but really rainy. Very nice. How about you? Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: Where were you? Chloe Malle: I was in California where blessedly it was warm and sunny and my toddler got to run into the ocean. It was crazy. Um- Chioma Nnadi: You look sun-kissed. Chloe Malle: It was delightful. Thank you very much. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: So that was very nice. But it was riddled with push alerts from the New York Times- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Chloe Malle: ... about various legends who were passing away. First it was Pele, then Vivienne Westwood, then Barbara Walters, then the pope. Sorry, not the pope. The pope emeritus. Chioma Nnadi: Right, right, right. It is such a strange thing to me that, you know, a few high profile people always pass around the holidays, you know? Chloe Malle: There's the rule of threes, which is that celebrities always die in threes. I mean there's a shocking number of examples of when that's happened. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: And after, uh, Barbara Walters died, I was like oof. And then the pope ruined the rule. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: And made it a rule of four, but that's okay. One thing that I kept thinking of with all these people was my son keeps being gifted these books, like Little People Big Dreams, which are like children's books about legends in their fields. And it was kinda crazy that all four of these people have their own books from this series. My husband is a huge soccer fan, so. Chioma Nnadi: Does your husband agree that he was the greatest footballer of all time? Or- or- or are we kinda bumping up against Messi with this? Chloe Malle: I think we're bumping up against Messi at this point. But Pele definitely had more swagger than most people. I feel like he was one the of the first real celebrity athletes. Um, who really went off the field. But anyway, RIP to Pele. And then Barbara Walters who, I can't believe she was 93. It's just- Chioma Nnadi: Me either. Chloe Malle: ... unbelievable. Chioma Nnadi: When did she start working is my question. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Barbara Walters got her first job at NBC in 1953. So it's- Chioma Nnadi: How long did she- Chloe Malle: Long time ago. Chioma Nnadi: Like when was her last big interview? Chloe Malle: Well she retired in 2015, I believe. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Right. Chloe Malle: And all of these amazing women, sort of her colleagues and peers came to her last, uh, taping of The View. So she had a big send off. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Chloe Malle: But I mean I have to say, reading all the obits of her, I always think of her as being a pioneer for women in journalism. But reading the stories, it is just remarkable that she says that s- the first job she was hired for her legs, and then her boss was always trying to hit on her so she had to leave. And then at NBC, she was called a Today girl and was only went on air when she was, uh, you know, covering Paris Fashion Week or dressed up as a Playboy bunny. And then when she finally was co-host of the Today Show, she was specifically told, "You cannot ask a subject any questions until the male co-host have asked three first." Chioma Nnadi: That is unbelievable. Chloe Malle: And then Vivienne Westwood. Chioma Nnadi: I know. I know. Such a sad day in fashion. Chloe Malle: Did that ruin your vacation? [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Well- [laughs]. Well, I mean it's interesting because, you know, often we hear about designers who are perhaps not doing well and we sort of begin to prepare, we begin to look for- Chloe Malle: So you had no obit prepared for her. Chioma Nnadi: No. Not- not really. I mean she was obviously older. She died at 81. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: Um- Chloe Malle: That is a spring chicken at this point. Chioma Nnadi: Right. I mean there was no- there was no cause of- of death given. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: She's having a private, um, memorial. Chloe Malle: Still no cause of death given? Interesting. Chioma Nnadi: No. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: I think it's all been quite a private. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: Um, and- and yeah, we had the news. I was in London. It was late and then, you know, my Instagram feed was flooded. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: With tributes. And you saw the next day that people were laying flowers at Worlds End with these really beautiful tributes to her. Chloe Malle: What is Worlds End? Chioma Nnadi: It's where, um, they- the first Vivienne Westwood store was that she opened with. Chloe Malle: Is it a street? Chioma Nnadi: Worlds End, it's a place- it's a place. It's in Chelsea. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Her and Malcolm McLaren sort of launched their own- the whole business there. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: She was obviously known as the queen or the godmother of- of punk, but I think, you know, it's interesting going through all of the obits and reading all of the tributes. You- you just kind of forget that she was first and foremost, at least in later on in life, a- an environmental activist. You know, that was- that became her cause. Chloe Malle: Yeah. She really predated that being- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I mean she was about, you know, clothes had meaning. Clo- clothes had, you know, her work had so much substance, and politics. There was always this sort of underlying political charge in her work. I mean that's obviously where her instinct for punk came from. And she continued that with her work around sustainability. And yeah, I think she- she was kind of one of the first designers to really raise the alarm around- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... just how dire the situation is, specifically in fashion. I think she'd want to be remembered that way, you know, as- as someone who really sort of walked the walk. Obviously had incredible style and was incredibly beautiful when you look at all of the different- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... throughout the [inaudible 00:05:39]- Chloe Malle: And such a shape shifter. I mean seeing all the different pictures- Chioma Nnadi: Completely. Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... she really, she went from like snaggletooth punk to- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... soigné, Dior-esque suit. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: I mean that Dior-esque suit that she wore to pick up her OBE, you know, is definitely one of my favorite fashion moments because obviously she- she twirled. Chloe Malle: Who made that suit? Did she? Chioma Nnadi: I think she made the suit. She twirled and didn't have any underwear on. She always- Chloe Malle: Ah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. So she flashed the paparazzi. We don't know whether it was intentional, but- Chloe Malle: Oh we know. Chioma Nnadi: We know it was intentional with her. She was always subversive. There was always something more to her. There was always like a rebel streak. I don't think fashion will ever be the same again, you know? And- and I think there are so few kind of iconoclastic women like her. Looking back at some of her collections, you know, I loved some of the, you know, the- the collections that were inspired by the- the old master paintings. I have some of those t-shirts. And those videos of, um, all of the supermodels kind of in- in those Mary Antoinette style dresses. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: With the powdered faces and the- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Just divine. You know, like those dresses are just so great. And she ended up actually having a really big bridal business. I remember thinking looking at one of her collections- Chloe Malle: I have a lot of friends who've gotten married in her dresses. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: I think they're great. Chioma Nnadi: We have a story, British Vogue's working on a story about it. Yeah. All these women that have gotten married in Vivienne Westwood. I mean she knew how to make that dramatic kind of ultra feminine silhouette. Chloe Malle: Well also for someone who's not a waif. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: I mean she really- Chioma Nnadi: She understood- she understood- Chloe Malle: She understood women's bodies. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. You're right. Such a loss. Chloe Malle: Anti-Ozempic dresses. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: The Nozempic dress. Chioma Nnadi: The Nozempic dress. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Moving on. Chioma Nnadi: Moving on. Moving on. Chloe Malle: Number four, poor Pope Benedict the XVI. I just felt bad because the poor Vatican spokesman had to work so hard in every [inaudible 00:07:31] he said about this to be like, "Pope emeritus, ope emeritus," so people didn't confuse it with the current pope. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Because he's the first pope in 600 years to retire and not die on the job. Chioma Nnadi: Oh wow. Chloe Malle: So now- Chioma Nnadi: I was a bit confused, to be honest. Chloe Malle: It is confusing. The push alert was like, "Pope dies." I was like okay. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: And it wasn't the pope. So now they have to figure out how to do the funeral because the pope's gonna be presiding over the pope's funeral. It's sort of like- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: ... uh, Huck Finn when he like looks at his own funeral from the rafters. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Um, that's this week. Chioma Nnadi: Okay. Chloe Malle: And- Chioma Nnadi: Next week, Golden Globes. Chloe Malle: That's true. Next week Golden Globes. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: And on t- two things on Tuesday, big deal, the Golden Globes and- Chioma Nnadi: And. Chloe Malle: Harry's memoir. Chioma Nnadi: Oh yes. Oh, oh. Chloe Malle: Because we can't get enough. Chioma Nnadi: There's a CBS interview, there's a CBS interview on Sunday. Chloe Malle: I know. On 60 Minutes. Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Yeah. That'll be interesting. Chloe Malle: And apparently like every UK tabloid on Tuesday when that clip was released, every c- headline was, "Harry wants dad and brother back." There was like nothing about the UK economy. [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Nothing about [inaudible 00:08:32]. Chioma Nnadi: I have to say being in the UK m- made me realize just how h- how kind of despised Mary- Meg- Meghan Markle is. Like it was actually a little much. Chloe Malle: British people are not pleased about all this. Is that fair? Chioma Nnadi: No. They're not. They're not pleased. But I think that there's a lot of toxic masculinity going on. I mean we know Piers Morgan hates her. Chloe Malle: What do people you know in the UK, like what do your parents think about? Did they watch the Netflix, do they care? Are they pro Harry, are they pro Meghan? Chioma Nnadi: I mean, all I can say is that, you know, my dad just thinks, hates King Charles. Chloe Malle: Interesting. Chioma Nnadi: He- he- he cannot stop talking about Diana even though it was like- Chloe Malle: Aw. Chioma Nnadi: I know. He's just like, "Bless that woman." Chloe Malle: Aw. Chioma Nnadi: He loved the queen but he hates the king. So I'm not sure where the Monarchy's headed at this point. Chloe Malle: All right. Well we should just check in with your father every few months. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: See- check the temperature and see what's happening. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I mean I think, yeah, I think people will be less interested in, or they'll be less kind of furor around what Harry has to say. But the vitriol's always- always directed at Meghan. But we'll see. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: After the break we're speaking with Hailey Bieber. Chloe Malle: Chioma, we learned a lot from Hailey, didn't we? For one thing, I'm gonna start using oil of oregano during cold and flu season. Chioma Nnadi: I know. And- and I'm never going to bed with makeup on again. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Hailey told us all about her beauty routine. She's very disciplined and that's what inspired her blockbuster skincare line Rhode. So that us plebeians can attempt to get her glazed donut skin, though thankfully the beauty of podcasting is you can eat a glazed donut instead of looking like one. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Nevermind. [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. I mean and she was also very upfront with us about all the details of her mini stroke she had last year, which was crazy to hear about. Chloe Malle: Yeah. I was surprised how open she was. It was refreshing and we'll let you guys hear for yourselves. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: Hi Hailey. You're in Palm Springs. Hailey Bieber: Hi. Yes, I'm in Palm Springs. Chloe Malle: It's 1:00 PM West Coast time, so what is like a typical morning look like out there for you? Hailey Bieber: Um, well usually I just get up and have a yummy breakfast and coffee. Every day's a little bit different but usually it's just super relaxed, super chill. I love Palm Springs. I think the desert is super, super beautiful, the scenery out here is super, super beautiful. Chioma Nnadi: H- hell on the skin though isn't it? [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: It's a little hell on the skin sometimes. Chioma Nnadi: Your skin looks amazing. Hailey Bieber: Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. [laughs]. Thank you. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: It is really dry out here. But, we love the humidifier, so. Chioma Nnadi: I always have a- a question I- I feel that a lot of people who start skincare brands start because, you know, there was a specific ... maybe they had an issue with their skin or there was a- something missing that they say. Why did skin become your thing? Hailey Bieber: Mm-hmm. Um, I think that for me, I've just always been very invested in skincare and invested in my skin. You know, I really learned a lot from my mom and my grandma. You know, when I was a kid I can remember like getting out of the shower, out of the bath, and then my mom was like, "You're not leaving this bathroom until I slather you like head to toe in hydration and creams and stuff." And my mom and my grandma are from Brazil and my nana was just always like very obsessive about her creams, her creams, her creams. Like she's always been obsessed with skincare and creams. And I think that kinda just got very like introduced to me at such a young age and it started so becoming part of my routine as a young person. Chloe Malle: Do they use Rhode now? Hailey Bieber: They do use Rhode now and they love Rhode. Chioma Nnadi: Were there any dos and don'ts that you learned from your mother or your grandmother? Were there any things that they strictly did like always wash off your makeup or were there sort of small things that you picked up from them that you've stick to this day? Hailey Bieber: Yeah. I mean I definitely think that the no sleeping with makeup thing is a big thing. I have literally never slept with makeup on ever. [laughs]. Because I feel like that's like- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: ... the cardinal sin. Like no matter what the circumstance is, I'm like I will find warm water and a washcloth to get this makeup off. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: One way or another, it's coming off. Chioma Nnadi: Discipline. Hailey Bieber: I think honestly the word you just used, discipline, is the biggest thing I learned from my mom and my grandma, just about like the discipline of staying on a routine. But I also think that I want straight to the point convenient skincare. And that was kind of what really sparked my philosophy with Rhode was just you don't have to have a lot of steps. You don't have to have really expensive, elaborate skincare for it to be a great skincare routine. Chloe Malle: What else is sort of the Hailey wellness routine? Like what are you doing fitness wise? Are you doing- are there other elements that make sure that you're in your best body? I was reading or listening to some podcast where they were talking about how you like did an allergy panel and food based on blood type. It seems like you're very aware of the skin you're in, no pun intended. Hailey Bieber: [laughs]. Yeah, I mean I think that I get sick very easily. Like if I'm not rested, if I'm not getting sleep, I'm just like- I crumble. Like I get just sick like that. So I stay on top of trying to take vitamins and again, I don't like to overdo it. I like to just take like simple immunity, like straight to the point things, especially when I'm traveling. Um- Chloe Malle: What's your like immunity, uh, vitamin of choice? Hailey Bieber: Um, yeah. I think the biggest thing that I stick to like consistency is oil of oregano and lysine. Chloe Malle: Okay. Hailey Bieber: And then other than that, I do think that being able to stay on a consistent like exercise routine is ... a lot of the time it's less about even just my body, it's more about my mind. I find that my anxiety feels lower when I'm moving my body. And the things that I really like to do for that, like I love Pilates, I've spoken a lot about Pilates. I used to be a ballet dancer. I feel like that the movement within Pilates and ballet is, you know, kind of really goes hand in hand. Chloe Malle: I was really impressed reading about like how thoughtful you are about your mental health and taking care of that anxiety. And that you really think about your social media presence. You've turned your comments off. You're off Twitter. Like how do you regimen how to take care of yourself? Hailey Bieber: I think that I'm constantly trying to gauge it and see how I feel. I think sometimes if you go looking for stuff, like you're gonna see stuff- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Hailey Bieber: ... that, um, is upsetting. It's like when you look at comments and it's like you focus in on the one bad comment. I think that the biggest pattern that I see with myself is that the more that I choose to disconnect from it and kinda stay as focused in the real world as possible then my anxiety's lower, I feel much happier, I feel more rested. I feel just better overall. That's why I kinda think that doing like breaks is good too. Like you just completely like unplugging. Chloe Malle: Do you delete it from your phone? Hailey Bieber: Yeah. I do sometimes. Chloe Malle: I'm more surprised by people who do that. [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: Yeah. It's not- I'm not gonna sit here and be like, "Yeah, I delete it for weeks at a time." That's like so not the case. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: Um, I mean it- it's kinda the case with TikTok. It's something I don't really like just go on myself anymore. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I- I'm a big fan of your YouTube channel and I think that you're a real natural on camera. Hailey Bieber: Thank you. Chioma Nnadi: When it comes to being more candid and more completely yourself and talking about difficult topics. Chloe Malle: You had a mini stroke and it's just something you never think you're clearly so healthy, so young. Hailey Bieber: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: And it was, uh, I think very important for people to hear how that can happen. Hailey Bieber: You know, it was something that was completely unexpected. You know, when you're 25 and you're young, you believe you're really healthy and you, you know, do things to maintain your health and all the doctors kept saying, "This is just kinda a perfect storm. It was a couple different factors that led to you having a small blood clot." And the blood clot traveled through the whole in my heart up to the brain which is why I had, you know, the- what they call a mini stroke. And it was definitely the scariest thing I've ever gone through. I mean to feel- Chloe Malle: It sounds terrifying. Hailey Bieber: Yeah. It was definitely really, really scary. And it's- it's interesting because when I had it, I was actually in Palm Springs at the same place that I'm at right now. And like, even the first t- couple times coming back here after was like a little bit of a strange triggering kind of feeling for me because it's like you just remember exactly how everything happened in that moment. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Hailey Bieber: But I think the bright side for me was that it led me to find out that I had this hole in my heart. And it's something that I was able to have a procedure done to close it. So they put a device in my heart- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Hailey Bieber: ... that's now in there forever. It's a permanent, um, permanent, uh, closure device. And basically that's it. You know, I have it in my heart forever and- Chloe Malle: Yeah. And you feel good? Hailey Bieber: The scar tissue- I feel good. Yeah. The- the hole is- is closed now. Um, you know, it took a couple months, uh, for it to heal all the way. And, you know, it's because the- the scar tissue has to grow back around the device in order for it to fully close that hole. Um, so it's just honestly, it's been a really interesting learning process and it was very difficult. I struggled with a lot of anxiety after. I struggled with a little bit of PTSD of just the fear of maybe it was gonna happen again. And it was just a feeling that I was like I never wanna- I never wanna experience that ever again. I mean it was so terrifying, so jarring, so discombobulating in every single way that you can imagine. Um, but yeah. I- I feel, I'm now, you know, seven months past the procedure. Chloe Malle: Right. Hailey Bieber: Eight months past having the TIA. And I feel like with time it gets better and it's gotten a lot better, um, as time has gone on and as I've healed and now knowing that the hole is closed, um, you know, it feels- it feels more complete for me. But it's something that I'm- I'm definitely very open to talking about if it could help anybody else. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Hailey Bieber: Um, then I'm- I'm always that. It was really hard for me to talk about it for a little while. Like even the video that I had made for my YouTube channel, it was hard for me to talk about that stuff. It brings back the feelings for me, um, of going through that experience. So, you know, it's a little bit easier. It gets easier and easier with time, um, to be able to talk about it and, you know, I'm just really grateful that I was able to, you know, have amazing doctors and nurses and people that helped me heal and helped me get to the bottom of what actually happened. Because I think when something scary like that happens and then there's no explanation, it's so much worse because then you're like well why and will this happen again and what's the reason and what was the cause. Chloe Malle: Yeah, of course. Hailey Bieber: And you're able to get to the bottom of it and then there was a solution, which I think is- that- that was the thing that made me feel so much better. And so grateful that I was like, all right, we know what it is, it's fixable. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Hailey Bieber: We can prevent this from ever happening again and now we're at that point where, um, you know, I- I don't have to feel worried about going through that again, so. Chioma Nnadi: Do you f- I find that when things like this happen, sometimes you- it's a moment obviously you- you find the bright side. It's also like a moment to sort of reevaluate how am I listening to my body, right? Hailey Bieber: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: How am I- was there a moment of reset? You know, when you're traveling so much. Chloe Malle: It sounds like you're very on top of your body anyway. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Yeah. Hailey Bieber: To experience something I had zero control over happening in my body was very scary and very jarring. I also didn't want it to turn me into the type of person that was going to be afraid all the time of like something bad happening. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Hailey Bieber: Because I struggle with that anxiety just in general already. Like I'm just- I struggle with anxiety, period, about several different things in life. I'm just now starting to come out of that kind of fight or flight feeling of being nervous about something bad happening a- again or having another mini stroke. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Hailey Bieber: Or the hole in my heart not being closed. I mean there's so many thoughts that are like going through your head so much. The biggest reset for me was like having to really digest and know that yes, this is something that happened to me, yes it was very scary, yes it was like a freak situation, but you're okay now and we did get to the bottom of it. And you do have a healthy body, you are a healthy 26-year-old woman. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Hailey Bieber: Like at this point, after that happened, I'm like I spent so much of my brain time thinking about this situation that I'm at the point where I'm like I'd like to be able to continue to release it and just like live my life and enjoy it. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Hailey Bieber: Because I felt so edgy about it for- for the last like almost year. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I think it's- it's tempting to kind of feel that your body's letting you down. Like, you know, in those moments when you feel like I've done all this work, but my body's letting me down. Whereas you sort of have to see it the other way. It's like wow I'm so lucky to be able to move forward and- Chloe Malle: Bounce back. Chioma Nnadi: ... kind of bounce back, you know. Hailey Bieber: Yeah. Absolutely. And I look back at it and it could've been so much worse. So many- so many worse things could've happened in that moment. And, you know, I'm just grateful that I'm okay. And that is like where I kind of have to stay mentally. Chloe Malle: Hailey, what are you wearing? What's your favorite thing that you're wearing right now? Not at this moment, but, you know, in life. Hailey Bieber: Well right now as the weather's starting to change a little bit, I mean it's not as chilly as New York but LA does, uh, have its like small season of getting cooler and like a nice small little fall situation. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Hailey Bieber: Um, you know, I really do love finding great vintage pieces, vintage leather jackets. Like I kind of have been like scouring Depop for like just cool kind of upcycled leather jackets, and I- I joke with people all the time 'cause it'll be like 90 degrees outside and I'll have a huge leather jacket with me. And they're like, "What are you doing?" Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: And I'm like, "You're not- you're not gonna take me out of my leather jacket world." Chloe Malle: Yeah. That makes sense. Chioma Nnadi: I think you- you- the general consensus in our office, you are the queen of- of oversized outerwear. We literally did a story today, it was you as the inspiration. Hailey Bieber: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: And I think you're a real New York girl when it comes to your outerwear, right? Because I think that's not an LA thing. Hailey Bieber: No. Chioma Nnadi: Um, but I think you show them how it's done. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: Aw, thanks. Well, I definitely feel like being from New York, my style is inspired by that a lot of the time. I dress even a little bit differently when I go back to New York. I'm just like I'm back baby. Chioma Nnadi: How so? How do you dress [inaudible 00:23:38]- Chloe Malle: [inaudible 00:23:38]- Hailey Bieber: This is my New York style. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: Especially in the winter in New York. Like I can really go for it with like layers and like a big coat with a big chunky scarf. Where it's like it may be like one step too far in LA, and that's something I love and I miss about New York is just like that seasonal change for even the clothes that you wear is so great and so fun. Chioma Nnadi: For the record everyone, Hailey is wearing a New York sweatshirt, so she's definitely repping. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: Exactly. Chioma Nnadi: You've tried your hand at designing and your husband also designs. Like is fashion a conversation that you guys style have? 'Cause I think you have really great couple style. Hailey Bieber: Thank you. Chioma Nnadi: I know it's kind of like a kind of a funny- I think it's a funny balance to strike because you don't wanna be twinning, right? But you're- Hailey Bieber: No. Chioma Nnadi: ... you complement each other. Like what is the conversation around style with you and your husband. Hailey Bieber: I think what's nice is when you're with somebody and you have a partner that- that you both like a certain thing, obviously. I mean for us, I like to wear a lot of men's clothes and big oversized stuff. So what happ- what ends up happening is like we're able to share a lot of stuff, which I think is so- Chloe Malle: Oh, that's cute. Hailey Bieber: ... fun and so nice. When I was designing the wardrobe NYC stuff, the thing at the forefront of my mind was how can you both wear this, how can you go into your girlfriend or boyfriend or person's closet and like steal this from them and it work on so many different body shapes and heights and I really wanted it to feel like it could be worn literally by anybody. And the first time that I got final samples of like the sweats and stuff and I asked Justin to put them on so I could see how they fit on him, I was like so happy because- Chloe Malle: Aw. Hailey Bieber: ... the way that they sat on him and the way that they sat on me was like exactly what I was envisioning. I ask his input a lot on- on different things in my personal style. And I'm like, "What do you think about this?" And just being able to connect on that. Chloe Malle: Do you guys ever disagree? Hailey Bieber: Yeah. For sure. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Hailey Bieber: And I think when we disagree, it's just like okay. Like if- if he doesn't like something, that's his taste and if I don't like something, that's my taste. Chioma Nnadi: It does seem like you're h- like I love the playfulness of it. It seems like you're having so much fun, especially with off duty. Hailey Bieber: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: But we need to talk about red carpet stuff. How do you feel? 'Cause I feel that's- that seems like it's a Hailey alter ego. I mean you look so glam in your Saint Laurent, like what is the fun of getting dressed up? And where do you feel like you're most you? Do you feel more of- more of sort of an off duty girl or do you love the red carpet? What's the difference? Like what's the fun there? Chloe Malle: It's the yin yang. Hailey Bieber: Yeah. I think I like the opposite ends of the spectrum. I think because red carpet is so glamorous and like beautiful. And the Saint Laurent pieces are so amazing and so beautiful. You know, in my day to day style, I'm very much just me all the time and I wanna be comfortable and I wanna wear things that feel like an expression of myself. And I wanna be like kind of a little bit toned down and like not really wear any makeup and kinda just feel very like fresh and comfortable. And I think as I've gotten older and my style has evolved, I've learned what I like to wear on red carpets, what shapes, what different things work for me more than other things have in the past. And I've also learned even with my hair and makeup that less is more for me and I find that I- I like the way it photographs better. And I hope for me that it's like I continue to evolve in my red carpet style. And I think that it's in a much different place than it used to be. Chloe Malle: What would be the one item of clothing you would take to a desert item? Hailey Bieber: Am I gonna sound really crazy if I say a leather jacket? Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Yes. Chloe Malle: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: I love it. I- I love it. That's spoken like a true New Yorker. Hailey Bieber: Because- because- because if we're going to a desert island, right? It's like it can kinda like take the wear and tear, right? Chloe Malle: Hilarious. Okay. Hailey Bieber: It's going to protect me. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Yeah. Could double as a tent, if it's big enough. Hailey Bieber: Exactly. Chioma Nnadi: It was so lovely to have you on the show. Thank you so much Hailey. Hailey Bieber: Thank you guys so much for having me. I was really excited about doing this and I'm glad. Chloe Malle: All right. Happy New Year. Hailey Bieber: Happy New Year. Good talking to you guys. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: You too. Chloe Malle: Bye. Chioma Nnadi: After the break we'll be hearing from Senator Kirsten Gillibrand who will be talking to us about everything basically, including her son's sneakers and her groundbreaking, um, FABRIC Act. Chloe Malle: Chioma, Vogue loves a female politician in a power suit. Chioma Nnadi: We sure do. Chloe Malle: I mean I- I cannot count the number of Annie Leibovitz portraits on the steps of the Washington Monument or political building- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: ... with a woman leader striding powerfully through the wind. And, uh, New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand is no expectation. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I mean you gotta love it. Chloe Malle: I do. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Last spring, the senator showed up to the Vogue offices and she talked to us about a new bill she's introduced called the FABRIC Act. You'll hear more about it from her. But the main idea is to address exploitation of the largely female workforce which makes the majority of our clothing in the US. Chloe Malle: Right. It's workplace protections for the garment industry, which are sorely needed. And we actually chatted with senator twice. Once, uh, right before the holiday break to check in with her about the results of the midterm elections and hear about what she's excited to tackle on the Senate floor in 2023. And also earlier in the fall when she had just, uh, sent both of her sons to school after doing some back to school shopping. Chioma Nnadi: Hello. Kirsten Gillibrand: How are you guys? Chioma Nnadi: Good. Good. Chloe Malle: Thank you so much for coming on to chat with us, uh, Senator Gillibrand. We're so excited to hear about this. Where are you right now? Kirsten Gillibrand: I'm in the Capitol. I have votes this afternoon, so I'm in Washington DC, voting. Chloe Malle: Fantastic. Have you been shopping recently? Have you- I mean I'm just- Kirsten Gillibrand: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: We were chatting about like how this act has maybe affected your personal habits. Like do you go back to school shopping with your sons? Kirsten Gillibrand: Yes, they do a great deal of shopping. And I have, uh, I just dropped my son, uh, my oldest son off in California because he's going to college in northern California and he's very excited. Um, and I had to buy him lots of new stuff for school. So that was very fun. You know, Theo, uh, the- the 18-year-old's wearing recycled sneakers that, um, is a- a brand, Allbirds, where they talk about their, um, uh, sustainability and how they, um, reuse them. And so, Theo just- he literally made me clean those sneakers like three times since he's been home so they are fresh and white and didn't have to buy a new pair. But like that's what this generation of 18-year-olds cares about. But my younger boy, he likes recycled clothing. He really likes thrifting and he likes to buy previously worn awesome t-shirts and sweatshirts and- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. We love that he likes vintage. This is very sustainable. We love it. Kirsten Gillibrand: He loves vintage. But most women designers are not made in the United States and it's hard. And most lower cost clothing unfortunately is made still abroad, in places like China and Mexico. And so, I think this is very timely topic because women who want to spend their money in a more sustainable way need guideposts about how to do that. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I mean. I remember when- when you were here last you sort of gave me the sort of guide to the FABRIC Act for idiots. [laughs]. And I'd love for you to sort of give us- Kirsten Gillibrand: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... break it down into really simplified form. Kirsten Gillibrand: So, it's a pot of money that is designed to help manufacturers manufacture in a more sustainable way, green types of manufacturing. Whether they're going to put manufacturing back in America, it creates a new office within the Department of Labor, just for the garment industry. It's exciting. Very much focused on the workers themselves that are underpaid, oftentimes for piecemeal work. Chloe Malle: And just for listeners who don't know what it's like right now to be a garment worker. First of all, it's an 80% female industry. Many of the women are migrant women, so they maybe don't have the voice or the resources to speak out about this. They are being an under minimum wage for a lot of their pace rate. Is that all correct? What does it look like right now? Why is this needed? Kirsten Gillibrand: When we started writing this bill, we had heard of stories of shops that will pay a certain rate per piece of clothing at the start of the day but can cut that rate when the workers come back from lunch to keep costs down. We've also heard stories of shops that will underpay or refuse to pay their workers. They'll shut down, then reopen a shop across town under a different name to basically dodge the wage and hour enforcement rules. And so what the FABRIC Act does is create a level of transparency through this national registry that will be held under the Department of Labor. It'll be a national registry of all garment manufacturers to create transparency and accountability. So that brands and civil society groups can identify and root out the bad actors with a history of labor violations. Women lead this industry, from the factory floor to the runway, it's women. And so they disproportionately feel the impact when the labor standards aren't fair or when the work environment is unsafe. So if we make these changes it will empower women leaders who run the industry and it will empower women workers who are the heartbeat of this industry. Chioma Nnadi: I'm- I'm so curious to know what your conversations have been like with other people in the fashion industry. I know obviously that this is a conversation you've had with Vogue. Kirsten Gillibrand: So when I talk to industry leaders, they are very invested in how to reform the industry in a way that makes it more sustainable. A lot of industry leaders care deeply about global climate change and wanna know what can they do to address it directly through clean air, through clean water, through better practices. They wanna know how do we make America an industry leader and how do we compete with a place like China. In 1995, China employed 1.75 million people in the garment and other fiber products manufacturing and the US employed 791,000. By 2020, China employees three million people in the manufacturing of textile, wearing apparel, and accessories. Chloe Malle: Oh my God. Kirsten Gillibrand: Whereas the US only employs 90,000. You know, I sit on the Intelligence Committee, I sit on the Armed Services Committee and we need to understand that we need a supply chain that is not dependent on China, on a country that may well decide to be adversarial against the United States some day. And create better policies so that America can lead, not just in fashion, but in domestic manufacturing and sustainable policies. Chloe Malle: Our listeners are probably wondering, I love fashion, I love to shop. This is why I'm listening to a Vogue podcast. But I'm also concerned about this. How do we as consumers help promote the fair and equitable act of creating the clothing that we wear. Are there certain ways to shop, certain brands, certain ways to be involved? What would you recommend for being the most conscientious consumer? Kirsten Gillibrand: So, I think this is an issue that has come to the fore because of consumers. Vast majority of Americans, 69% of Americans, said that they prefer products that are made in the United States. Now we have a lot of brands that have already endorsed this bill, so you can be any type of thought leader in this space by how you spend your money and how you talk about what you wear as a projection of your values. And I think smart brands will pay attention to that. Chioma Nnadi: So what now? The- the bill was introduced in May and went to the House of Representatives in- in July. Like what- what's next? Where will we be by the end of this year? Kirsten Gillibrand: Well we need Republicans who wanna do this. And so, there are not many fashion forward senators, maybe a handful. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Kirsten Gillibrand: But, um, so that part of it might not be the hook. But maybe this issue of sustainability or this issue of human rights will be appealing to them. But we all can work harder at it and it's- it will be fun. When's the last time you gave you permission to have a bigger shopping budget to get new clothes? Chloe Malle: Exactly. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Kirsten Gillibrand: So this can be our wishlist of what new clothes we want and how we're gonna find, uh, sustainable designers. Chloe Malle: We just wanted to check back in with you and hear a little bit about what your reaction to the midterms were. Did they defy expectations? Was it all you hoped for and more? Kirsten Gillibrand: Well we defied expectations. What was so exciting about the midterms is in a normal year, the party in power should have lost 20 to 40 House seats and we would've lost the Senate. But because the grassroots was so dedicated to our values and our agenda, that they really worked hard and we only lost a handful of seats in the House and in the Senate we held the majority and won an additional seat. I think it had a lot to do with the Dobbs decision. A lot of women were that incremental voter who was just outraged by how unexpected and how far reaching this opinion was to not only upend Roe v Wade but to do it by declaring women of reproductive years do not have a right to privacy. Uh, whereas some red states are not prosecuting a mom and a daughter who are talking on Facebook. And, uh, parents who take a 10-year-old rape victim across state lines. I think the extremity of this Supreme Court decision, uh, really led to a lot of women voting. Chloe Malle: And how do you think these results affect the next presidential election? Does it make it easier? Does it make it harder? Kirsten Gillibrand: I think it, uh, will continue to engage voters in 2024. And I think that people still wanna see common sense bipartisan work getting done. And one thing that President Biden has done is passed more bipartisan pieces of legislation than any other president in modern history, including, uh, my bipartisan gun trafficking bill, including the infrastructure bill that had a provision that I wrote to build local and hire local, to get more local workers. It included, uh, the bills to get the price of prescription drugs down, as well as investments in green energy. So there's such a wide ranging agenda that President Biden got accomplished. I think if he can tell the country more about what he did and why, and why this Congress worked effectively, we will have a better time of winning in 2024 as well. Chloe Malle: And you will be running again, I read, no? Kirsten Gillibrand: Yeah. I'm running for Senate. And I'm very excited about it. I've already started my reelection campaign. Chloe Malle: Fantastic. What's at the top of the docket when the Senate reconvenes in January? Kirsten Gillibrand: Yes. So, in the new year, uh, we will continue our push for judges. Uh, that's something that's unique to the Senate, we get to approve all judges. And making sure we have thoughtful, well trained, highly qualified judges. Uh, if we, um, can work on a bipartisan basis, we can keep moving forward on, uh, strengthening our healthcare system, strengthening our school system, uh, helping the economy grow. Um, making sure that all the programs we just passed come to fruition and grant programs. So making sure the money for infrastructure goes to good infrastructure projects in New York. Making sure the money that we put forward for mental health gets spent properly. Getting our not for profits who are doing violence disruption work to apply for that mental health money under the gun bill. To make sure we are training the next generation of healthcare workers. I put provisions in for a health force this year and we need more people to apply for that money. So we have more community health workers in New York state. So a lot of it's implementing bills that have already been passed to make sure the money flows in the way it was supposed to flow. Um, the FABRIC Act I think we have a chance, uh, as being one of the main bipartisan bills we can work on this year. I think it is something that is fundamentally common sense and so I'm optimistic that we can find good bipartisan support. Chloe Malle: Wow. And will you tell us a little bit about, uh, your New Year's resolutions. Kirsten Gillibrand: I think I will be doing some cleansing. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Okay. Kirsten Gillibrand: Lots of cleanses in the New Year. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Kirsten Gillibrand: I'll be cleansing, detoxifying. Doing all those things. Chloe Malle: What is a cleansing regimen look like for you? Kirsten Gillibrand: So I need to do things like bone broth cleanses where you get lots of protein. Um, really eliminating grains and dairy and, uh, what else do you eliminate? Alcohol. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Kirsten Gillibrand: Oh my goodness. Chioma Nnadi: That's a tough one. Chloe Malle: That's grain. Kirsten Gillibrand: This is very detoxifying. So I'm gonna try that. Um, I'm gonna try and do it for a month. We'll see how it goes. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Wow. Kirsten Gillibrand: So my January's gonna be very dry. Very dry. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Is this something that you do every year? Or is it a new t- something that you're doing for the first time? Kirsten Gillibrand: You know, I've done it over many, many years different times and it always works. Uh, so I will be doing it again. Um, I also love, uh, sports and working out. So, but I do that year round. I don't need to add that. I do Pilates two or three times a week. I started boxing. I just started it- Chloe Malle: Oh, I love boxing. Kirsten Gillibrand: ... two weeks- three weeks ago, doing it regularly. Um, I have a boxing lesson tomorrow morning at 7:15. So, I'll be doing boxing. Chloe Malle: Fantastic. Kirsten Gillibrand: And I will be doing, what else? Tennis. Tennis I keep every- that's part of my staples. Chloe Malle: Indoors in the winter? You're year round? Kirsten Gillibrand: Indoors in the winter. Yep. So I'll be doing more tennis. And keeping up with Pilates and adding in a little more boxing. Chloe Malle: Love that. Are you- do you and your sons do any sports together? Kirsten Gillibrand: Yes. So the boys both like tennis. Chloe Malle: Okay. Kirsten Gillibrand: And they actually both like squash. And so I stopped playing squash during COVID 'cause you're in a tiny box with somebody else. Chloe Malle: Yeah, that's true. [laughs]. Kirsten Gillibrand: So you're definitely gonna get their COVID if they have it. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Kirsten Gillibrand: Um, so I didn't do it during COVID. But I think I'm gonna start playing squash again in the new year. That'll be fun. Chloe Malle: That's exciting. Chioma Nnadi: That really gets your heart rate up. That is an intense cardio. Kirsten Gillibrand: Oh my God. And you're j- you sweat like crazy. So that is very detoxifying. Chloe Malle: And most important question is how did your son's shoes fair? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: 'Cause he was very focused on keeping them clean in college. And you said you were very curious whether he was gonna be able to do that. [laughs]. Kirsten Gillibrand: No. No. No, he failed. Um- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Kirsten Gillibrand: He- he- he- he'll just get- he'll get some new ones I think is what will happen. Chloe Malle: Okay. Santa might come in there. Kirsten Gillibrand: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The boys are so funny. Chioma Nnadi: I don't know if you have a mindfulness routine. Um, 'cause I imagine that keeping a cool head in the Senate must be important. Kirsten Gillibrand: Yeah. I don't know. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Kirsten Gillibrand: I guess I need to get one of those. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Kirsten Gillibrand: I don't know what they really look like. Chloe Malle: Well thank you so much. And happy New Year. Kirsten Gillibrand: Thank you. Happy New Year to you both. Chioma Nnadi: Happy New Year. Kirsten Gillibrand: Take care. Chioma Nnadi: Bye. Kirsten Gillibrand: Bye-bye. Chloe Malle: Between the two of them, Hailey and Senator Gillibrand, I'm ready to go whole hog on Pilates. Chioma Nnadi: I know. What's your New Year's resolution? Matter of fact. Chloe Malle: Um, great question. Well I'm having a very wet January I've decided. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: I'm not having dry January. I have two children under three and I'm gonna be having as much wine as I want 'cause I am that cliché. Uh, so I will not be having bone broth like Senator Gillibrand. But I wish her well. [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. My resolutions are to cook more. Chloe Malle: Oh, that's good. Chioma Nnadi: 'Cause I've just retreated into delivery mode in the last few months. Chloe Malle: Yeah. You've got a lot on your plate. Chioma Nnadi: Eh, yeah. Chloe Malle: Chioma told me today- Chioma Nnadi: Gotta get back. Chloe Malle: ... that she r- has 200,000 unread emails. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. And if that stresses you out, well welcome to my life. Chloe Malle: Yeah. I mean, I- I like seized with panic when I heard that. Chioma Nnadi: I know. A lot of p- I don't show my screen to a lot of people for that reason. Chloe Malle: I feel very intimate in that we've just shared with the group. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Now I'm totally exposed. Chloe Malle: It's true. [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Maybe that should be my resolution. Chloe Malle: Open one email a day. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: That's only gonna take you what? 10 years? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. The Run-Through with Vogue is a production of Condé Nast Entertainment. Make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you like the show, please rate and review it. Chioma Nnadi: And we wanna hear from you. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Send us a hello or any questions or thoughts you have about the show to therunthrough@vogue.com. I'm Chioma Nnadi. Chloe Malle: And I'm Chloe Malle. Bye. Chioma Nnadi: Bye.