Chloe Malle: Welcome to The Run Through with Vogue. I'm Chloe Malle. Chioma Nnadi: And I'm Chioma Nnadi. Chloe Malle: We are exactly one week away from Thanksgiving, and as many of us pack up to go spend time with our families, for better or for worse, we have a very moving family story to share with you today. Chioma Nnadi: But first, our favorite headlines this week. Chloe Malle: So I spent all weekend watching The Crown, which the new- Chioma Nnadi: Such a slog. Chloe Malle: ... yeah, it's season five. It's the early '90s. It's when the monarchy sort of is having one of its darkest moments, and it feels like a, a long grind through a rainy day. But- Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Chloe Malle: ... I'm there. I'm, I'm there for it, and I'm, I'm doing the work. And I feel like it's worthwhile. I mean, I would say spoiler alert, but you should know your history, so I- Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Chloe Malle: ... don't care. Um, we really are watching the downfall of multiple marriages, most notably Prince Charles and Princess Diana. I also, I know that Michele Ruiz did a very good piece about [inaudible 00:01:01].com, and it's like, Dominic West is too handsome to play Prince Charles. And I think it- Chioma Nnadi: Way too hot. Chloe Malle: ... got a lot of traffic, because we are not the only ones who think this. And it's true. I feel like Josh O'Connor was so good at it, and having this sort of uncomfortable Eeyore-ness of Prince Charles, and Dominic West is just, has, he's too much swagger. Chioma Nnadi: Way too much swagger, way too much charm, just way too much of everything [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [Laughs] Chioma Nnadi: So yeah, they needed, they needed a different casting. I thought Elizabeth Debicki was kind of perfect, I mean, watching her in that revenge dress, and that was incredible. Chloe Malle: Wait, I'm not there yet. Chioma Nnadi: You're not there yet? Chloe Malle: No, I'm only four in. Chioma Nnadi: I'm so sorry. Okay, well, we'll- Chloe Malle: [Laughs] Chioma Nnadi: ... let's backtrack. I will say that my favorite episode so far has been the episode, like, that goes into Mohamed Fayed's history. Chloe Malle: Oh, I just watched that. The Crown has done this, like, maybe once or twice a season every season, where they do this sort of mini self-contained narrative in a single episode, and it's always... I think Peter Morgan is so smart at that. Because if you think about just the, the breadth of the stories that could be told around this subject, the choice of what to include and what not to include is the most important thing that Peter Morgan's doing. So I thought that that was a really unexpected, thoughtful, and, and very engaging way to dive into that. Chioma Nnadi: Which I thought was, was really fascinating- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... and stood as an episode that you could watch by itself- Chloe Malle: Totally. Chioma Nnadi: ... and not have to watch- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... the other dreary content [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [Laughs] I know. I was so happy to be, like, moved to Egypt. I was like, oh, thank God. Chioma Nnadi: I know. Just something else. Chloe Malle: Get me out of Scotland. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, get me out of Balmoral, please. Like, help. Chloe Malle: [Laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Chloe Malle: Well, you know who won't be watching The Crown this weekend is David Beckham, because he will be- Chioma Nnadi: No. Chloe Malle: ... at the World Cup- Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: ... in Qatar, which is of great debate and derision, because Qatar has a abominable record on humans rights, workers' rights, gay rights, and many people are boycotting the World Cup, furious at people who are not doing so. It's caused quite a lot of controversy for FIFA, the, uh, football, the International Football Federation. Is that what it stands for? Chioma Nnadi: Uh, hearing that his status as a gay icon is about to be shredded, that was- Chloe Malle: [Laughs] Chioma Nnadi: ... that was, that was the word from CNN. Chloe Malle: I mean, I do feel like that's, like, a very, uh, fashion media take on the World Cup. Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Chloe Malle: Like, my husband is a huge soccer fan. He's like, what are you talking about? No one cares about David Beckham. He's not even playing, and I was like, we care. Chioma Nnadi: He's officially an ambassador of the Qatar World Cup. I mean, it's, it's not nothing. Chloe Malle: I know, but if he's not on the field, there's an argument that we don't really care. Chioma Nnadi: Right. I mean, I've heard some players are going to, um, kind of make a statement by wearing, you know, rainbow-colored a-, arm bands. Well, it, I mean, let's be fair. And I think the fashion world isn't off the hook for this, either. I mean, there was a huge event a couple of weeks ago in, in Qatar. It was called Qatar Creates, I think, and, you know, there was this big opening at the Museum of Islamic Art. And a bunch of fashion people were there, you know. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Editors, stylists, models. Chloe Malle: I mean, I opened my Instagram, and it was just the desert for days. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: And I was like, what is happening? These people are usually at a dinner at Bergdorf's. Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Chloe Malle: Frankly, I was shocked that, uh, Mayor Adams wasn't there [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] So this week was basically the auction of the century. It was the intersection of fashion, and literally people, you know, Joan Didion's estate. Chloe Malle: Personal artifacts. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, personal a-, artifacts, um, were auctioned off. And it was, you know, eye-opening to see some of the things that sold, and how much they sold for. For example, you know, everyone is talking about those Celine glasses, and they sold for $27,000. Chloe Malle: This is- Chioma Nnadi: There were the Tega ones, but they did not sell as much. Chloe Malle: ... a-, a-, it's- Chioma Nnadi: But she's known for those Celine ones. Chloe Malle: ... it's really horrifying, because there has been sort of this distillation of Joan Didion in the Instagram culture, where she's just sort of been boiled down into this, uh, signifier of, of chic and sort of, uh, restraint, and resolve, and I feel like people who are Instagramming their recent purchases from the Rose Sample sale are also Instagramming, like, their 1980 copy of The White Album. Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Chloe Malle: So there's sort of this unfortunate, uh, evolution of Joan Didion's, uh, reputation, and in a way, this sale kind of solidified that. And the fact that the Celine sunglasses that she wore in the 2015 ad, uh, which are probably cost $350, that they sold for 27,000- Chioma Nnadi: Right, bucks. Chloe Malle: ... something that you're gonna, like, lose on the beach. Chioma Nnadi: But just to put this into context, Steve Jobs's really, like, crumbled-looking Birkenstocks sold for over $200,000 this week on auction. Chloe Malle: Yeah, but, I mean, that is just insane. Like, and also, that's disgusting. Chioma Nnadi: I know. Chloe Malle: Like, at least sunglasses, you wipe them down. They're clean. Chioma Nnadi: But do you think people buy them to wear them? Chloe Malle: No. Chioma Nnadi: I know, I mean- Chloe Malle: It's like a, it's a religious relic. It's... Chioma Nnadi: ... right. Chloe Malle: I mean, this is not like- Chioma Nnadi: They put them in case, or what happens to them? Are they in a safe? Chloe Malle: ... I hope if you're paying 200K for something, you're putting them in a case. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: But, like, it's, this is not, like, the Christie's Paul Allen master works by master painters sale. This is people... I mean, the woman at Stair Galleries that did the Joan Didion auction, she said that people were calling to say, "I can't afford anything, but how much would a single paper clip be?" Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: Like, there was a, a lot that had been organized- Chioma Nnadi: It's a real cult. Chloe Malle: ... but th-, there was a lot that was organized that looked like the bargain bin of Staples. It was, like- Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Chloe Malle: ... an old, like, uh, legal pad, and a bunch of old, b-, you know, binder clips. And it sold for $4000. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: And you're just like, uh, people are just, uh, I don't know, different strokes for different folks. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. So, newsflash. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: Balenciaga has left Twitter. Chloe Malle: Do I care? Chioma Nnadi: I think you should care. I mean, I think it, it, it sort of raises the question, will other fashion brands follow? Will other fashion people follow? Will we see- Chloe Malle: Is this, like, the beginning of- Chioma Nnadi: ... is this the beginning of, like- Chloe Malle: ... a mass Twitter exodus? Chioma Nnadi: ... a mass, uh, yes. You never know. I mean, I think it's good. I mean, I think Elon Musk is, is, has made a mess of it so far. And- Chloe Malle: Okay, so what will, what will this augur for other fashion companies going forward? And what about, like, individuals? What about fashion influencers, and- Chioma Nnadi: ... exactly. Chloe Malle: ... journalists, et cetera. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, it does help that, you know, Twitter isn't particularly a fashion [laughs]- Chloe Malle: Well, that's, uh, true. Chioma Nnadi: ... forward space, you know. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: It's not visual space, so, you know, I think Instagram sort of holds that- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... along with, you know, TikTok for Gen Z. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: Um, but I still think it's meaningful, and I still think it's something to watch. Chloe Malle: Okay, all right. You can watch it. Keep me posted. Chioma Nnadi: I'll watch it. I'll keep... I'm disabling my Twitter account, so I won't be able to [laughs]. Chloe Malle: I haven't been on Twitter for five years, so... Chioma Nnadi: I rarely use it. I rarely use it. I'm not a big tweeter. Chloe Malle: No. Chioma Nnadi: Okay, so after the break, we have two interviews, one with supermodel Natalia Vodianova and her long-lost sister, and one with Black Panther star Michaela Coel. Chloe Malle: Fair warning to our listeners. Our first interview is a bit of a tear-jerker. Chioma Nnadi: Yes, that's right. We spoke with supermodel Natalia Vodianova, and her sister, Jenna, but honestly, it wasn't until rechannel that the two had even met. Chloe Malle: Natalia and her sister were separated shortly after Jenna's birth. Chioma Nnadi: A few years after this separation, Natalia's modeling career blew up. She was signed as a model in Paris at the age of 17. Chloe Malle: Yeah, but she spent her early life in central Russia, which she describes as very bleak. Uh, she even helped support the family when she was 11 years old by selling apples on the side of the road. Chioma Nnadi: And Natalia was raised by a single mother, so when her mother became pregnant with her fourth child, she had to make a really difficult choice. Chloe Malle: Natalia was 15 at the time, and was old enough to vividly remember the decision to give up baby number four for adoption. Do you have a, a memory of the last time you saw her, or what it was like leaving her? Natalia Vodianova: Yes. It was in the hospital, and I wasn't allowed to pick her up. So I just put my hand through the, the baby bed to, to just, because I wanted to touch her, and, and she just grabbed my finger. Um, and then, uh, you know, of course, I, I was crying my eyes out, and, and we stayed like this for as long as I could. And, you know, in that, in that moment, I, I kind of quite stupidly made a promise that we'll see each other again. So it was really, really hard to live with. Chioma Nnadi: The baby was named Masha at birth. She is now Jenna Burns. Jenna was adopted by an American couple who couldn't have children of their own. Chloe Malle: Jenna says she had a very happy all-American childhood, and she never thought there would be a chance to meet her biological family. But at annual checkups with her doctor, she never knew how to fill out the medical history, and she subscribed to a DNA app. Chioma Nnadi: Natalia and her sister Jenna join us from Paris and North Carolina. Jenna Burns: From what I knew about the circumstances I was born into, I didn't expect to find any family. I didn't even know if they were alive. You know, I got my test results back, and I, I was healthy. And then, uh, there she was. So I didn't know who she was before her test. You know, I just googled her name, and I didn't even think it was her. I was like, oh, that's so funny. It's such a coincidence, there's someone out... same name [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: So what did you do next? Jenna Burns: Nothing [laughs]. Natalia Vodianova: Nothing [laughs]. Jenna Burns: In all of my research about her, you know, it sounds quite creepy, but I did look into her a lot. I knew that no one knew I existed. You know, she, she'd had quite a public life, and I wasn't part of it at the time. So I wasn't, I wasn't sure if she was interested in a relationship. So I really didn't do anything. I didn't tell anyone. I, I think I told, like, the guy I was dating at the time, and then, like, two of my friends. I think a couple weeks went by where I was knowing this information, and I just, like, I, I typed up a message. I didn't tell anyone I was planning on messaging her. It was kind of a last-second decision. I was sitting in my room at, like, 2:00 in the morning, and just couldn't sleep. And so, I just, you know, pulled my phone and sent her a message. And I wasn't sure if she would respond. I mean, I did- Chloe Malle: What did the message say? Jenna Burns: ... uh, yeah, I'll, I'll read it. I've got it pulled up on my phone. So I said, uh, "Hi. My name is Jennifer Burns, and I was born in Nizhniy Novgorod in 1999 under the name that, you know, that I was given. According to this DNA site, you could be my aunt or half-sister." I said, "After doing a bit of research, I figured that you are possibly the famous model with the same name. Whether or not this is true, I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to disrupt your personal life by contacting you. I'm perfectly content in simply knowing that you are alive and well. Feel free to contact me again. However, if you are not interested in a relationship, I understand. This is all very new for me as well. I did not expect to find any close family members when taking this test. Assuming you knew of my existence and have possibly wondered about me, as I have with my biological family, I'll just leave you with the knowledge that I'm happy and doing well, and I hope the same for you." Chloe Malle: Wow. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. I'm getting goosebumps just hearing you read it. Natalia Vodianova: You can't imagine my state when I read this, but I did not read this for two years. By the way, it's something that those emails, you know, they come every week. There is the, "You have a new biological, like, 15 new relatives." Jenna Burns: Like, yeah. Natalia Vodianova: And every week, you receive this. And so, of course, when I first did this test, which was in 2018, so just a year before Jenna did it- Chloe Malle: Wow. Natalia Vodianova: ... you know, the first few months, I was jumping at all these messages, and sort of like... And then, you know, you are a 0.04% related, or a 0.5% related. It's your fifth cousin, your sixth cousins. You know, at some point, I'm like, well, who are you kidding? I mean, why would she be doing this test? It just, it just was too painful. So I, I just stopped, and the reason why I even saw this message, because our sister Kristina did it. Even when she saw Jennifer appear on the site, the, as a sibling, she thought that it was my, somehow my fake identity on the site. So she sent me a message. She said, "Is that you?" And, uh, and of course, I, straightaway, I realized that it was Jenna. I mean, I say "Jenna," but Jenna was not Jenna [laughs], not Jenna to me as now, but... Chloe Malle: Yeah. And what did you write her? How did you respond when you finally saw it two years later? Natalia Vodianova: I said that I'm in, just gutted and devastated that I'm just seeing this now, and, uh, cannot believe that this is happening, and that I'm, I've been waiting for this moment, uh, since the moment we said goodbye. And sh-, I didn't see a letter from her for a couple of years. Will it take her a couple of years to see a letter from me? I was frantic. I was just frantically googling all Jennifer Burnses in the world [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [Laughs] Jenna, what was your experience? Were you, flip back to your side of receiving that message? Jenna Burns: I opened all of my emails, and there was, like, 10 or 15 messages between, you know, the two of my sisters [laughs], and I was sitting there in the car, like, in, in complete shock. And m-, my friend was like, you know, what's wrong? Is everything okay? And I just, like, handed her my phone. She was one of the only people who actually knew who my sister was, a-, and so, we both freaked out together [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Oh, my God. Could you read one or two of those messages? Do you have them? Jenna Burns: I mean, Natalia, do you mind me reading them? Natalia Vodianova: No, I don't mind, of course. Jenna Burns: You said it. Natalia Vodianova: [Laughs] Jenna Burns: It was, it was kind of, it was quite funny, uh, because, you know, they were, they were so frantic. I, I could tell that [laughs]. They say a lot of things in a short period of time. Natalia Vodianova: [Laughs] Jenna Burns: But, um, could tell she was typing really fast. There was a lot of misspelled words [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [Laughs] Natalia Vodianova: [Laughs] Jenna Burns: Lot of exclamation points. Um- Chloe Malle: Aww. Jenna Burns: ... she, she basically, you know, said, "Hello. I just got your message. You know, you can't imagine what this means to me. I've, I've been looking for you for so long. You know, I'm very overwhelmed. I'm crying rivers. I have so much to tell you, so many hugs to give you, so happy." Like- Chloe Malle: Aww. Jenna Burns: ... [laughs] and then at the end, she said, "I hope it doesn't take you two years to read this [laughs]." Chloe Malle: [Laughs] Chioma Nnadi: So you two planned a trip to meet each other. What do you remember about it? Jenna Burns: I just remember, it seems like it happened in slow motion. Because we were standing there getting our luggage, and I turn around, and, and she was, like, there on the other side of, like... I couldn't hug her yet, because there was this big glass, like, viewing area. Natalia Vodianova: Yes, we, we were, we, we were very impatient. W-, so we went where you can see, you can see all the people getting their luggages, and we were looking. And finally, so th-, they were walking out. Just as I see her, she's turning around, and she sees me. And she's like, "Ahh!" [Laughs] She's like- Jenna Burns: You know, she was smiling and waving, and I just, I looked like I had seen a ghost. I was pale. I was sweating. I was doing so unwell [laughs], and, but, you know, walked around the corner, and she was there. And she just, like, you know, held her arms open, and I just walked into them. And then we, you know, hugged and cried on each other's shoulders. It was great [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Wow. Natalia Vodianova: And release all the tears, all this tension that build up over years, many, many years, so it was great. We went to south of France, got drunk together, danced together, traveled a bit together, got to dress up together, went to museums and had fun in Paris, then definitely all this was the, was a lot of, a lot of hugs. Chloe Malle: Jenna, do you have any memories from Paris that, that really stick out from that trip? Jenna Burns: You know, the big three introductions, the first time I met her, the first time I met Kristina, and the first time I met our mom all are very, like, significant memories. Chloe Malle: And, Jenna, can you tell us about meeting your, your birth mother, and, and just a little bit, what that... I can't imagine what that experience must be like. Jenna Burns: It was not at all like meeting either of my sisters. It was very, like, private, and intimate introduction. I was sitting on your back patio, facing away from the door, and I just turned around, and she was there. Uh, we, we couldn't understand each other. I didn't know any Russian, and she didn't know much English, but it was a very, like, intimate moment, lots of hugs. I was just, I feel like I was, like, in shock. Yeah, it was, it was beautiful, but also, like, really scary [laughs]. I, I just remember being nervous, and, like, oh, man, what I-, what if she doesn't like me? Chloe Malle: Aww. Natalia Vodianova: She was crying a lot, um, our mom, and, and, and it was different for her, because we, uh, Jenna and I, we got to know each other. We were communicating all the time. We were, we speak the same language. She doesn't speak English, so for her, there's so much, of course, she wanted to tell Jenna that she couldn't tell her. And I think that it was all in that emotion, all in that, in, in that hug, and those tears, and that hand-holding, and, and I underestimated what it really meant to her as well. I really underestimated what a release she had, finding her, and knowing that she's well, and that everything is worked out the way we hoped. And, uh, actually, since we got the news, and since this year, she just blossomed. She's been walking on clouds lately. She just said, "I'm so happy. I'm so grateful. Life is so good." Chloe Malle: Has this changed your concept of family, and sort of the way family comes together, and the way you think about family? Natalia Vodianova: It, it's really strange. Now that Jenna is back in, in our lives, I don't, I, I don't feel like she was ever not there. Like, it's, it's sort of almost like a now, a bad dream, so it's, yeah, for me, it's, it didn't, and not, not much has changed. But, uh, I imagine it's very different for Jenna, because she didn't know I existed, and she didn't remember me. Jenna Burns: To me, the more people that are added, the more blessed I feel in a way, especially, you know, you know, my sister's not thinking there would ever be a possibility of this happening. I do know other adopted children, and I don't know anyone that this has happened to. Chloe Malle: Wow. Jenna Burns: Uh, I definitely consider myself to be very fortunate, you know, so, so fortunate that my family is so supportive, and, you know, wants to be part of this, uh, this as well. And just that I'm, you know, very, very lucky. Natalia Vodianova: We are, but we, we have to, we, we do have a, an issue of managing holidays [laughs]. Jenna Burns: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Chloe Malle: Yeah, what happens? Natalia Vodianova: Jenna, Jenna is gonna be so in-demand [laughs] this, this Christmas. Chloe Malle: This has been amazing, and- Chioma Nnadi: It's been truly amazing. Chloe Malle: ... we feel so grateful to you both for taking the time, and the emotional effort to, to share this with us. It's, it's such a remarkable story, and I'm just so thrilled to hear about this. It's, it's unbelievable. Chioma Nnadi: Truly remarkable. Thank you both so much for sharing that with us. Natalia Vodianova: Thank you so much for being great, uh, listeners, and, and giving us the space to express this joy. Thank you. Jenna Burns: Yes, thank you very much. Chloe Malle: And Annie Leibovitz actually photographed Natalia and Jenna together, and the image is really beautiful and powerful. And I encourage everyone to go to vogue.com and check it out. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, it's, it's, it's really beautiful, and if you'd like to know even more about their remarkable story, our colleague, Hamish Bowles, wrote a fantastic piece for the magazine. That's also on vogue.com. Chloe Malle: Chioma, I want to hear about your interview with Michaela Coel. Chioma Nnadi: No, it was so much. You know, she, she was actually in town, so we did it... You know, she came into the studio, and she's, she's so much more of a podcast pro than I am. When she got to the studio, she, she wanted us both to wear headphones. Chloe Malle: [Laughs] Michaela Coel: Is it these- Chioma Nnadi: I don't know if we need to. Okay, maybe it's weird. Michaela Coel: ... I like it. Chioma Nnadi: You like it? Michaela Coel: I think I like it, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: I like it too, all right. Michaela Coel: It's been a while since I've done a- Chioma Nnadi: Okay. Michaela Coel: ... a podcast. This is nice. Chioma Nnadi: It feels, oh, it feels different when you have them on [laughs]. Michaela Coel: It does. Chioma Nnadi: It feels nice. Michaela Coel: Yeah [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] So cute. You know, I feel so lucky, because I got to spend so much time with her this year. Chloe Malle: Yeah, Chioma wrote the amazing cover story on Michaela for our November issue, and you got to go to Ghana with her. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, it was amazing. I, I got to go to Accra. We shot- Chloe Malle: Oh, my God. Chioma Nnadi: ... we shot all across the city. At one point, we were on the beach, and there were, you know, riders on horseback surrounding us. It was really special. Chloe Malle: Oh, the photos are spectacular. Everyone should go to vogue.com to see them if you haven't, because they are just a magical mystery tour of life across Accra. It is incredible to see who... It was Ib Kamara who styled them, and- Chioma Nnadi: Kamara and Malick Bodian [inaudible 00:23:44] images. Chloe Malle: ... incredible. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, it was really, it was r-, it was really special, and, um, we talked a bit about the shoot, and why she wanted to be in Ghana. And it's funny, because I realized I never knew why she wanted to do the shoot in Ghana. So I asked her. Michaela Coel: Whenever I'm asked, I always say Ghana, because I'm passionate about bringing work there, about working there, because I want people to know how possible it is to create amazing things there. And my dad is always, um, you know, oh, and he's in the shoot. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Michaela Coel: Yeah, I'm, like, writing, and I'm- Chioma Nnadi: And your grandma. Michaela Coel: ... and my grandma, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Michaela Coel: And so, when I'm writing, and I say, "Oh, yeah, it's set in Ghana," my dad's always like, "Ah, why? Why not America? Go where the money... the money is there. What are you doing?" Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Michaela Coel: But I, I want even just for my dad... If it's for my dad alone, to understand that we can create amazing things in Ghana, then that's my mission, and that's why I said, uh, Ghana, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: W-, what did Dad and Grandma think of the pictures? They looked pretty amazing. Michaela Coel: So proud. My dad is, like, the whole of... It's a known fact. What my dad actually said [laughs] is, "Most of us, Akuma, are proud of you [laughs]." Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] What? Why most, most? Michaela Coel: I'm like, I'm like, do I dissect that, Dad? Like, what does that mean? Like, who else have you spoken to that has some critique about our choices [laughs]? But, um, he's generally very proud. Just to hear, like, my cousins, who are like, wait, why is uncle in Vogue? Why is grandma in Vogue? What happening? Everybody's heads are spinning, but my dad loves it. My grandma just, um, adores it. I'm trying to get it printed out for her, so that she can stick it up in her house, and gaze at her beautiful self. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, that has to be framed. That's a good holiday gift. I'm feeling that for the holidays. Michaela Coel: Oh, my God, that's a very good point. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Michaela Coel: It's a holiday gift. It's a, you know, get small versions for the Christmas cards. Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Michaela Coel: Just keep, it's the gift that keeps on giving. Chioma Nnadi: It is the gift that keeps on giving, and it was such a gift to go with you. There were some hair-raising moments, I must say. I watched Michaela shut down traffic. You were skating in the middle of the street. I mean, but people do. I mean, in Ghana, I've seen- Michaela Coel: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: ... we saw people skating in the middle of the streets. It's, like, a thing. Michaela Coel: It really is. I was just having so much fun. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Michaela Coel: Chilled. At one point, there was IB in the truck, and I would skate. And sometimes, I would just hold onto the truck [laughs], and I would let the truck just wheel me through. It was fun. The other hair-raising time that everybody else experienced was the horses. Chioma Nnadi: The horses. So just to set the scene, we go to the beach. It's actually, I think it's, like, it was a holiday. I think it was, um, Eid. So we sort of pass crowds of people dressed up. It was a really beautiful day. Then we go down to the beach, and there are horses. Like, it sounds so random, and it was. But actually, I think that horses on the beach are a thing in Accra. It's sort of kind of great, right, to see these young people riding horses. And for me, that was just a, like, I to-, intake of breath. I was like, wow. Like, as if this place couldn't be more cool, like- Michaela Coel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... this... I wouldn't have wanted to be surrounded by them [laughs]- Michaela Coel: I don't know why- Chioma Nnadi: ... necessarily. Michaela Coel: ... I just felt very safe, and I have no idea why. There's no reason for me to feel safe in that situation, but I did. The horses were going round, and it's only when I saw Malick's little video that I realized how close the horse- Chioma Nnadi: Very close. Michaela Coel: ... yes, because everybody was like, Michaela, there was a moment where it looked like the horse was gonna crash into you. And I was just busy doing Vogue. I was like, let me just- Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Michaela Coel: ... let me just channel my, my, you know, Madons. Let me just be voguing while the horses were literally, like, grazing the hairs on my back. I didn't know. I just felt, I think the adrenaline of the fact that it was happening, that we were shooting for Vogue in Ghana. I was grinning the whole time. I think after the first day, I cried. I was just like, for this to be happening is incredible. And I generally, you know, as I say, I don't process things, but I think when we wrapped on that day, I did. And it filled me with... I was overwhelmed. I'm getting teary now just talking about it. I was so thankful, which is why I was willing to do any and everything. How many looks do we want to do? I'll do all of them. We are going to find a way. Where am I changing? Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Michaela Coel: Am I changing in the middle of this market, hiding behind a car door? Chioma Nnadi: It wasn't very glamorous, I will say. You are hiding behind a car door, getting changed. I mean, the look was, was major. Yeah, I, I have to say it was, it was really special being there with you, and seeing you in that mode, because you feel it. So I wanted to ask you about what's next for you. Looking back, you've had an amazing year. You know, looking back, what are some of the things that you're thinking, "I wanna bring into the new year"? Like, I wanna think about this, and what are the things that no longer serve you? Michaela Coel: There's things I probably want to do less, and there's things I want to do more. Chioma Nnadi: What do you wanna more of? Michaela Coel: Yeah, what do I wanna do more of? I, I definitely miss my alone time. So this period is definitely a, I'm outside period. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Michaela Coel: There's, I'm outside. Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Michaela Coel: And I'm maxing out the outside-ness, because I know next year is going to be very work-focused, and it requires me to, again, extract myself from being social, um, so that I can move forward with my stories, which I'm excited about. It's just quite nice to take the focus off of my own life, and think about somebody else's for a while. It feels like it's been a very Michaela-centric year or two for me, and I've loved it. I also shy away from it, being a Brit, and being Ghanaian. Chioma Nnadi: The combo is tough [laughs]. Michaela Coel: The combo is tough, you know. I want to just constantly bow my head, and avert my eyes [laughs]- Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Michaela Coel: ... from, from anybody looking at me. Um, but I've, I've been told, you know, especially by my mom, to try and process what's happening, and recognize I still struggle, that there's a reason that's happening. So the reasons I've come to [laughs], to keep my sanity, is that if I was young, if I was just me now, to see me, someone like me on the cover of Vogue, or in Black Panther, or, you know, just in this platform... I'm getting teary. Uh, would probably have really changed the narrative that I had built for myself growing up, which is that I am not beautiful. Why would anybody ever want me to go on television? I have an ugly face. Why would I ever be there? There's all these, um, horrible tales that we tell ourselves when we're not visible. So to possibly be part of changing that is really beautiful. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, it's so beau-... I mean, the response, honestly, the people, the, the comments, the w-, you know, how many people were so grateful, and so excited. And it feels, it felt like such a warm moment. And how many warm moments do we get on the internet? I know you're not on social media. Michaela Coel: Correct. I missed the whole thing. That's the other thing. Chioma Nnadi: You are N-A, N-A. Michaela Coel: Yeah, I don't know what's happening. So, like, I'm- Chioma Nnadi: I know. I, I was thinking about that as all of the messages, and seeing the commentary, and just, like, oh, God, I hope Michaela feels the love. Like- Michaela Coel: ... I can actually feel it. I can feel- Chioma Nnadi: ... good. Michaela Coel: ... the love. I actually do, which is maybe more special than, than seeing the comments. I feel it in my soul. Chioma Nnadi: Good. I'm so glad, and thank you so much. Michaela Coel: Pleasure. Chioma Nnadi: This was wonderful. Michaela Coel: Always great. Thanks for having me, Chioma. Chioma Nnadi: The Run Through with Vogue is a production of Conde Nast Entertainment. Chloe Malle: If you enjoyed our show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Chioma Nnadi: And please tell your friends. Chloe Malle: And enemies. Chioma Nnadi: [Laughs] Chloe Malle: If you want to get in touch with us, send us a note to therunthrough@Vogue.com. We'd love to hear from you. I'm Chloe Malle. Chioma Nnadi: And I'm Chioma Nnadi. Chloe Malle: Bye. Chioma Nnadi: Bye.