Chloe Malle: Welcome to The Run-Through with Vogue. I'm Chloe Malle. Chioma Nnadi: And I'm Chioma Nnadi. And this week on the show, we have one of our good friends and colleague. Chloe Malle: And colleague. Chioma Nnadi: Welcome, Taylor. Taylor Antrim: Yeah, hi. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: Hi, guys. Chioma Nnadi: Well, uh- Chloe Malle: Taylor Antrim- Taylor Antrim: [laughs] Yes. Can you- Chloe Malle: ... executive editor of Vogue. Taylor Antrim: No, God, start over. Chloe Malle: Taylor Antrim, deputy editor of Vogue. Taylor Antrim: There you go, there you go. That's me. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Taylor Antrim: Hello, everyone. Chloe Malle: And, uh, chief film critic at Vogue. Taylor Antrim: Ooh, I love it. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: I love it. Chioma Nnadi: Yes, yes. Chloe Malle: Has joined us to discuss- Chioma Nnadi: Un- unofficially, unofficially [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Yeah, unofficially officially- Taylor Antrim: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... has joined us to discuss the hottest award season contenders. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: I have great curiosity about Chioma's- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Chloe Malle: ... best dressed from the Golden Globes. Chioma Nnadi: Well, the- Taylor Antrim: Yeah, me too. Chioma Nnadi: I felt like the clothes were not the main event, but there was a lot of discussion in the group Slack channel, and also on Twitter, apparently, the fact that none of the presenters asked credits. Did you notice that? Chloe Malle: At the beginning? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: You mean, in the interviews? Chioma Nnadi: Usually, the first thing that they do is they say, "What are you wearing? Tell us what you're wearing." Chloe Malle: No, but that's been years that they haven't been allowed to do that. Chioma Nnadi: No, they've done that. They've done that. Chloe Malle: No, no, no. There's been a whole campaign over the past four years to not ask women first what they're wearing, particularly. Chioma Nnadi: But they did at some point address it. Chloe Malle: But I thought that, um, Laverne Cox asked- Chioma Nnadi: I missed Laverne, sorry. I missed Laverne. Chloe Malle: I was watching Laverne, and she was saying to people, "Tell me about the story you're telling with your outfit." Which I thought was a hilarious way to side step that. Chioma Nnadi: And that's- Chloe Malle: You're right, they definitely don't ask anymore- Chioma Nnadi: They don't ask anymore, and- Chloe Malle: ... as... Like, it used to be the first question, you got all your credits. Chioma Nnadi: They should still... I just think- Chloe Malle: I know, I agree. Chioma Nnadi: Why completely... I get it, we're more than the sum of our dress, but- Chloe Malle: [laughs] We're more than the sum of our Cartier. Chioma Nnadi: Heck, yeah. [laughs] But you want to know. I want to know, and I think it's, it kind of annoyed me. Anyway, I don't when this rule was eliminated or made, or- Chloe Malle: It's been a gradual shift. Chioma Nnadi: It's been a gradual shift. Chloe Malle: Yes, okay. Chioma Nnadi: First, I'd like to call out Emma D'Arcy. Taylor Antrim: Who? Chloe Malle: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: They looked incredible in Acne. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: They were the, one of the few people in this- Chloe Malle: They are an actor from House of Dragons- Chioma Nnadi: House of Dragons. Chloe Malle: ... Game of Thrones spin off. Taylor Antrim: House of the Dragon. Chloe Malle: Yup. Chioma Nnadi: House of the Dragons. Chloe Malle: [laughs] House of Dragons is a board game. Chioma Nnadi: And- Taylor Antrim: I mean, if it's gonna win a Golden Globe, you've got to, like, name it properly. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] And on screen they're a blonde, but in real life they were a brunette. Chloe Malle: Yeah, they were wearing, like- Chioma Nnadi: At the awards, they wore an oversized suit, which, uh, a tuxedo and- and it was really fun. It was, uh, Acne, so a younger brand, not going with the kind of, you know. A little bit sort of interesting. Chloe Malle: But also, they had like a very intense blue eyeliner and like one- Chioma Nnadi: And a glittery shoe. Chloe Malle: ... one tear coming down, and I couldn't tell- Chioma Nnadi: This I missed [laughs]. Chloe Malle: ... if they did that on purpose, like a Johnny Depp, Cry-Baby thing- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: ... or if they just teared up, because they were also very emotional about being there. Chioma Nnadi: Right, right. And then got trashed with the other, their costar, on set, stage. Chloe Malle: Oh, yeah, yeah. She had fun. Chioma Nnadi: But we'll, we'll save that for later. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: Yeah. We- we got to get the drunk celebs there. Chioma Nnadi: We gotta get to the s- drunk celebs later. And who, who else did I love? Taylor Antrim: Truly the raison d'etre for the whole operation- Chloe Malle: Golden Globes, yes. Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: The whole- Taylor Antrim: ... yeah, is drunk celebs. Chioma Nnadi: The whole- Taylor Antrim: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... Golden Globes was, seriously, that was... for me, that was the whole point. But, I thought Daisy Edgar-Jones looked good in Gucci. There were a lot of people in Gucci. She needed to dial out with the glam. I thought Michelle Yeoh looked really good. Chloe Malle: Yeah, in her Armani sort of- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, yeah. Chloe Malle: ... beaded, sequined, peplum. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, she looked chic. Chloe Malle: And long hair. There was a lot of, um- Chioma Nnadi: And obviously, Rihanna. Chloe Malle: ... good hair moment. Chioma Nnadi: Rihanna- Chloe Malle: Oh, yes. Yes. Chioma Nnadi: ... who did not show up on the carpet in Schiaparelli. Her hair was incredible. We actually- Chloe Malle: It reminded me of George Costanza- Chioma Nnadi: My colleague spoke to her. Chloe Malle: ... uh, Costanza when he [laughing] says that he- he's dream in life is to be swaddled in velvet. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: ... just be draped in velvet [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, and usually I'm not here for black on the red carpet, but I thought she looked fabulous. Chloe Malle: No, she did. There were- there were some good velvet moments. Um, Selena Gomez in Valentino had sort of- Chioma Nnadi: Not my favorite. Chloe Malle: Okay, okay. Chioma Nnadi: Not my favorite. Chloe Malle: All right. Chioma Nnadi: The silhouette wasn't quite jelling for me, but loved Selena and the high pony tail on the carpet. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: If for that. Chloe Malle: I was very happy with a lot of suiting moments, I thought- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I thought the men really showed up and did- did well- Chloe Malle: Eddie Redmayne and his chocolate brown with that floppy [inaudible 00:04:02]- Chioma Nnadi: H- he- always... he always likes to try something different. Taylor Antrim: Yeah, I wanna hear you on the- the suit changes Jerrod Carmichael went through- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: ... over the course of the evening. Chloe Malle: Six outfit changes! Chioma Nnadi: I was- Taylor Antrim: It was wild. Chioma Nnadi: It was... He was... I honestly felt that his, maybe his wardrobe redeemed his hosting abilities [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: Oh, we should talk about his hosting abilities. I mean, I thought his speech was amazing. Chioma Nnadi: The opening speech was great, but then it- Taylor Antrim: Right. Chioma Nnadi: ... sort of petered off. Chloe Malle: And when Chioma and I had- Taylor Antrim: Completely agree. Chloe Malle: ... been talking about, wondering how much he was paid. So now we know. Chioma Nnadi: I now. Taylor Antrim: Do we believe that figure though? Chloe Malle: Yeah, he can't say that and not be... that not be true, no? Chioma Nnadi: He's also a comedian, he can say whatever he likes. Taylor Antrim: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Is that true? Okay, maybe. I believe it. Taylor Antrim: But I did think it was a very subversive speech, and Ricky Gervais used to get up there and trash everybody in the audience and that was part of the charge of watching the Golden Globes. You had this like, dangerous opening monologue, you know? And I thought the genius thing about Jerrod was that he like, honored that tradition. But it felt very up to date. It felt like a generational shift on how to unsettle and audience and be really authentic and I thought it was great. The question was like, "Do we need the Golden Globes anymore?" And I thought after watching that, I was like, "Yes!" Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: We should have the Golden Globes every year. Chioma Nnadi: I agree, hand raising, raising my hand. Taylor Antrim: Yes. Chloe Malle: I like it because it's the only one with TV and film and I feel like it's really nice to have both categories together. Especially now that it's so overlapping with streaming. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: Agree, agree, and you know, if you don't- Chloe Malle: W- what do they call it, prestige TV? Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Prestige TV [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: [laughs] Yeah. Chloe Malle: Millennial in the mix [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: [laughs] And if you don't have TV you don't have like, Mike White and Jennifer Coolidge, like- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Taylor Antrim: ... acting out their platonic love affair on the stage. Chioma Nnadi: Aww, yeah. One of my favorite moments. Taylor Antrim: W- that really was charming. And Mike White, like legitimately drunk on stage. Which is the thing you want to see when you tune into the Golden Globes, right? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: Um, I mean I don't know if he w- Chioma Nnadi: He was glassy eyed, it was- Taylor Antrim: [laughs] He was glassy eyed. Chioma Nnadi: ... it was so obvious. Taylor Antrim: [laughs] He said he was gonna give his- his acceptance speech in Italian, but he was too drunk to pull it off. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: That is hilarious. Taylor Antrim: I mean... Chioma Nnadi: I love him. Taylor Antrim: Love him, right? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: And Jennifer Coolidge was great. I mean she got two speeches out of Jennifer Coolidge and the second one was better than the first one. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: No I mean the Golden Globes don't take themselves as seriously as the Oscars and that's what you want out of the Golden Globes. So you have kind of a wacky, weird, slightly unexpected, you know award show. And I feel like, we got some e- elements of that. I mean there are 10 movies that are gonna get Academy Award nominations and from all- Chloe Malle: All right, t- tell us. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, what's it gonna be? Taylor Antrim: Oh, god, I'm not sure I can reel them all off, but I'm not sure- Chloe Malle: Well, Hello Taylor, what're you here for? Chioma Nnadi: Between us we can. Taylor Antrim: Well, I think on the bubble, if we want to talk what's on the bubble like, these really good movies are on the bubble... Woman King, uh, Women Talking, White Noise. I think more- Chloe Malle: Woman King is Viola Davis? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: I saw- I've seen it. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: I've seen it once. Chloe Malle: I haven't. Taylor Antrim: That made a lot of money. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: It made like $300 million. Chloe Malle: So why does that make money and Fablemans doesn't? Taylor Antrim: So this is the question, right? Chloe Malle: Okay. Taylor Antrim: Movies are going through a crisis, because you had a year in which two movies made over $3 billion combined. Those movies are Avatar: The Way of Water and Top Gun: Maverick. Chloe Malle: James Cameron is saying uh, on the red carpet, "Go to the movies, I need you at the movies." Why is he complaining? Taylor Antrim: Because, Avatar makes like $8 million- Chloe Malle: Okay. Taylor Antrim: ... you now, Fablemans makes like $15 million. She said, "D- do you know anyone who's seen that movie?" Chloe Malle: Yes. Taylor Antrim: That's a really good movie. Chioma Nnadi: Great movie. Chloe Malle: Artie's preschool teacher, Jill, loved it. Taylor Antrim: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: I loved it, I thought it was great. Taylor Antrim: I mean, you should know a rhetorical question when you hear one. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: So like, you know, th- the problem is streaming is not gonna support making movies like that. Netflix spent $100 million on White Noise, but they're not gonna keep doing that, you know? And like, who's gonna pony up the money for a movie like Tar if it's only gonna make $8 million in the, in the box office. So my grand theory of the case is that awards season is coming along and has to weigh in on this question of whither or movies, like art or commerce, you know? Are movies all gonna be, you know, big spectacles at the box office, shooting for $1.5 billion, you know? Which they may get or they may not. Or are they gonna be, try to be like real, interesting, creative artistic statements? I mean I love Tar, I love The Banshees of I- Inisherin. Like, this was a pretty good year for art house movies, but no one went to see them. And you're relying on streaming for these movies to get an audience like, there just isn't the like, business model there to support it. And I think that the drama around the Academy Awards is, what side are they gonna weigh in on? Are they gonna give Best Picture to a movie like Top Gun- Chloe Malle: Right. Taylor Antrim: ... or Avatar? And that's always been a tension... I remember back in 2019 Black Panther was nominated for Best Picture and everybody was like, "Is this the year that Marvel"... which is you know, the kind of movie that people really flock to the movie theater to see, "is this the year that Marvel's gonna get like best picture?" And it didn't. I don't remember what won that year, to be honest. But, you know it's always been a tension and I feel like the stakes are just sky high on that question this year. Because the box office, you know, i- it's so variable. It's either like nothing... it's feast or famine, you know? Chioma Nnadi: Where did the audience go for art house movies, why did they just suddenly disappear? Like... Taylor Antrim: Because during Covid, they w- got them all served- Chioma Nnadi: Right, right. Taylor Antrim: ... to them on streaming services. Chioma Nnadi: Right, right. Taylor Antrim: And once you've had a taste of that- Chloe Malle: I am guilty of that. Taylor Antrim: Yeah, I mean my theory is once you get out of the practice of going to a movie theater to see a serious movie like Tar- Chloe Malle: Yeah, yeah. Taylor Antrim: ... you- you don't go back to that. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Taylor Antrim: It's almost like muscle memory, you know? Chioma Nnadi: Right. Taylor Antrim: Um, and- Chioma Nnadi: So you just go to see the big blockbusters? Taylor Antrim: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, that's what I do [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: Exactly! Exactly and that... It's sorta like the imaxification of movies. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, yeah. Taylor Antrim: It's like, I'm gonna go see something that's just gonna like, blow my off, you know? An- and I... I don't know, I mean I went to see Tar in a uh, in a theater. Chloe Malle: You did? That's so cute. Taylor Antrim: Yeah, I mean [laughs]... Chioma Nnadi: Can you see it online yet? Chloe Malle: I haven't seen it. Taylor Antrim: You haven't seen Tar? Chioma Nnadi: I haven't either. Guilty. Taylor Antrim: Come one, Chloe. Chioma Nnadi: Guilty. We've got, we have a few weeks to do it. Chloe Malle: I have two small children, that's three hours. Taylor Antrim: I mean, t- two small children? Anyway w- what I'm saying is- Chloe Malle: You're children sleep through the night. Taylor Antrim: [laughs] What I'm saying is, I saw Tar on a big screen and I staggered out of that theater. I mean if you talk about going to a movie theater and having like a real experience, like Tar works you, you know? It's too long, I think, but it's really like... I mean, I don't know, I go see some of these big sorta spectacle blockbuster movies and I get bored. Like i- it kinda washes over you, like- Chloe Malle: I want... I wish I'd seen Top Gun in theater. Chioma Nnadi: I saw Avatar in the theater and I definitely staggered out for a different reason. Taylor Antrim: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: Oh [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: Thumbs up or thumbs down on Avatar? Chioma Nnadi: I mean, I mean it just kinda washes over you- Taylor Antrim: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... and sometimes like, you just kinda like need that. Chloe Malle: Okay. Taylor Antrim: T- Chioma Nnadi: I mean, too long... Taylor Antrim: So this is what I don't want m- I mean I love movies and I love watching movies- Chioma Nnadi: I w- I think there's room for both. I'm- I can do both. Taylor Antrim: I hope so. Chioma Nnadi: I like to do both. Taylor Antrim: I hope so. Anyway, the Golden Globes uh, landing on Fablemans was like, a vote in like, we need serious movies still in the movie theaters. Let's go, let's- let's encourage people that this is a movie they gotta see. My question is, will the Oscars do the same? Will they be like, "Nope, you know what? The people spoke and Avatar is Best Picture of the Year and that's..." I know, but it could happen. It could happen. Chloe Malle: You think? Taylor Antrim: One point I haven't even... I haven't checked, but like $1.7 billion? Like that's just insane. Insane. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. And it's 3 hours 12 minutes, guys. It's a commitment. Taylor Antrim: And... and you know what the Oscars used to do is, it used to pick like, kind of a middle ground. Like, a populous art house movie. Like- Chloe Malle: Shakespeare in Love. Taylor Antrim: Yes, or like CODA, remember that? Chloe Malle: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: You know. Um- Chloe Malle: Remember that? It was like a year ago [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: Was that last year? It was last year [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Remember way back when... when CODA was a... [laughs] Taylor Antrim: Well yeah, and a streaming movie. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: You know that was one Apple TV+, that wasn't even in movie theaters. So like, they used to choose this middle ground of finding like... Or Green Book, remember that? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Mm. Taylor Antrim: You know they would find like a... like a movie that was popular but still kind of in this prestigey zone. And I wonder if this is the year that that breaks. Chloe Malle: No, we have to talk about Florence Pugh's cover. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, yeah. Chloe Malle: Uh, I just read the story. Chloe Shama, our culture editor, wrote it. It's great. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, it's really great. Chloe Malle: They spent a really fun, multi activity day together. And Florence just seems like someone you would love to spend a day with. She starts by making everyone martinis and then it just goes from there. Chioma Nnadi: I'd love to get drunk with her, yeah. Chloe Malle: Yeah. She was... she was super fun. Taylor Antrim: She's delightful, I mean just like, what- what a star. We're lucky to have her. Chloe Malle: What're her big movies coming out? Why are we focusing on her? Taylor Antrim: Uh, well, she has a film, uh, coming out it's written and directed by her ex, Zach Braff- Chloe Malle: Right. Taylor Antrim: ... called A Good Person, which is coming out in March. Sort of an indie movie. Chloe Malle: Okay. Taylor Antrim: Uh, but she's also in Dune: Part Two- Chloe Malle: Oh. Taylor Antrim: ... which is coming out this year. And Oppenheimer, which is- Chioma Nnadi: Oh. Chloe Malle: What's Oppenheimer? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: So Oppenheimer is the big Christopher Nolan movie that's coming out this year. Chloe Malle: Oh! Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: And uh, and so she has two like really big-budget, big swings like, box office plays um, that are coming. Uh, but this indie movie was the peg for the- the cover story. Chloe Malle: Uh, Chioma what else are you thinking about this week? Chioma Nnadi: I was very sad to hear about the news about Tatjana Patitz. Chloe Malle: I know, I was really sad I... She was the... one of the iconic big five um, supermodels- Chioma Nnadi: Y- you interviewed her? Chloe Malle: ... of the 90s. Chioma Nnadi: You interviewed her? Chloe Malle: I interviewed her ten years ago, it was a piece on models at home with their families. She was a single movie to her then 8 year old son, Jonah. She had moved to an amazing ranch in Santa Ynez, California. And it was just this very picturesque and storybook life. Of her son would bike to his Montessori school and then she would ride her horses and take care of the animals all day. And she was just very much, just sort of, mother of the earth kind of... Uh, shooed the- the high glamour lifestyle. We got the news... Vogue.com broke the news that she passed away at 56. Chioma Nnadi: So sad. I mean... 'Cause I think she was one of the lesser known supermodels. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Which photographers would you say she worked with- Chloe Malle: Well she was a famously... She was in the Peter Lindbergh shoot um, in Dumbo... Sort of at the Brooklyn Bridge behind her- Chioma Nnadi: Hmm. Chloe Malle: ... She was in the George Michael "Freedom" music video, I- Chioma Nnadi: Pretty sure she was, yeah. Chloe Malle: Um... We're very sad about that. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: I was sort of impressed that Louis Vuitton and Yayoi Kusama could manage to pull off another collaboration that had everyone talking and [inaudible 00:13:46]. Chioma Nnadi: I know! I think it was... I mean, really kudos to them for completely reinventing the launch of a collab. I mean she- Chloe Malle: Taylor, have you seen this? It's polka dots... Just painted polka dots all over- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah the- the entire sort of, L-Louis Vuitton- Chloe Malle: Well, I took my son, Artie, today on- Chioma Nnadi: Really? To see- Chloe Malle: ... our way to school to see the store and there's a robot of Kusama in the window that is so lifelike it is eerie. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Her cheeks move. Like her buccal fat is rippling. Taylor Antrim: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: It's wild. Her eyes are flap... I- it was... We had to leave, it was weird. Um, but yeah, I mean who would have thought that this... you know sticking dots on a bag again? I'm like, "Okay, yeah, I'm sold." It's- it's- it's for a reason- Chioma Nnadi: It's a [inaudible 00:14:29]. Yeah. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: I mean Louis Vuitton had other big news this week too. Um, KidSuper who is part of the f- uh, CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund- Chloe Malle: I've never heard of this person. Chioma Nnadi: Well, what... He's a name to watch. So- Chloe Malle: Okay, but is he a designer, is he? Chioma Nnadi: He's a designer. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: He's a New York based designer, Brooklyn based designer. He's really fantastic ideas and he's known for his kind of out of the box shows and concerts. Chloe Malle: Does he have a real name? Chioma Nnadi: Something like Colin... Chloe Malle: Okay, if he replacing Virgil? Chioma Nnadi: No, he's doing a guest... he's doing a guest collection. Obviously that's big shoes to fill, so I think it's kind of wise that they went this route. But, you know, great that they gave it to an American designer. Young and kind of like maverick, in the same way that Virgil was very, kind of... you know, he just always thought outside of the box. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: So it'll be interesting to see what he does with the- Chloe Malle: Is it just for men? Chioma Nnadi: Just for men. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: All right, who is reading Spare? Taylor Antrim: Oh, definitely not. Chioma Nnadi: No, but I've heard it's really fun read. Taylor Antrim: H- Chloe Malle: I am. I'm listening to it, I'm two hours in. I almost missed my subway stop- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: ... hearing about he's getting into Camilla. I'm so... I'm totally there for it. Taylor Antrim: Is it good? Chloe Malle: Ish. It's good-ish. Taylor Antrim: Yeah. Chloe Malle: I mean I'm a big J. R. Moehringer fan. I think he's like a great ghostwriter. He did Andre Agassi and uh- Taylor Antrim: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... Phil Knight's Shoe Dog and uh, I- I'm- I think it's good. I am very excited to hear about his frost bitten penis. I feel like that's like the most- Chioma Nnadi: I can't believe you said that. Taylor Antrim: I have not actually heard about this, tell us more. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Wait, seriously. What is wrong with you? Chioma Nnadi: You've not heard about this before? Taylor Antrim: Listen, I read the aggregated... Like I'm not gonna actually read Spare. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: So of course, I do read the like [inaudible 00:16:05]. Chloe Malle: This was every headline! Chioma Nnadi: It was everywhere. Taylor Antrim: And- and... Th- Chioma Nnadi: This was everywhere. Chloe Malle: He said on Colbert on Tuesday- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: ... he said, "My uh," [laughs]- Taylor Antrim: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: ... "My fr- frost nip on my todger." Taylor Antrim: Well, okay [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: One more time Chloe Malle, please. Chloe Malle: Frost nip on his todger! Taylor Antrim: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: Can we... can we get that embroidered on a t-shirt? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Well actually, speaking of embroidery... He said that the last time he went to a cold climate a lady friend got him a cock cushion to protect his todger, and this time he didn't have that. And that's why it got nipped and actually, I've had a similar situation with my dog, Lloyd, when it's really cold- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: ... he's gotten like, ice stuck stuck on his fur on his penis and I've just had to like, wipe it off with a warm washcloth [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Chloe... Stop right there. Taylor Antrim: My question is, did the Daily Mail translate that passage from the original Spanish? I mean, it was a crazy media moment. It was like the Daily Mail has their hands on the Spanish edition of Spare. It was r- Chloe Malle: Apparently it was a big upset because the Guardian got the English, so they had a huge time leg up. Taylor Antrim: Imagine the rivalry between the Guardian and the Daily Mail? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: Can you believe that it's already in- in Susie Manker's uh, post on Instagram that it's already half priced at the airport. Chloe Malle: No way! Taylor Antrim: No, I heard... I heard it's selling gangbusters. Chloe Malle: Of course it is! Chioma Nnadi: Why would they put it 50% off. Explain that to me? Chloe Malle: Well, I don't know. But... Taylor Antrim: Oh, I think that's just how they sell books at the airport [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, real- Taylor Antrim: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Okay. Chloe Malle: That's not possible. But I did see a picture of a window of a bookstore in Piccadilly that had it in the window display as Spare next to another book called How to Kill Your Family. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, perfect. I love that. That's- Chloe Malle: And then they just had all of those there so we know what the UK general feeling is- Chioma Nnadi: British humor, we love it. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Actually a friend sent me um, kind of a picture of the newsstand the day after. And it was just, it was just like a wall of Harry content. Chloe Malle: Yeah, of course! Chioma Nnadi: It was just- just complete takeover. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Taylor Antrim: I wanna know per capita if the book is selling better in the UK or the US? Chioma Nnadi: Hmm... Taylor Antrim: Like, I think that the, you know there's m- more of an audience for this book frankly in the US. Chloe Malle: You think? Taylor Antrim: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Still? Taylor Antrim: Yeah. Chloe Malle: I don't think that's true. I think it's equal. I... or I don't know. I don't know every bookstore in the US has it p- plastered across the whole wall of the bookstore- Taylor Antrim: Chloe, need I point out that we have an English person here- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: ... an American person here and only the American person is listening to Spare. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Taylor Antrim: Not reading- Chloe Malle: Chioma's busy, okay? [laughs]. Taylor, officially the uh, deputy editor of Vogue. What a treat. Taylor Antrim: Thank you for having me. It was a lot of fun. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Chioma, Jessie Buckley is one of my favorite actors of the moment. She's also sort of, I feel like this stealth darling of Vogue and has been for awhile, don't you feel that way? Chioma Nnadi: Oh yeah, we're all fan girls for Jessie. Chloe Malle: Yeah. I first fell in love with her in the movie Wild Rose, where she plays this Scottish ex-con trying to make it big on the Nashville country music scene. Uh, and then there's obviously last year's The Lost Daughter was her big, I feel like US film breakthrough. Chioma Nnadi: Th- that's when I really discovered her to be honest. I'm a late... I'm a late- Chloe Malle: A late Buckley bloomer? Chioma Nnadi: I'm a late Buckley bloomer. Chloe Malle: Maggie Gyllenhaal's uh, directorial debut, The Lost Daughter. It was um, this very raw, frank film about maternal ambivalence and Jessie Buckley plays this young mother grappling with very tough choices. And she got an Oscar nomination for it. And she's just so good in it and... There's something so crackling and... delectable about all of her performances. Chioma Nnadi: Mm, I mean that movie, The Lost Daughter, is one of my favorites of hers- Chloe Malle: Really? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: Well, now she's getting all sorts of attention again for Sarah Polley's film, Women Talking. Um, it's also a very intense film. It's about rape in a Mennonite community. Jessie plays Mariche, a Mennonite woman in an abusive relationship, who is brimming with fire and rage, rightly so. But it makes for a very powerful performance. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I mean the film is you know, it's- it's serious, it's super intense. But what I love about her is that she brings this irreverence to the way she dresses and I find that really appealing. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: You know? I mean she walked in with that wonderful outfit in this, kinda of very avant garde, punky, leather ensemble that had these, you know, big, ballooning sleeves and vest that was r- real kind of sheath that was- was leather and then leather trousers. So she- she has fun with it. And when we met her this week, we jumped right into talking about how she's always experimenting with her hair. Chloe Malle: She always has great blunt chop. Chioma Nnadi: She really does. Jessie Buckley: Hair is always um...[inaudible 00:20:55] Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, you're always experimenting with different colors and... Jessie Buckley: Yeah, I kinda, to be honest like, I- I find hair quite hard work [laughs]. I'd like to be l- I'd like to shave it off. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: I just watched that Sinead O'Connor documentary, have you seen it? Chioma Nnadi: Oh! Chloe Malle: No. Chioma Nnadi: I've heard it's so good, I'm dying to watch it. Jessie Buckley: She's just the coolest. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Jessie Buckley: When I was growing up in Ireland, we were told that she was like... you know, be careful of her, you know... But actually, she was so ahead of her time- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Jessie Buckley: I mean shave her... She's just so beautiful and cool- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Jessie Buckley: ... and so anyway, maybe I'll shave my hair off soon. Chioma Nnadi: You've got... You could [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: You have a face that you can carry it. I've always loved w- liked the idea of it, but I just feel like too naked. Chloe Malle: That's a tough... Jessie Buckley: I need... I need hair just to distract from everything else [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, but you're beautiful, [inaudible 00:21:38]. We could all do it. It would be like Vivian Westwood... which is very sad. Chloe Malle: Oh, I know. Jessie Buckley: I know. Chioma Nnadi: I thought... Yeah, we were talking about how last week... She's just... She was, I mean... Chloe Malle: It was a real moment for Chioma. Chioma Nnadi: Oh yeah. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I just think that that- that- Chloe Malle: Have you ever worn any of her clothes? Jessie Buckley: Yeah, yeah I wore um, something of hers recently and to the London Film Festival. Chioma Nnadi: Was it the- the striped- Jessie Buckley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was so good- Chioma Nnadi: It was like a corset kind of- Chloe Malle: Amazing. Jessie Buckley: ... harlequin dress. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Jessie Buckley: And I loved it. And actually it was like such... 'cause I came in and I was like, "I'm just gonna have so much fun this year." Like, and especially with Women Talking, cause Mariche's quite like hard work. I was like, I'm just gonna be the opposite. I'm just gonna like- Chloe Malle: That was like such a good way to go. Jessie Buckley: ... color and fun and I l- every time we get to meet up with all the you know, girls on the red carpet, we all just kind of laugh. Chloe Malle: Do you coordinate? Jessie Buckley: N- um... I don't know, a few times we've been like, "We're wearing black, we're all wearing black." Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: And then the black doesn't look very nice and I'm like in some kind of clown, harlequin, colorful dress. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: I feel like that would be uncomfortable. If uh, you and Claire showed up at an awards show both in like a fuchsia. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: [laughs] maybe we should try it and see? Chloe Malle: [laughs] Yeah, exactly. Do you have a long like, award season... sort of, marathon? Jessie Buckley: I've no idea. Last year when I w- uh, Oscar and um, BAFTA I was doing Cabaret in the west end, so I- I- Chloe Malle: You m- yeah. Jessie Buckley: Missed it all. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Oh, right. Jessie Buckley: So this is my first kind of, I guess time, kinda going around with it and- Chloe Malle: Well like, did you get to come for the Oscars last year? Jessie Buckley: Oh yeah, I just came for the Oscars and I came with my boyfriend and we were like, "Let's just have a party." [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Jessie Buckley: And we were with Oliva Colman and her husband Ed and we um, w- we're all quite close. So we just... we actually ended up making friends with the guy in the lift of the osc- we- we missed the moment. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: W- we made friends with the guy in the lift. Chloe Malle: Wait, what moment did you miss? Jessie Buckley: The Will Smith moment- Chloe Malle: Oh, my god. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, the moment... of course. I would have wanted to be there. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: Well we made friends with the guy in the lift. And we... Our task for the night was to give him margaritas. So we kept requesting this one guy in the lift and we were like- Chioma Nnadi: Lift is elevator everyone, just- Jessie Buckley: Oh, right, right, sorry, sorry, sorry. Chloe Malle: Chioma's our translator. Jessie Buckley: I'm sorry, I've just... I've had to do this so many years. Chioma Nnadi: It wasn't an Uber [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: Oh, r- right [laughs]. Um, so when we came back into the room everyone was like, "Can you believe it?" We were like, "What? What? Do you know that we've been giving this guy margaritas in the lift... in the elevator?" [laughs] Um, and also we went to Madonna's after party. And me and my boyfriend were like, "This is really crazy." [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Who did you chat with at the after party? Jessie Buckley: We were with Ed and Olivia, so we kind of had a little corner and at one point we'd all went dancing and we were like having a great, great time. And then it was about 1AM and I was like, "I really just want a plate of pasta." So I like went in and I got a plate of pasta and I plant myself down on a step and I had a beer. And then one of Olivia's makeup artist's, she was like, "Thank God you're eating pasta." And she like went in and got a plate of pasta too. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: It was just like, having a chat about life and like where we were going on holidays and... But also, we were like, "Oh my God, is Leonardo DiCaprio's behind us?" [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: What are you excited to wear this awards season? Is there like one... like you're just gonna go totally anti-Mariche? Jessie Buckley: [laughs] No, not anti... I love her, I feel very protective of her. Chloe Malle: I did notice in the movie that it's like there's a designer that Chioma and I love, Batsheva and- Jessie Buckley: [inaudible 00:25:23] Chloe Malle: ... sort of Mennonite cloth- Jessie Buckley: I love Batsheva. Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:25:27] Jessie Buckley: We love her too Chloe Malle: ... the whole movie is uh... Jessie Buckley: Actually, when I turned 30 I bought like a batch of her... like white dress- Chioma Nnadi: Did you? Jessie Buckley: And um, I- w- yeah, it's my birthday dress. And if I ever get married I've decided I'm gonna wear it and I'm gonna get al- everybody to... I think she did it in like one of her shows where she sent it around and got everybody to write messages of love on like- Chloe Malle: Oh! Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Jessie Buckley: ... this white dress [inaudible 00:25:48]. Um, yeah, maybe socks and sandals, you know keep- keep it real. Chioma Nnadi: It sounds like you- your really in- into fashion. It's not something that you have to back into in your job. Jessie Buckley: I don't know. I- I- I- I'm like, I'm getting into it more and like- Chioma Nnadi: 'Cause she's wearing a really great outfit right now. Jessie Buckley: Yeah? Chloe Malle: Yes. Jessie Buckley: If you can c- if you can describe it please and give us a credit. Chloe Malle: Y- tell us about this. Jessie Buckley: I- I think it's like a kind of 1920s Joan of Arc- Chioma Nnadi: Yes! Chloe Malle: Oh! Jessie Buckley: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Good description. Girl you need to be like... You need to write fashion reviews for us [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: Um, it's Issey Miyake I think. Chioma Nnadi: It's cool. Jessie Buckley: Yeah, I love. I have people that I really enjoyed wearing like uh, Schiaparelli and Rodem and... With fashion and clothes I feel like... I've felt like I want to wear different things at different points in my life, depending on where I am with myself and kind of um, finding the confidence to own that. Whatever that is. And sometimes you get it completely wrong and sometimes you get it right. But I guess you learn every time you do it. And it's such an art. Looking at you know, Schiaparelli- Chioma Nnadi: I know, I mean the coutures. Jessie Buckley: ... like, it's just like... it's like surrealism and I- I love all that stuff. Like when you see an art behind something and you might be able to create something with that and then have a kind of character with it is- is fun. Chloe Malle: They say that you wear 20% of your clothes 80% of the time. Jessie Buckley: Yeah? Chloe Malle: Do you... What's your like number one thing that you're wearing over and over right now? Jessie Buckley: Tracksuit pants. Chloe Malle: Oh! From who? Jessie Buckley: [laughs] Um, I have no idea. Like, American Vintage or something like that. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: Like, I'm such... I think the only time I've ever met Anna was after Cabaret and I was like... Usually after Cabaret in London I would just hop on my bike and cycle home as quickly as possible- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: ... to like... and I came out in like tracksuit pants and a like oversized t-shirt and trainers. So I was like, "Hi, uh, I'm gonna go." [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Jessie Buckley: On my bike... Where I belong. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] I know, I feel like you will sometimes find photos or paintings that you love and make t-shirts into them. Jessie Buckley: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love doing that [inaudible 00:27:50]. Chloe Malle: What's the last t-shirt you made? Jessie Buckley: Uh, I got a picture of Lee Miller in Hitler's bath, I just- Chloe Malle: Oh my god, incredible. Jessie Buckley: Gosh and print it on... I know, she looks so amazing. And printed that on her... Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: And then when I was doing Cabaret there's this amazing performance artist called Valeska Gert- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Jessie Buckley: ... Who is this like, punk in the 1920s and she would do these like, radical things. And like, stand up in front of a cinema and her protest would be silence and she would just do this weird little dance. And I have a picture of her kind of doing this weird dance on h- a t-shirt. Chloe Malle: Wow! Jessie Buckley: But I love making... It's great, I- I love... Yeah. Chloe Malle: Is there like one website you use? Jessie Buckley: Yeah. I'm not selling them quite... [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Jessie Buckley: These are one off JB t-shirts. Chioma Nnadi: Like a [inaudible 00:28:32]. Jessie Buckley: Yeah, yeah [laughs]. Good initials for a fashion line, J.B. Chioma Nnadi: J.B. Jessie Buckley: Yeah. Chloe Malle: J.B. Exclusive [laughs]. I loved watching Jessie in Women Talking. I actually watched it with my family on Christmas night which was uh, heavy. But it's based on a novel by Miriam Toews which is inspired by a true story of over 100 women that were raped in a me- in a Mennonite community in Bolivia in 2011. And much of the film takes place almost like a play in this one room, which is a hayloft where a quorum of the women in this community come together to debate their options. Do they stay and fight their abusers or pack up and leave the only life they've ever known? I mean honestly, we should've watched Elf... but [laughs] I- I'm kidding. Eh, but... despite being a heavy subject matter, there's a light touch to the way Sarah Polley has directed it and the way that these women come together to do these performances that- that makes it very watchable. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I mean you watched it before me and- and- and told me about the film and I felt that you know, maybe I was walking into something a little heavy for the beginning of the year. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: But it was actually... It's been amazing to watch the cast as they do press for the film um, too. You know, it felt like the really bonded and not just Jessie Buckley, but Rooney Mara, Claire Foy, Ben Whishaw, Frances McDormand. Chloe Malle: It's- it's not a... it's not a cast of- of wallflowers, I mean these are- Chioma Nnadi: No. Chloe Malle: ... This is a power packed cast. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. And- and they see to all have fun with each other too. It seemed like they- they became a family. Jessie Buckley: They're all just the most extraordinary people and actors and Sarah Polley, the director, who's just the most extraordinary woman. She just create an environment where we are all able to take a risk and not just act, but genuinely experience in real time and change each others minds in real time. Chloe Malle: Wow. Jessie Buckley: And she did that by creating a place of utmost trust and support and she had like an onset therapist there and she had a- Chloe Malle: I know, I could believe that. I've never heard of that before and that's such a great idea- Chioma Nnadi: How does that work? Yeah, how does that work? Jessie Buckley: Well I guess... you know the material is quite intense and we had young actresses that had never worked before. And we had crew members who'd, you know, been effected by some of the themes in the film before. And you know, it seems like a pretty practical thing to do actually- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Jessie Buckley: ... And quite a like, important, caring thing to do. And Dede Gardner, who's like our trailblazing producer, said, "You know, we'll put it in the budget, we're gonna make it work." That's- Chloe Malle: And did you make use of the therapist? Jessie Buckley: I did. Being like honest, initially I was like, "You can stand far away from me." [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: "Do not come anywhere." I know exactly, you know... And then there was a moment, like where I at the end and... I'm not somebody who takes it home, like I'm like, you know when you come back from the hayloft we all would kind of go into the greenroom and we'd talk about what we're gonna have for dinner and you know where we wanted... You know, just like, normal things. And there was such a respect to know that actually what we had to do in the loft was intense and important. And actually, we needed to come back and chill out. But at one point at the end, I kinda didn't really realize that actually... Mariche was just... She was just like, quite full on. To kinda carry around. Chioma Nnadi: Oof. Jessie Buckley: And it was like a kinda point of... I think there was a point where were about to leave, you know, make the decision to leave. And I just kinda spun out a bit, and had a big old cry and [laughs] called her, and she was great. And she's such an extraordinary woman. Her name's Dr. Lori Haskell. She's um, she's just been given the Order of Canada for her work that she's been doing for trauma and- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow! Jessie Buckley: Um, you know, um, domestic abuse survivors and um... She- she was so useful in lots of ways. You know, to kind of talk to her about that and um... Chloe Malle: That's so smart of Sarah and Dede to do that. Jessie Buckley: I've learned so much from Sarah. But like, as a leader, to have somebody who leads from such a kind of powerful vulnerability. And who has such intense curiosity about everybody on set. You know, she would not only you know, ask us as actors what we felt about a scene, but she involved the whole crew and everybody's point of view was valid. And I think that was what was interesting about this experience was she was able to contain these heightened perspectives and have a real time genuine- genuine debate. And allow each other to affect each other from these kind of points of view. Um, so that we could all kind of move forward and kind of, remove layers of skin and unlearn things, that we could collectively learn something new... and have courage to move somewhere new that we didn't really... You know, it wasn't like they were kind of going off into the sunset to some Utopia- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Jessie Buckley: ... It takes huge bravery to do what these- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Jessie Buckley: ... women are doing. And to find a new language for themselves- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Jessie Buckley: ... with that bravery as well. And having, you know, Sarah, Fran and Dede being the leaders of that home, it definitely uh, was helped and [inaudible 00:33:51]. Chloe Malle: Frances McDormand who is a producer- Jessie Buckley: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... and in the movie. Jessie Buckley: Yeah, yeah. Chloe Malle: Amazing. What would you guys do in the evening? I just... I remember you and I spoke on the phone briefly last year about The Lost Daughter, I was doing a piece on Maggie. And I love hearing about how much fun you guys were having afterward. You said you were singing and you and Olivia were drinking rose into the wee hours- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Was there anything like that on this set? I- it- it feels like a different vibe maybe? But... Jessie Buckley: Yes, there... well, yes... [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: Um, yeah we do. You know where we kind of have nights where we'd all come over to mine and I'd order loads of pizzas and we'd go and have margaritas and go and kind of- Chloe Malle: Was there sing-a-longs again? Jessie Buckley: No sing-a-longs this time. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: No, there wasn't kind of a- a that air of singing. Chloe Malle: And I love that you said that it's usually the quiet ones who are the naughtiest that- Jessie Buckley: Oh yeah. Chloe Malle: ... Ben and Rooney were... surprised you. Jessie Buckley: Oh yeah, always. Yes. Especially Rooney, brilliantly... You know I- I- I guess because something that was really important to Sarah and Miriam Toews, who wrote the novel, was that these women laughed, you know? Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Jessie Buckley: There was like... people k- who kinda hurt the hardest, laugh the loudest and that they use laughter and have laughter so much in their lives. And um, Rooney one day basically brought in a fart machine and- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Oh my God. Jessie Buckley: It was- Chloe Malle: To the hayloft? Jessie Buckley: Oh yeah. Chioma Nnadi: She doesn't... It doesn't seem like her vibe, a fart machine, I'd have to say. Jessie Buckley: Oh... Chioma Nnadi: Really? She has that? Chloe Malle: [laughs] Rooney's so- Jessie Buckley: She's such a little like, naughty twinkle. She's so twinkly. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. That's good to hear. Jessie Buckley: Don't be fooled, don't be fooled. That's what happened to us and then it- this kind of sound erupted and we were like, "Oh my god who's that?" Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: Yeah, we were all looking around like, sheepishly... not sheepishly, like kind of, um... And it was Rooney, she planted. Chioma Nnadi: Wow! I would have never pegged her as that- the prankster on set. Chloe Malle: [laughs] I love it. Chioma Nnadi: W- What was your role on set? Like who were you as far as like, I mean... Jessie Buckley: Miserable [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: I don't know, I like to you know, you keep it light kind of until you have to go because it's to intense otherwise. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Jessie Buckley: It's just too much. Chloe Malle: So in 2022 Jessie starred in the horror film Men, in which she's affronted by these various ghosts of sort of toxic male archetypes. Like uh, Me Too to A Christmas Carol. And in a way the film sets up as an interesting juxtaposition against Women Talking because Men feels like this very... heavy dose of toxic masculinity. Whereas Women Talking is pretty much all women on the screen all the time and it was of- a totally women lead set. So it's interesting to talk to her about those two experiences back to back. Uh, on the lighter side, kind of, but equally exhausting. She played Sally Bowles, to great acclaim, in Cabaret on London's West End. And she I think went into Cabaret the week after finishing filming Women Talking, so- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: ... by the end of this past year I think she was just exhausted. Chioma Nnadi: I'm exhausted hearing it. Chloe Malle: [laughs] I know. Jessie Buckley: [laughs] At Christmas I was like, "Phew, I feel like I've been hit with a train." [laughs] If I had like one of those things it woulda been... But sometimes like there's just like, flow you know- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Jessie Buckley: You're just like... And a lot of those projects, I always feel like these, sometimes these things come in kind of pairs. Or there's just something in the air, there's certain stories that meet you at certain points in your life and you kinda roll with it. And um, Cabaret was such an amazing experience. Chloe Malle: Do you miss doing theater? Are you gonna go back soon, you think? Jessie Buckley: I always miss doing theater, yeah. It's like the best feeling in the world. To kind of... I- I started in the theater and kind of... you know having that intimacy with audience and in Cabaret you know, we were in the round, so we could just see peoples faces- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Jessie Buckley: ... and see peoples eyes and um, every night you're terrified and you kind of get that rush and... Like, Sally was such a kind of firecracker, you know, really you got on that train at the beginning of the night and then you came off and you came off and you're like, "I have no idea what just happened." [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Jessie Buckley: Um, but it was great, it was great to kind of be back and doing that again, yeah. Chloe Malle: What are you... And then you... I read that you trained with Fusetti, a clown master last summer? Jessie Buckley: Yeah. Chloe Malle: What inspired that? Jessie Buckley: I think a few years ago a friend of mine told me to watch this film called La Strada. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Jessie Buckley: Um, by, um, Fellini. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Jessie Buckley: And his wife, Giulietta Masina, is one of my favorite actresses. She's like this little punchy firecracker. And um, it's just the most beautiful film. And I think clowning as an art form has kind of been forgotten in our world. Like before it used to be integral to society to kind of politics even, you know like in- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm, yeah. Jessie Buckley: ... King Lear the fool was the person who kind of exposes the wounds within society. And it's all about failure. And I find the beauty within failure clowning, and it's unlike any kind of performance work that I've done. Because it relies primarily on an audience. Like as a three way relationship and these balls are constantly dropping and the purpose of the clown is to catch the ball that's fallen and to find something beautiful with that and with that audience and- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Jessie Buckley: Um, yeah, I loved it. Also, female clowns like, you never see them- Chloe Malle: That's true you don't think of a lot of female clowns. Jessie Buckley: And actually, I think like, we wear makeup all the time and we're just like on the cusp of basically looking like clowns sometimes [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: So I was like, let's go further with this. Chioma Nnadi: Well there was no makeup on the set of... Is it true that there was no makeup? Chloe Malle: On Women Talking, I couldn't believe that. Jessie Buckley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all had no makeup, we all had hairy legs. Chloe Malle: Wow! Chioma Nnadi: Wow! Really lived it. Jessie Buckley: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Chloe Malle: What about underarms? Jessie Buckley: Yeah, why not? [laughs]. Chloe Malle: What are you reading, watching, listening to right now? Jessie Buckley: I read four great books when I was doing fingernails. Chloe Malle: Okay. Jessie Buckley: Both of Esther Perel's books. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Okay. Jessie Buckley: Mating in Captivity and um, A State of Affairs, which was- Chioma Nnadi: Which one should I read? Both? N- neither? Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: It depends where you are in your life [laughs]... what you're looking for. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: If you want basically to have an affair and it be okay, read State of Affairs. Chioma Nnadi: I think I'll go with the other one [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: But they're both brilliant. Actually, they're super interesting because it kind of blows the lid on the taboos of things like in- within relationships- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Jessie Buckley: ... which are still taboos, you know? And actually are so common in our kind of world. And then I read this book called Vladimir by Julia May Jonas. Chloe Malle: Mkay. Jessie Buckley: Which was qu- quite sexy. And then I read this amazing book which blew my mind and I've been giving it to all my girlfriends called Cassandra Speaks by Elizabeth Lesser and- Chloe Malle: Hmm. Jessie Buckley: ... Fran McDormand told me about it and I got it. Whenever I buy way too many books. I like when everybody... somebody tells me to read a book I'm like, "Bought it." Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: And then like three kind of books arrive home that are like, bad feminist hunger [laughs]. Like all these things... Fred, my partner, is like, "Chill, Jess." Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Jessie Buckley: "Really, like chill Christmas [inaudible 00:41:20]." [laughs]. Um, but ah, Cassandra Speaks is extraordinary. And it's about um, reclaiming you know, the origin stories which we've always u- understood about ourselves as women- Chioma Nnadi: Hmm. Jessie Buckley: ... and actually h- are they ours in the first place? And actually how we... actually, now is our time to make our own origin stories. Chloe Malle: Well that's sort of Lost Daughter and Women Talking. Jessie Buckley: Yeah, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Well, Jessie, thank you so, so much. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, thank you for coming. This was great. Jessie Buckley: [laughs] Thanks for having me. Chioma Nnadi: Loved Jessie. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Wanna go shopping with Jessie. Chloe Malle: I know, totally [laughs]. Yeah, I, well I wanna h- have Jessie make me one of her t-shirts. Chioma Nnadi: I know. Chloe Malle: That- that's the real... That's the real get. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: And frankly what I actually want is to uh, be in Jessie and Frances McDormand's book club- Chioma Nnadi: Oh. Chloe Malle: ... oh my God- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... I mean talk about Women Talking, that's the dream. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. This is the outro, right? Chloe Malle: Uh, I think this is the outro, yeah. Sorry. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] The Run-Through with Vogue is a production of Conde Nast Entertainment. Make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you liked the show, please rate and review it. Chloe Malle: We want to hear from you. Send us a hello or any questions, thoughts, anything about the show to therunthrough@vogue.com. Chioma Nnadi: I'm Chioma Nnadi. Chloe Malle: And I'm Chloe Malle. Bye. Chioma Nnadi: Bye.