Chloe Malle: This is The Run-Through. I'm Chloe Malle. Chioma Nnadi: And I'm Chioma Nnadi, and we have a friend here in the studio with us today, Virginia Smith of Vogue. She's the Global Head of Fashion. Chloe Malle: Virginia, this is very exciting. Welcome to The Run-Through with Vogue. Virginia Smith: Thank you, Chloe. So glad to be here. Chloe Malle: Can you introduce yourself to us? Virginia Smith: Yes. I'm Virginia Smith, and I'm the Global Lead for Fashion. Chloe Malle: What does that mean? Virginia Smith: Your guess is as good as mine, Chloe. [laughing] But, uh, um, I basically sort of lead the Global Fashion Network, uh, which we... Is a network of editors that work across Vogue, GQ, Vanity Fair, Allure, Glamour, Teen Vogue, and we work globally as a group of networks together. Chloe Malle: [inaudible 00:00:44] Chioma Nnadi: AKA a lot of work. [laughs] I don't think a lot of people know how many territories we work with. How many do you directly work with? Virginia Smith: For Vogue, um, which is those are the largest fashion team, we work with a large group in the United States, a big group in the UK, and then we have teams in Italy, France, Spain, Mexico, India, Taiwan, and Japan. Chloe Malle: Wow. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: Okay. I want to talk about some things that everyone's been thinking about this week- Virginia Smith: Okay. Chloe Malle: Which is I feel like since the end of last week, everyone's been very ruffled about Law Roach's- Virginia Smith: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Instagram announcement right after The Oscars- Virginia Smith: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: That he is retiring. I don't know Law. I'm a student of his work with Zendaya and others, but what's your takeaway from this? Because then he also did a, a podcast interview with Lindsay Peoples. Virginia Smith: Yeah. It was actually a really great interview, and like, I watched it in bed on a Saturday morning, and I couldn't believe I watched the whole thing. Chloe Malle: Wow. It was over an hour. Virginia Smith: But his story's so compelling. Yeah. And hearing him tell his story, obviously his... He's had tremendous challenges in his life. I mean, he talks about it in this interview, how his mother, you know... He had to kind of basically raise himself from a very young age. Chloe Malle: His mother left him alone when he was 14. Virginia Smith: Yes. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Virginia Smith: Yes. So, he talked about constantly being in like, survival mode, and I think a lot of his responses, and the way that he's had to approach the world and this... The world of fashion, like, he's always kind of felt that he's had to be... He's kind of on his own, finding a way in, having to be really scrappy, and really put all of his passion into it because he... I mean, it was interesting hearing him talking about it. It sounds like he has like, zero life work balance. His work takes up his entire life. It takes up his entire heart. You can tell he's so passionate about what he does, and I think for him, he has gotten to a point, which I think few celebrity stylists, or stylists in general get to, where he has become a star in his own right. And I think you get to that point and you start to think about, well, what's my worth in the conversation around fashion, and, and what I'm doing, and what I'm giving, and is there room for me to expand in another direction? And I think that's the conclusion he got to. Obviously, there were lots of details. I think it all started at the Louis Vuitton show because there was seemingly not a seat for him next to Zendaya and he's so used to... They came up together. I mean, I interviewed- Chloe Malle: Okay, but she's the star. So, is that- Virginia Smith: She's... Yes. She's the star, but, like, they have this symbiotic relationship. I remember going to interview Zendaya backstage when she did that Tommy collaboration, and it was like he... They completed each other's sentences. Like, it's a real co- collaboration. Chloe Malle: Okay. But creativity does not a seating chart make. [laughs] Virginia Smith: No. No. And I think that was probably like, the straw that broke the camel's back. Chloe Malle: Okay. Virginia Smith: I don't think it was the reason that he's retiring, and obviously, like, he's also very good at social media so he, he knows how to get people talking. He used it as a moment to really tell his story, in my opinion. Chloe Malle: Can we also say, like, who he styles, what he's known for? Virginia Smith: Yeah. I mean, he's also... He's, he's... He styles Zendaya. He's- Chloe Malle: Kerry Washington. Virginia Smith: Kerry, Kerry Washington. I mean, the list is endless. Um, Anne Hathaway. Chloe Malle: He dressed Hunter Schafer in that like, feather- Virginia Smith: Anne Hathaway, Hunter Schafer. Chloe Malle: Was that Loewe? Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:04:05] Virginia Smith: [inaudible 00:04:05] Yeah. Chloe Malle: Oh. It was basically just a feather as a bra, uh, to the Vanity Fair Oscar's party. I don't know Law, but I will say that there's... Takes some chutzpah to insist on being called an image architect, [laughing] not a stylist. Just gonna say that. Virginia Smith: Law is a... Is a tour de force. There's no getting around that. You're always at the beck and call of everyone else if you're in that position, and I would imagine after so many years of that, it's just there's a limit to what you can take. Chioma Nnadi: As your star rises, your team gets bigger, and I think he's very focused on having a very personal close relationship with the women, mostly who he styles, and I think it becomes more challenging when there is... When you-... When your team grows bigger and there's so many people that- Chloe Malle: And the lines of communication get clogged. Chioma Nnadi: The lines... Yes. So many stakeholders. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Suddenly you're not... It's not just an intimate conversation. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Everyone has an opinion. I... That, that seems extremely frustrating. I would completely understand that. So Law's a good, uh, reminder in self-care. Maybe let's, let's have that be the takeaway- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: And, and putting yourself first. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Yes. Chloe Malle: Um- Virginia Smith: And if you're gonna retire, go big. [laughing] Chloe Malle: Yeah, yeah. Jeremy Scott of Moschino- Virginia Smith: Yes. Chloe Malle: Announced he is not retiring, but departing. For me, I just associate him with loud hamburger moments. Is there more nuance to it than that, Virginia? Virginia Smith: I was sitting there the first time we had... The first Jeremy Scott Moschino show, and I was frankly like, a little like, wow, McDonald's, okay, unexpected. [laughing] But I have to say, you know, I think he brought a huge amount of energy around that brand, and ultimately, I think he got a lot of devoted clients around that brand, and I think he's done a really tremendous job for Moschino. I mean, people were always talking about it. It was clever. Chloe Malle: 'Cause a lot of them were like very gimmicky, or trompe-l'oeil, or... Truly, Katy Perry, uh, no joke wore an actual foam hamburger to the Met Ball. Uh, um- Chioma Nnadi: I don't think it was to the Met Ball. It was to the after party. Chloe Malle: I feel like I remember her walking up those stairs a- as a hamburger. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, she's worn a chandelier and the hamburger- Chloe Malle: Oh, was it? I see. Sorry. [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: Chandelier might have been for the Met, and the after party might have been the hamburger. But nevertheless- Chloe Malle: It's still pretty out there. Chioma Nnadi: Oof. Chloe Malle: Out there. Splitting fries. [laughing] All right. Virginia Smith: You know, I say he's done an incredible job, but I can see how after 10 years, he's ready to pass the baton to someone else. So- Chloe Malle: And where is his baton going? Virginia Smith: I mean, he obviously has his own brand that, you know, I'm sure he'd probably like to pay more attention to. I don't know. I read something today, and it sounded like he might have something else in the works, but he did not want to say. So- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Hm. Chioma Nnadi: I got the sense there's a lot of mystery around what he's... And I don't think he's quite ready to announce the thing, but there is- Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: It does seem like something's cooking. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: It's... And it's not fries. Sorry, bad joke. [laughing] Chloe Malle: I- it feels fitting. Uh, I also feel like everyone's been talking about the Lauren Collins New Yorker article about, um- Virginia Smith: Yes. Chloe Malle: Demna and Balenciaga. I feel like most people haven't read all of the article, but, um- Chioma Nnadi: I'm raising my hand. Virginia Smith: I'm saving it for that Saturday morning when I can just [inaudible 00:07:17] [laughing] Chioma Nnadi: Full disclosure, Virginia has it printed out right here, so we can all take a look at it. And unfortunately, something went wrong and it has literally become a 50 page book right here that I can- Chloe Malle: Virginia has a 50 page printout that looks like [inaudible 00:07:31] flashcards. Chioma Nnadi: In a font that I can read from here. [laughing] Chloe Malle: It looks like you're giving a history report in sixth grade. Chioma Nnadi: But since you have read said article, why don't you give us some... The highlights? Chloe Malle: Here's what I will say, for you two- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Chloe Malle: Who are deeply versed in the language of Demna and Balenciaga, and the past five years of him at the brand, there's not a ton that you won't know in the article. For me, who is Demna-adjacent and doesn't... I don't go to the shows. I don't know the ins and outs of it. I found it to be extremely helpful contextually. I thought Lauren did a great job of centering him in the cultural conversation. Lauren's a great, uh, para space New Yorker writer. She does sort of every great profile from France, and she describes him as a combo of P.T. Barnum and Walter [inaudible 00:08:22], in which I thought was great. It's like it's both the showman, but also the critique of the culture at the same time. And also, on the, the heels of this past show, where he really made a point of going back to the, the roots of the craft, and he... You know, he said, "Maybe I was born to be a seamstress, not a designer." And the show invitation was a jacket pattern that you could actually take to your tailor to have made, which I didn't realize. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, I didn't realize that. That's, that's- Chloe Malle: I hope you kept it, Chioma. Chioma Nnadi: We did not. [laughs] Chloe Malle: But sh-... Lauren did a great job describing the last like, five shows, which I remember, of course, seeing on social media and hearing about. He was known for these great shows of pageantry and showmanship that were both very theatrical and based in, in play, like he did a Simpsons film, but also real commentary on sociopolitical situations. And, and also had quite a lot of sort of, you know, coy humor in it, like recreating the EU Parliament. Um- Virginia Smith: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, that was epic. Chloe Malle: So I, I did think that Lauren did a great job of, of just sort of setting the scene for those of us who might not be as Balenciaga fluent. Oh, I wanted to see if anyone, uh, is excited about Succession? Virginia Smith: Oh my God, so excited. Chloe Malle: Because I feel like people haven't been this excited about a new season of shows since White Lotus. Feels like a big cultural moment, but our colleague, Taylor Antrim wrote a review. He watched the first four episodes and truly, it was l- he couldn't gush enough. Virginia Smith: Wow. Chloe Malle: He just said it was a transcendental experience. [laughing] Virginia Smith: What day does it actually go [inaudible 00:09:56]? Chloe Malle: Sunday evening. Virginia Smith: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: Ooh. I watched an episode of Swarm, which everyone's talking about. Chloe Malle: What's that? Virginia Smith: Oh, I have not seen that. How is that? Chloe Malle: I don't even know what that is. Virginia Smith: Dark. Guys, get ready. So ,it is Donald Glover's new show. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: It stars Dominique Fishback. It is basically based on a true story of a... Of a Beyonce super fan who... And kind of gets embroiled in this kind of grizzly- Chloe Malle: Beehive? Is that why it's called Swarm? Chioma Nnadi: Mm, I don't even know if I wanna give it away, 'cause it's so- Chloe Malle: Okay. Okay. Okay. Virginia Smith: Okay. It sounds amazing. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. So she's a... She's... She has this roommate, and they're, they're best friends, and there's a boyfriend involved, and there's a cheating situation and then it gets very dark. Chloe Malle: Hm. Chioma Nnadi: And I've only watched one episode and I'm obsessed, and I love... I love Dominique Fishback. She's adorable. Chloe Malle: Ooh. Okay. That's fun. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. And she's been doing some really cute looks on the red carpet in the last couple of years too. She's, she's adorable. I'm, I'm very here for her. Chloe Malle: Okay. Virginia Smith: I am completely obsessed with Drive to Survive. Chloe Malle: Oh, I don't know what that is. [inaudible 00:10:57] Virginia Smith: Oh my God. You guys, it's been on for like- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, I know. I, I've heard- Virginia Smith: This is like, season four or five. Chioma Nnadi: I keep hearing about this. Chloe Malle: I have no idea what it is. Virginia Smith: Okay. It's about F1 racing- Chloe Malle: Oh wow. Virginia Smith: Which, what do I know about F1 racing? But that's my... That led into my obsession to Lewis Hamilton, as you know. Chloe Malle: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Virginia Smith: Which we've discussed in depth, but the whole thing is amazing. That's your next assignment. Chioma Nnadi: Describe your style, for people who maybe don't know. Virginia Smith: Well, I have, uh, pretty much a uniform at this point in my life, which is mainly a sweater and a pant of some sort, and I'm typically- Chioma Nnadi: Very chic, by the way, guys- Chloe Malle: It's usually a wide leg pant. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Virginia Smith: It's usually a wide leg pant, and that is- Chloe Malle: It's usually a boot of some sort. Virginia Smith: There's usually a boot of some sort, maybe a sandal... Well, I have on Celine by Phoebe Philo today. Chioma Nnadi: Ah, so good. I bet you're... I mean, we're all excited for Phoebe to come back. Virginia Smith: Oh my God, I am, like, waiting with baited breath. We're saving up. But I'm... I... You know, I, I like a particular silhouette, and it... I'm not so particular to the brand as I am the style. Chloe Malle: And what's your go-to dressing up outfit, or brand? Virginia Smith: Uh, well I wear a lot of [inaudible 00:12:15] Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Virginia Smith: As you probably both know. Chioma Nnadi: Yes, yes, yes. Virginia Smith: I'm a big fan of his, so I have, um... It's usually [inaudible 00:12:22] I have a, a dress that I love, a skirt that I love, and then, um, obviously a bunch of, um, pants that I love from him, but [inaudible 00:12:30] Chloe Malle: You're one... Someone I think does black tie pants the best of anyone I know. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, it was beautiful, embellished with some- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: With some sort of special to twist to them. Virginia Smith: Thank you [inaudible 00:12:39] [laughing] Chioma Nnadi: A little bird told me, AKA, your best friend, Victor, that you started to work in politics, and so, like- Virginia Smith: Oh my God [inaudible 00:12:46] For some crazy reason, I ended up working for Secretary James Ed Baker III when he was at the Department Treasury. Now, bear in mind, my, my family is completely Democratic. My middle name is Fulbright from- Chloe Malle: Uh-huh. Virginia Smith: J. William Fulbright of the Fulbright Scholarship. He was the United States Democratic Senator, one of the most liberal senators for quite so time, so how in the world I ended up there, who knows? I was in Washington, all my friends had a job. I'd just graduated. I did not want to go back to Dallas. I grew up in a town called Texarkana, Arkansas, which is... And I'd gone to college at SMU in Dallas. And I really [laughs] did not want to go back to Dallas because I had co-... Just broken up with a boyfriend, which I just... My way of breaking up with him was never to call him back, so- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] You ghosted him. Virginia Smith: You know, I was very mature at that point in my life, so I went... I was like... Finally, my parents are like, "You've either got to get a job, or you've got to come home." And I called my poor mother, and I was like, "Well, I got a job." And I said, "[inaudible 00:13:41] for James Ed Baker III. And literally, I thought she was gonna have a heart attack. Chloe Malle: Aw. [laughing] Virginia Smith: But it ended up being sort of an incredible experience, but I did realize that, you know, politics was not gonna be what I want. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Fashion beckoned, New York beckoned. Virginia Smith: Exactly, exactly. Chloe Malle: So then, what happened? Virginia Smith: I end up moving to New York. I went to actually FITU for... And did a one year fashion buying and merchandising program- Chloe Malle: Ah. Virginia Smith: And it was great. Um, and then from there, I got a, um, internship at a company called Anne Klein. Chloe Malle: Mm. Virginia Smith: And wor-... Ended up working there for awhile, and from Anne Klein, I went to Calvin Klein. Chloe Malle: Are they related? Virginia Smith: They are not related. Chloe Malle: Okay. [laughing] Virginia Smith: Uh, they were in the same building. Chloe Malle: Had to ask. Virginia Smith: And the reason I got the job is because I held the door open for Gabriella Forte, who was then- Chioma Nnadi: Oh my gosh. Virginia Smith: The CEO of Calvin Klein. She's since become a friend of mine, but she- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, wow. Chloe Malle: Chivalry is not dead. Virginia Smith: But she... Exactly. You know, she was a quite a force, she still is a force, and they were all... Robert Triefus was my boss at the time who's now at Gucci- Chloe Malle: Wow, yeah. Virginia Smith: But he was like, I could tell, very nervous about me meeting Gabriella, right? And I walk in, she goes, "Oh, I know you. You held the door for me." And it was after, I could do no wrong because I'd held the door open for her. Chloe Malle: Wow. Chioma Nnadi: You just never know. Chloe Malle: These are good. Virginia Smith: Listen up, guys. Chloe Malle: Yeah. [laughing] Manners pay. Virginia Smith: Exactly. Chioma Nnadi: They do. Virginia Smith: You never know. Chloe Malle: So, you did PR at Calvin. Virginia Smith: I did PR at Calvin. Chloe Malle: And- Chioma Nnadi: A very interesting time. I mean, what was it like being at Calvin in those... At that time? Virginia Smith: So, this was the late '90s. Chloe Malle: Okay. Virginia Smith: I mean, late '90s, early 2000s, and, um, it was incredible. It was when Calvin the man was there, and- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Virginia Smith: But, uh, what led me to Vogue is that I decided after eight and a half years, I'd wanted to take a break from Calvin, and I really didn't know what I wanted to do, and I didn't want to look for a job while I was at, at Calvin. So, I talked to Calvin about it, and the day my [inaudible 00:15:38] I get a phone call from Tawny Goodman asking me to come see Anna, and I was like, "What are you talking about?" And she said, "Well, Wendy's resigned." Wendy Hirschberg was the market director for Vogue, and so I come in and see, you know, meet with Grace and Tawny, who I sort of, you know, knew obviously from working at Calvin, and then I- Chloe Malle: Grace Coddington Virginia Smith: Grace Coddington, Tawny Goodman, you know, i- icons. Chloe Malle: Mm. Virginia Smith: And, you know, then I go see Anna, and I think it was really, you know, a situation of ignorance is bliss on my part, you know? [laughing] You're just like- Chioma Nnadi: You're like, "I have no idea what I'm walking into." Virginia Smith: You know, I was like, I really didn't, and I didn't have any time to think about it because- Chloe Malle: What did you wear? Virginia Smith: Well, of course, I had on black, which is, of course- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, yeah, no, no. No, no. Chloe Malle: [inaudible 00:16:23] I know, no one told me that either. Virginia Smith: Well, listen, I was at Calvin. It was like, black and minimal, but I think the d-... The thing that probably did save me is that, you know, it was definitely in the, the time of everyone loving all the European designers- Chloe Malle: Right. Virginia Smith: And she asked me who I loved, and I said, "I actually do love Calvin Klein, you know, I've always worn it." That, I think, right then, she sent me, "Go, go see HR." [laughing] Chloe Malle: Anna Wintour does not love black. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, she rarely wears it herself. Virginia Smith: No, she is not. Chloe Malle: I have never seen Anna in black. Chioma Nnadi: I've seen her in- [inaudible 00:16:50] Chloe Malle: [inaudible 00:16:50] Chioma Nnadi: But there's always something else. Chloe Malle: Oh, she... You saw the vintage Chanel at the White House- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, that was [inaudible 00:16:55] Chloe Malle: It was fabulous. Chioma Nnadi: That was one of my fav [inaudible 00:16:56] Chloe Malle: But yeah, she's, she's more of a fan of a rainbow florals than- Virginia Smith: Yes. Chloe Malle: A black on black look. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: So you started what year? Okay. Virginia Smith: I started in 2002. Chloe Malle: So, it's been 20 years- Virginia Smith: It's been 20 years, and which is- Chloe Malle: What's the biggest difference from when you started to now in your job? Virginia Smith: Oh, God. Where do you begin? When I started, there was a, a group of editors, Grace Coddington, Tawny Goodman, Phyllis Posnick, Camilla Nickerson that were icons in the ever- Chioma Nnadi: Were you intimidated when you started? Virginia Smith: Yes, I was, uh, terrified of this women. I mean, terrified. [laughing] I w-... I would come in at the crack of dawn- Chloe Malle: [inaudible 00:17:32] Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:17:34] Virginia Smith: And I would have, like, you know, every single hanger, you know, perfectly lined up. Chloe Malle: Oh my God. Virginia Smith: I would like, you know, if that Chanel was not getting here, I was on the phone. Chloe Malle: Well, explain what, what that means, like what are you doing for these women? Virginia Smith: So, my role, particularly in the beginning, I was a, a market editor. We- we're called, like, it's, it's sort of an archaic term at this point, but- Chloe Malle: Why? Virginia Smith: Because I feel like, uh, the roles have really expanded so much, but I, I think in the beginning, it was probably to differentiate between the editors that go on shoots, and produce those shoots, and style those shoots, which were, were typically at that day and time, called sitting editors. Now they're more commonly referred to as stylists, but... And the market team is the team that really calls in all the clothes, all the shoes, all the accessories, all the jewelry, so we're really wanting to make all of these editors very happy, and start [inaudible 00:18:29] on the job. I was like, if we weren't getting that one Chanel look, I would be like, oof, sweating it out with Grace. [laughing] But, um- Chloe Malle: So, was this at 4 Times Square? Virginia Smith: This was at 4 Times Square, yes. Chloe Malle: Okay. And I feel like the thing I'm asked about most is what is the closet really like? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, no kidding. Chloe Malle: Is the closet like Devil Wears Prada, is it like, uh, Sex in the City? And it's not. But can you describe- Chioma Nnadi: There's a new closet now. Virginia Smith: Yes. I mean, you know- Chloe Malle: Yeah, how has the closet changed? Virginia Smith: The closet at 4 Times Square was, you know, not impressive, let's face it. Chioma Nnadi: It wasn't, no. Virginia Smith: It really wasn't. It was... I mean, it might have looked good in a couple of those Sex and the City things, but, oof, in real life, it was quite small. Chioma Nnadi: It was quite small. Virginia Smith: And windowless, obviously- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Virginia Smith: And you remember, we worked in the hallways of- Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Virginia Smith: 4 Times Square, like, all the editors had a rack outside of their office. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Virginia Smith: And we worked in these hallways that had very little lighting, for some inexplicable reason, but that's how we worked. But we did have a small- Chloe Malle: Did people steal things from racks? Virginia Smith: Oh, are you kidding? Chioma Nnadi: All the time. Virginia Smith: Camilla, Tawny, and me. Camilla and Tawny were probably the worst, sorry, sorry ladies, if you're listening, but you know it's true. [laughing] Um, I mean, Tawny is amazing at, at... [laughs] She... We used to say Tawny could do, like, ready, set, style instead of ready, set, go. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Virginia Smith: She could like, make anything. She could just take things off of everyone's rack and make her own story, she's pretty remarkable that way. Chloe Malle: It's like Top Chef. Virginia Smith: Yeah, she is. [laughing] It's very Top Chef. Grace can't be bothered. If it's... If it's not product, Grace is not interested. Chloe Malle: Send it home. Chioma Nnadi: Hilarious. Chloe Malle: So, the closet, like- Virginia Smith: But now, the closet- Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Virginia Smith: Is a whole different ballgame. Chloe Malle: Because it's nicer, or be-... Like, are there more things, are there actual clothes there? Virginia Smith: It's huge. Well, it's a... It's a global fashion network closet- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Virginia Smith: So contrary to Vogue believes, it is actually not just solely for, for Vogue. Chioma Nnadi: No, no. Virginia Smith: It's Vogue, and GQ, Vanity Fair, you know- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Everyone shares a closet now? Virginia Smith: Everyone, but it's, it's huge, and there's incredible light, and we have very fancy fitting rooms that we can use. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, the fitting rooms are gorgeous. Chloe Malle: There's fitting rooms? Virginia Smith: Oh, yes. Chioma Nnadi: You have to go in there, there's- Chloe Malle: I haven't been. Virginia Smith: Oh my God. Chioma Nnadi: There's great sofas, there's wallpaper- Chloe Malle: You can... Sofas? Chioma Nnadi: I'll take you there after this. Chloe Malle: Take me. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Virginia Smith: The fitting room is equal to the size of a small studio apartment in New York. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, yeah, it is. Virginia Smith: They're amazing. Chioma Nnadi: It's bigger than my apartment. Chloe Malle: But for clarity, I feel like people are always saying to me, "Oh, can you just go borrow a dress in the closet?" I'm like, "Ah, good grief." Virginia Smith: No. Chioma Nnadi: No. Virginia Smith: No, you can't do that. Chloe Malle: There's no clothes in the closet unless they're for a shoot. Virginia Smith: Yeah, there's clothes that are for shoots, but we don't just, like, take things out for a spin because- Chloe Malle: But there are shoes- Chioma Nnadi: There's Spanx. [laughing] Virginia Smith: There are lots of shoes. Chloe Malle: There are... There are shoes, undergarments, hats, accessories. Chioma Nnadi: Under- undergarments. Virginia Smith: If you need Spanx for an event, I have definitely gone down to the closet and been like, "Help me out, guys." Chloe Malle: Yeah. Virginia Smith: I need some to smooth out. Chloe Malle: So there's like, some... I would say bench Monolos, like Monolos that are just waiting to be put in service? Virginia Smith: We have a little Monolo secret closet. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Virginia Smith: It's locked up for special purposes. Chloe Malle: Oh, it's under lock and key? Virginia Smith: It's under lock and key. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, I didn't know... I did not know. Actually, we should talk about the run throughs because the name sake of [inaudible 00:21:34] Chloe Malle: Oh, yeah. I know, you sort of stole [inaudible 00:21:35] Chioma Nnadi: We stole it... We stole it from you. We do 'cause we-... Neither... I've never... I think... I don't think... I've witnessed a run through, but I've actually never, like, had to lead a run through. Chloe Malle: God, no. [laughing] Chioma Nnadi: Woo. Virginia Smith: So the run through is what we call the process of when we show Anna the clothes, so what typically happens is that once we decided on a story, we'll... What we do are called pool boards, and what that means is that we make digital boards of all the looks that we're planning to use for that story. Chloe Malle: And is it you and your team making it, or is it the stylist first making it? Virginia Smith: It's sort of a combination, to be honest. Chloe Malle: Okay. Virginia Smith: So, we show those to Anna, and usually our creative director, and a group of people, just to sort of say, "This is the idea, this is the vibe of the story." So everyone's sort of in the loop. And then once that sign off happens, we actually start calling in the clothes, and we do that, um, a few days before the shoot, so we can all, you know, see, like, "Ooh, that was a surprise. That didn't lo- look exactly the same in real life, but we put the story together on the rack, and that's with the sittings editor, and then whoever that is, and myself, go in for the... What, the run through, the infamous run through, and that's when we really go through the looks with Anna, and then we'll talk about- Chloe Malle: And it's in her office? Virginia Smith: It's in her office. It's... You know, we're rolling the rack in her office, unless it's a huge thing, and then she will come down to the closet, but usually, we- we're rolling a rack into her office, and we just go through it, and we... And then we'll talk about the location, and anything else sort of pertinent to the shoot, and, you know, that's it. And then hopefully, you know, she gives it her approval and we're done. If, if, you know, there have been times, particularly in the past where we got sent out to, you know, begin again. Chloe Malle: Oh my God. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, no. Virginia Smith: Or, "We can do better. We can do better." Chloe Malle: What are some memorable cover shoot stories, or moments- Chioma Nnadi: Yes, give us some fun ones. Chloe Malle: Or any dramas of having to- Virginia Smith: Oh, God. [laughing] Chloe Malle: Airlift a sequin in. Virginia Smith: The most memorable shoot recently is probably Rihanna- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, yeah. Oh, that one was m-... Was- Virginia Smith: The Rihanna shoot, which, Chioma [inaudible 00:23:39] Chioma Nnadi: I was in the basement. I was in the basement. [laughs] Chloe Malle: That's one of my favorite Vogue.com videos- Virginia Smith: It was so good. Chloe Malle: Is when she tells Annie... What does she say? Bitch loves a balcony. She's like, I mean, Alex- Chioma Nnadi: It was epic. Virginia Smith: I remember we had our big meeting in Paris the next morning. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, yeah. Chloe Malle: This was the Rihanna cover shoot pregnant, at the Ritz in Paris- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Chioma wrote the story- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Virginia provided the clothes for the story. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Virginia Smith: Yes. And- Chloe Malle: Alex Herrington styled it. Virginia Smith: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: There were many custom. I mean, wasn't it all c- custom as well with all of it? I mean, um, because the Alaïa pieces were amazing. Chloe Malle: The Alaïa were incredible. I mean, they- Chioma Nnadi: Just looking at them standing up. Virginia Smith: It was amazing, they were like, molded, and, and really beautifully done. And, you know, we, we found out very close to, um, that shoot day that, that she was pregnant, [laughs] so we had to sort of regroup. And that shoot had gotten delayed a few times, so- Chloe Malle: Wait, I'm sorry. You already had pulled the clothes, thinking she wasn't pregnant? Virginia Smith: Yes, it was happening. Chloe Malle: Oh my God. Virginia Smith: At one point, it was happening in, like, December, and then that- Chioma Nnadi: In Barbados. Virginia Smith: Yeah, in Barbados- Chloe Malle: Oh, right. Virginia Smith: And then it got moved. I think it was in LA for a moment. Chioma Nnadi: Because of COVID, COVID. Yeah. Virginia Smith: And then finally, it ended up in Paris, but by that time- Chioma Nnadi: Which is [inaudible 00:24:43] divine timing, 'cause it was perfect. Virginia Smith: It was amazing. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. And she was just in at the peak of her, like, pregnancy glow. It was perfect. Chloe Malle: Okay, I have an important question, 'cause you also dress many people for the Met, many people for the Tony's, anyone for like, a special event who's a FOA, Friend of Anna, what is the best gift, or what are some of the best gifts you've gotten as thank you's? 'Cause I think many people to do not thank you at all, but some people are surprising and send nice gifts, right? Virginia Smith: Flowers are the... Are the nicest gift I've gotten, and, you know, a lot of people really don't acknowledge the effort, so it's really nice when someone does. And you know what? Amy Schumer sent us chicken wings for her cover once. Chloe Malle: Oh, that's kind of fun. Virginia Smith: I was like, yes. [laughing] Down for the chicken wings. Chioma Nnadi: Hilarious. Virginia Smith: Anna was horrified. Chioma Nnadi: Hilarious. [laughing] Of course she sent chicken wings. Chloe Malle: Well, let's end on chicken wings. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. [laughing] Thank you for joining us [inaudible 00:25:35] Chloe Malle: Thank you for the [inaudible 00:25:35] Virginia. Chioma Nnadi: This was really fun. Virginia Smith: Bye. Chioma Nnadi: This is the Run-Through. We'll be back in just a moment. Chloe Malle: And we're back with the Run-Through with Vogue. Chioma Nnadi: I can't believe it's been over a year since the Russian invasion of, of Ukraine. Chloe Malle: I know, we spoke to Svetlana Bevza, who's the founder and creator of the Ukrainian, uh, fashion brand, Bevza, and we talked to her right at almost the anniversary, and it's- Chioma Nnadi: Mm. She'd recently moved back to, to [inaudible 00:26:21] Chloe Malle: She and her two young kids evacuated to Poland, and then they ended up in Portugal for awhile, but her husband's been fighting on the front lines for- Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Chloe Malle: You know, the past 12 months. Um, so it, it was really interesting to hear what her day to day life is, and what I found most interesting was how in some ways, things are very much the same. Her kids are going to school, she's going to the office every day, but in other ways, it's extremely different. Yeah, her husband's been drafted into the military. He's been serving his duty for the last 12 months, so there's been some real uncertainty, and ups and downs with that. There's electricity shortages, her line of production has been completely disrupted because a lot of her stuff was made in Ukraine. It's really interesting to hear what Kyiv life is like during war time. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Svetlana: Hello. Chloe Malle: Hi. Svetlana: How are you? Chloe Malle: I'm good. Chioma Nnadi: Where are you, Svetlana? Svetlana: I'm in Kyiv now. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, you're in Kyiv? Chloe Malle: Oh, you are. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Svetlana: Yeah. I'm in the office. Chioma Nnadi: You still have headquarters in, in Kyiv? Svetlana: Yes, we do. We just closed for first, uh, one and half months since war started, but then reopened. Chloe Malle: Wow. Svetlana: Yeah. Chloe Malle: You and your kids went to Portugal for a little bit, now you're back. Will you tell us sort of what your trajectory has been over the last year? Svetlana: Well, we left Ukraine, uh, with the kids, uh, after a week of, uh... From [inaudible 00:27:48] after- Chloe Malle: And how did you leave? Svetlana: It took 24 hours on a bus to the... To get to the border of Ukraine. It usually takes around, uh, seven hours, but everything was blocked, so, yeah. We spent 24 hours there, and then by car. We left, uh, the border... Through the border, and then reached to Portugal. Chloe Malle: Sorry, you went to what border, with Poland, and Czechoslovakia? Svetlana: Poland. Poland. Chioma Nnadi: Okay. And I should say thank you so much because you were the reason that my cousin was able to get safely out of- Svetlana: Oh, wow. I remember the situation- Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Yeah. Chloe Malle: Now, will you tell us the story, Chioma? Chioma Nnadi: It was like Svetlana was our fairy godmother. So, my cousin study-... Was studying medicine in the Ukraine, so he traveled up to the Polish border, but he was having trouble getting a, a hotel to stay. And, and, and Liana, who is, um, a former... A former Vogue writer who- who's covered many, many designers in, in, um... In the Ukraine, and, and travel to the Ukraine often, and is a good friend of yours, Svetlana. She put... She put out a message on Instagram saying that my cousin was stranded, and needed a place to stay, um, and they turned him away because they were turning away a lot of African students. It was just... It was racism, ultimately, and Svetlana was able to call the hotel and persuade them to take my cousin in. Chloe Malle: Wow. Svetlana: I just called to the hotel, and, uh, told them, like, "Everything is fine, just give this boy a room. Uh, he needs to spend the night in the hotel." So, the- they were just afraid. Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Svetlana: They didn't know what to expect from anywhere Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Svetlana: I mean, all, all Ukraine, we were all terrified during the first months. Uh, our team was hiding in basements, somebody left, uh, the country, um, within the first week. Uh, and we had a chat... We still have it, and it's called, "Are you okay? Are you safe?" So- Chloe Malle: Wow. Svetlana: Basically, that was our conversation during the first months of war because we couldn't understand what can happen tomorrow. I left to Portugal because, uh, there are a lot of production [inaudible 00:30:05] Chloe Malle: Oh, interesting. Svetlana: So, yeah, to check maybe to relocate, uh, our office, our team there. But it never happened, actually because what I, uh... It was my big surprise, actually. A lot of people, producers from here and from my team, they told me that they don't want to leave the country. Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Svetlana: Not everybody wanted to leave the country. Uh, yes, probably those people with, uh, small kids wanted to secure, and, uh, moved to the... Somebody moved to the western part of, uh, Ukraine, somebody moved to Poland because it's nearby. But not everybody, and what a trend I see now, that a lot of people coming back to Ukraine, actually. Chloe Malle: Interesting. After how long, like, they're coming back in the last few months, or they came back, you know, six months ago, or soon after everything happened? Svetlana: Actually, I think it started on the fourth or fifth month, uh, of war. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. What does your life look now, like, what... Since you've gotten back to... You know, I know you're, you're showing in Paris. You were able to produce, and, and your team is back together. Wh- what- what's your day to day been like since you've been back in Kyiv? Svetlana: Well, uh, the same. Only, uh, you know, when there is sirens, we hear it very often in the office. First months, we used to hide in the corridor just for security, and now we don't... I don't think if it's good or bad, but we don't pay much atte-... Attention to that. That- that's the reality. I wouldn't wish to anybody, uh, to experience things like that, and I never thought that I could witness war in my life. But, uh, I think it saves my, my emotional state to go on. And the same is with the team because if stay home and do nothing, um, it's much harder to [inaudible 00:32:04] Chloe Malle: And you have two young kids, correct? Svetlana: Yes. I have a son, um, Mark, he's eight. He will [inaudible 00:32:13] and Anna, my daughter, is four years old. Chloe Malle: And are they... Is school back in session? Do you feel safe having... Leaving them at school all day? Svetlana: Actually, daughter stays at home, and Mark, uh, he goes to school, and they have this basement, uh, which is very well equipped, I checked it. And, um, every time when there are sirens, they go down there, and continue, uh, their school day, school program. Chioma Nnadi: Obviously this, this upheaval must... You know, I can't imagine what it must... You know, how it affects your day to day life, and how it affects, you know, how you view the world. I'm wondering how this is informing the way that you work as a designer because I think... I know that you've always included, you know, Ukrainian imagery, or references- Svetlana: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: And that's been important. You know, being a Ukrainian brand is something that you're very obviously proud of, and it's part of, of who you are as a designer. How does... How does an experience like this inform how you create? Svetlana: I'm very proud of my team, actually, because I was in Portugal, and, uh, while doing the Spring/Summer collection, the production team [inaudible 00:33:29] they were here, and we managed to do this online, everything online. So, I just sent them sketches, and, uh, I went back to Ukraine in August, just to shoot the final look book. And, you know, the meanings, the codes, which, uh, are the part of storytelling about Ukraine. Uh, we used them multiple times during the seasons because, um, I see fashion as a very strong voice, and, uh, that is why we dedicated this collection, of course, to Ukraine. I didn't think I would [inaudible 00:34:04] our efforts is to tell the story, and to show that Ukraine, it's a very rich culture, actually. Chloe Malle: You were talking about how a lot of your motifs, uh, reference Ukrainian sensibilities and symbols. I love your wheat chaff necklaces and earrings, but can you just describe those to people who haven't seen them? Svetlana: So, basically the main symbol, the spy glass that we launched, uh, in 2019, um, is just earrings and necklaces, and they look like a spy glass, and it's the main symbol of our fertile land, and the bread itself is a scared thing, and grain. And during, um, centuries... Through the centuries, and there are a lot of traditions. When you get married, getting married, you always do it with bread. When you go to meet somebody important, you always bring bread. So, bread saves lives, and, uh, [inaudible 00:35:04] our country survived, came through this [inaudible 00:35:10] Chioma Nnadi: Where are all of your pieces produced, manufactured, or is it all made in, in Ukraine? Svetlana: Yes, basically. 90% [inaudible 00:35:18] Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Svetlana: 100% were produced in Ukraine before the war. Chioma Nnadi: Tell me a bit about your... You know, how you came to fashion, how you fell in love with fashion. Svetlana: It was from the very, very early childhood. My mom remembers when I was around five, I brought her a sketch. I still have it, actually. Um, and, uh, there was... There were two buildings, and I told her that it's fashion houses because I literally thought that fashion house is a building, it's a house. [laughing] And so, in that house, there were dressing rooms. [inaudible 00:35:58] so people, uh, girls only had to sleep there, and dress there, and, uh, go to [inaudible 00:36:05] Chloe Malle: It sounds like a, a dream. Chioma Nnadi: I, I want to... I want to live in a fashion house. Chloe Malle: You do, don't worry. [laughing] Svetlana: [inaudible 00:36:10] and I told my mom I want a fashion house. Chioma Nnadi: Aw. Svetlana: I loved to, to draw sketches, but mainly, mainly dresses, so that's how it just happened, and but then I grew up, I didn't know where to study. So, I was advised by my parents to get a normal education, as they said. Uh, yeah. I'm an economist, basically. Um- Chioma Nnadi: You studied economics? Svetlana: Yeah, I did. Chioma Nnadi: Interesting. Okay, well that's helpful, probably, for owning a brand. Svetlana: I remember nothing from there. [laughing] [inaudible 00:36:49] Chioma Nnadi: Never mind. Svetlana: [inaudible 00:36:53] in Kyiv, and it was a bet with my friends. I told her that I will do my collection in 60 days, and she was hired, uh, on a new job, and she also had 60 days to launch a big project. The, the [inaudible 00:37:13] was a bottle of champagne. Uh, we both won, so we had the champagne together. Chioma Nnadi: When you grew up, what, what access to fashion, or fashion media did you have, 'cause I imagine growing up in, in U-... Did you grow up in Kyiv? Svetlana: Yes, I grew up in Kyiv. Um, there is some- Chioma Nnadi: Was it magazines, or was it... I mean- Svetlana: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: TV, or what was your kind of... What were your first impressions, and what were- Chloe Malle: Your fashion diet. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, what were you... What were you looking at? Svetlana: When I was a kid, I remember the catalog [inaudible 00:37:44] [laughing] No Vogue magazines. First, first I heard, uh, the word Vogue, um, my mom's friend, and, uh, she had a pack of cigarettes, Vogue. And I was studying in, uh, English in school, so I read, like, it should be in English, I read vogue. [laughing] And she's like, "No, you have to read it Vogue." And I asked her, what does it mean? I was around 10 or 12. Uh, so she explained to me that Vogue is fashion. That's how I know this word, so- Chloe Malle: Oh my God, I love it. [laughing] Well, Svetlana, we just wanted to say good bye and to thank you. Um- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, thank you so much for doing this. Chloe Malle: But it's been such a treat to talk to you, and, and we're thinking about you and your family, and- Svetlana: Uh, it's a huge honor for me because when I think of, "Oh my God, a Vogue podcast." Let me not just think about that because I would get too nervous. So, [inaudible 00:38:47] thinking of a pleasant conversation with, with, with the smart ladies. That's how. Chioma Nnadi: It was a really conversation, and we're, we're so happy you were to able to join us. Svetlana: Thank you. Chloe Malle: All right, thank you so much. Bye. Chioma Nnadi: Bye. Virginia Smith: Bye bye, bye. Chioma Nnadi: The Run-Through is a production of Conde Nast Entertainment. I'm Chioma Nnadi- Chloe Malle: And I'm Chloe Malle, that's it for the Run-Through this week. We'll be back in two weeks. Chioma Nnadi: Bye.