Chloe Malle: This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Malle. Chioma Nnadi: And I'm Chioma Nnadi. Well, we have a very exciting guest on our show. Chloe Malle: This is a big deal. Chioma Nnadi: This is a big deal. Chloe Malle: We have Demna- Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: And- Chioma Nnadi: First name, only. Chloe Malle: First name, only. A mononym wonder. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: And- Chioma Nnadi: Designer of Balenciaga. Creative Director of Balenciaga. Chloe Malle: And, he's coming up on the second half of the show. He does not do a lot of interviews, so- Chioma Nnadi: No. Chloe Malle: This is one, to stick around for. But first, Ally and Mark, can you guys introduce yourselves? Mark Colgate: I'm Mark Colgate, the Fashion Features Director of America Vogue. I hesitated there, because they changed my title recently. Allie Michler Kopelman: Um, I'm Allie Michler Kopelman, I'm Director of Fashion Initiatives. Chloe Malle: Okay, what does that mean, Ally, because it's a little opaque. Allie Michler Kopelman: So, um, I work on a lot of special fashion projects that we have here at Vogue, one of which is the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund. Chioma Nnadi: Right, and I think, if you could explain a little about what the C-, the CVFF, is. Allie Michler Kopelman: Sure. So, the CFDA, is the Council of Fashion Designers of America. It's a not for profit organization, dedicated to fostering American designers in a global economy. Um, there's also a membership program, consisting of over 450, ready to wear accessories and jewelry designers. And, they operate separately from us, but they... we work in tandem with them on the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund. Chloe Malle: So when people talk, it sort of, sometimes can be confusing with acronyms. CFDA, is Council Fashion Centers for America. Allie Michler Kopelman: Right. Chloe Malle: CVFF- Allie Michler Kopelman: Is the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fun- Chloe Malle: CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund. Allie Michler Kopelman: Exactly. Chloe Malle: It's, sort of- Allie Michler Kopelman: And that's, like a program that we work on with them, that's, you know, a joint venture. Chioma Nnadi: And how long has it been going? Allie Michler Kopelman: Well, it was established after 9/11. Mark Colgate: Hm. Allie Michler Kopelman: Um, really, since 2003, to help emerging designers cultivate the next generation of American fashion talent. Um, since its inception, the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund format, has kinda of, shifted to align with our ever-changing world and industry. So, in 2020, the fashion fund was, actually adapted into a grant program, known, as A Common Thread, to address the urgent need to support American fashion brands impacted by COVID, but its historically been a competition, and we're returning to that format this year, which is very exciting. So, we've accepted 10 finalists, and we will ultimately award one winner, with $300,000 and two runners-up for $100,000. Mark Colgate: And that's- Chioma Nnadi: That's a nice chunk of change. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Mark Colgate: Yeah. It's good. It's good. It's funny, because it- Allie Michler Kopelman: [laughing]. Mark Colgate: ... it started. Chloe Malle: It sure is. Allie Michler Kopelman: [laughing]. Mark Colgate: It started, I think, I think we st-... I remember having... I started at Vogue in December 2003, and I remember that was, that program launched, uh, I think, kind of around the same time. Because we had done it before- Chloe Malle: Who were the first winners, Mark? Mark Colgate: Uh, Proenza Schouler. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Mark Colgate: Jacquelyn, Jacquelyn Lazaro. Chloe Malle: Mm- Mark Colgate: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Mark Colgate: Yeah, it's- Chloe Malle: Who are some examples of fashion funder veterans, or graduates, who we would all think of now, and be like, oh! Allie Michler Kopelman: Rodarte- Chloe Malle: Mm. Allie Michler Kopelman: Tal Afar- Mark Colgate: Tom Brown. Chloe Malle: Mm. Allie Michler Kopelman: Tom Brown. Mark Colgate: Who's, now- Allie Michler Kopelman: Christopher John Rogers. Chloe Malle: Mm. Mark Colgate: Yeah. Tom's on the committee, now. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Allie Michler Kopelman: Emily Bode, won. Mark Colgate: Emily Bode- Chloe Malle: Emily Bode- Mark Colgate: She's a runner-up. Allie Michler Kopelman: Aurora James- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Allie Michler Kopelman: Who's also on the committee. Mark Colgate: Yes. Allie Michler Kopelman: Uh- Chloe Malle: Joe Zavalta Zara. Allie Michler Kopelman: Yes. Mark Colgate: Joe Zavalta's our famous, uh, yes, showman- Chloe Malle: So, the 10 finalists- Mark Colgate: ... and I think the 10th finalist. Chloe Malle: ... are decided, but then, is it the still the case, that in November, one winner and two runners-up, will be announced? Mark Colgate: Uh, no. Chloe Malle: Oh. Mark Colgate: We have a little surprise- Chloe Malle: Oh! Mark Colgate: Which, I actually, can't talk about. Chloe Malle: We love surprises. Mark Colgate: We ca-... I can't talk about it. Chloe Malle: Oh. Mark Colgate: It's not been announced yet. But, it will be out in the coming weeks. Uh, we will be announcing, uh, the winners, some time in October. Chloe Malle: Oh. Mark Colgate: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: Hm. So, no- Allie Michler Kopelman: But Chloe, you're right, in that there will be one winner and two runners-up. Chloe Malle: Okay. All right. Allie Michler Kopelman: Which is very exciting. Chloe Malle: Why should people be excited about this? Is this, like, a fun way to watch the future of the fashion? Is this just, uh, like, a reality show, fight to the death? Like, wh- what, what should people be engaged? Why should, uh, listeners be engaged with this? Mark Colgate: I mean, I think we've had some incredible, kind of, talents come out of the fund. And I, I just think, at the end of the day, it's, it's, a kind of, really great track record. Um, we've had some, really terrific people come through the fund. And, um, I, I think if you care about fashion, you kinda, care about who's coming up next, and where they're coming from. And I think what's been really great about the fund, in recent times, is how many of the designers have challenged the idea of what success looks like, or what it means to be successful, or how they can run their businesses. You... and can some, like, [inaudible 00:04:28], is amazing shows. Or, yeah- Chloe Malle: Mm. Mark Colgate: Christopher John Rogers, who's thinking about, you know, I want to share this, this time of the year, rather than stick to the usual fashion week. I don't know, I think it's just, um- Chloe Malle: Shaking things up a bit. Mark Colgate: Yeah. Allie Michler Kopelman: Yeah, redefining- Mark Colgate: Uh, yeah. Allie Michler Kopelman: ... and what it looks like to be a brand. Chloe Malle: Chioma, you're on the judging panel, as well. Chioma Nnadi: I am. I am on the judging panel. Chloe Malle: Are all three of you on the judging panel? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, we spent- Allie Michler Kopelman: No, I'm- Chioma Nnadi: No. Allie Michler Kopelman: I'm- Chloe Malle: Oh, you're like the- Allie Michler Kopelman: [inaudible 00:04:46]- Chloe Malle: ... ring leader. Allie Michler Kopelman: Exactly. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: You're the ring leader- Chioma Nnadi: Slash- Chloe Malle: ... of the circus. Chioma Nnadi: Slash, den mother- Mark Colgate: Consigliere, I think- Chioma Nnadi: ... for all of the designers. Allie Michler Kopelman: Yes. [laughs]. Mark Colgate: Yes, yes. Chloe Malle: I mean, I don't want you to have to single anyone out, but was there any moment that you loved, or you thought, this is what makes... this is the next exciting competition? This, one garment, was thrilling to me, this, one thing, that one finalist said, was really resonated? Chioma Nnadi: I think it's... I'm always interested, because there's so many different prospective of, at the table. You know, you've got, editors, like, you know, Mark and myself. And, you've got designers, like Tom Brown and, um, you know, Steven, who oversees the CFDAs, so- Chloe Malle: Cole- Chioma Nnadi: Cole, my bad. Um, Roopal Patel, at Saks, from a, from a buyer's prospective. So you've got that retail prospective. So it's interesting to see, who everybody... And also, Paloma Elsesser- Mark Colgate: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: ... who's a model, who's wearing the clothes, and also who's buying the clothes, because she has such great taste. So, I'm always interested to just, hear everyone else's- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... everyone else's opinions. And it gets very lively, and people have their favorites. Chloe Malle: Does it get heated? Chioma Nnadi: It does get heated. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: It does it get heated. Do you know it's two hours, and we, we thrasher out, and I think, you know- Chloe Malle: Because, how many are you deciding from? Allie Michler Kopelman: It's a good- Mark Colgate: Uh- Allie Michler Kopelman: ... 56. Mark Colgate: We have 50, 56, six. Yeah. Yeah. Chloe Malle: Oh my, you only have two hours, to whittle it down from 56 to 10? Allie Michler Kopelman: Well, we receive hundreds applicants- Mark Colgate: Oh, well we're experts, Chloe. Allie Michler Kopelman: ... at first. Chloe Malle: Of course. [laughs]. Mark Colgate: We're, we're professionals. We know what we're doing. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Allie Michler Kopelman: There's two phases. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Allie Michler Kopelman: There's the first phase, and then there's the second phase. So this was from the second phase, of 56. Chloe Malle: Ah! Good grief, you must be exhausted. Chioma Nnadi: It was quite tiring. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Mark Colgate: I needed to lie down afterwards. Chloe Malle: [laughing]. Mark Colgate: Fashion's hard work. Chloe Malle: Can you just, each, give me one of the 10 finalists, that you are particularly excited about? Mark Colgate: Silence. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: What do we think? Allie Michler Kopelman: I can say whose portfolio, I- Chloe Malle: Yes! Allie Michler Kopelman: ... I really liked. I loved Tanner Fletcher's portfolio. Chloe Malle: Tell me about Tanner. Allie Michler Kopelman: That, it was really charming. It had this beautiful fabric on both sides, that was, like, one of the suits they had made for Bad Bunny, recently. Chloe Malle: Hm. Allie Michler Kopelman: And then, they're... They also do a intro video, kind of, introducing themselves and their brand, and that was really charming. Chioma Nnadi: I really liked, um, this brand called Diotima, a designer called Rachel Scott. She's, um, Jamaican-born, and she, um, she works with crossover, and in Jamaica, to create these really beautiful, um, crochet pieces that she integrates into her tailoring. And I've always wanted to, to sort of, own her clothes. And, I just really appreciate what she's doing in her work. So it's very exciting to see her make the cut. Chloe Malle: Mark? Mark Colgate: Well, there were several, actually. I mean, I have to say, what was interesting was, um, I, I had... uh, I, I discovered a designer or two, that I didn't really know very much about. Like, uh, uh, the Forest Designs, uh, kind of men's wear, label, uh, with a chap, with a very interesting, kind of, back story. Um, I loved him- Chloe Malle: Forest? Mark Colgate: Forest Designs. Yeah. Chloe Malle: Okay. Mark Colgate: The show's, kinda, very interested in his back story, and what he was, kind of, doing. One of the other judges, had presented his work. Because, usually what happens, is we all get assigned a certain amount of applicants. And then, we present the ones that we feel are strongest, but that doesn't mean that other people can't be brought up into the conversation. Someone else will say, oh, but what about so-and-so, I really love X, or I really love Y. But, sometimes you hear about designers that, you know, we know a lot of the people, right. I mean, we, we follow our fashion world, very, very closely, in America, but we don't, everyone. So, I just got interested to hear about this guy. I didn't know very much about him. Chloe Malle: Great. Mark Colgate: I mean, I think, you know, it's, it's... You know, I mean, we've g-, each, have mentioned one person, that we just w-, you know, whether we, actually perhaps, presented, their, their work, or they connected with us in some way. We just, we, we, you know, we're aware of them. But it's, obviously, we have 10 finalists and, you know, we spend the next few months getting to know them. And sometimes, where you think you're gonna start, is not where you end up, and it's just, it's a really interesting process. It... We get to know them, they get to know us. Um, uh, but nothing is decided. It's... We have those 10, and I'm really excited about, this year. I think it's a great group. Allie Michler Kopelman: What I think is so great about the fashion fund, is that it becomes a community. Mark Colgate: Mm-hmm. Allie Michler Kopelman: And, the designers help each other. You're, really in the CFDA, and Vogue family, from here on out. And it's just a great supportive network. Chloe Malle: Uh, speaking of community, this is the time of year when, uh, a c- certain small community, travels from show to show, to show, around the globe, for different resort shows, and your Instagram is flooded with people in Sol or in Los Angeles, or in Mexico. For, the people who don't know, why are all these fashion houses, hosting shows all around the globe, at much fanfare and expense? Mark Colgate: Um, well, I mean, look, obviously, the whole notion of what used to be called, cruise collections, is, is a kind of, old-fashioned term, from, that came from this idea, of like, clothes that appeared in the dead of winter, and people were thinking of going away for the Summer, or, or not for the Summer, for, for somewhere, warm, I should say, uh, in January, whatever, February, uh, around the holiday time. And then, that morphed as, you know, I think people just seemed to want to buy more clothes, more times around the year, into, into what became, called the resort collections. And of course, we added pre-Fall, and at one point we had, that, like, we were seeing fashion four times a year. But, in terms of what you're asking, I mean, I, I, I think it's probably two things. I think, o- one thing, is that, designers love to travel, right. And you look someone like, John Galliano, he, he... a lot of his inspiration was collections in the past. He would go to, kind of, far-flung destinations and create these incredible inspiration books. So, it's, it's also that idea that, you know, it's, it's a way of, uh, recognizing and honoring, and celebrating, parts, parts of the world that, you know, fashion has tended to, kind of, ignore, by not, thought, as much, about, you know. Chloe Malle: Do we s-, do we hear from brands, that like... Are they, actually, successful in cornering these new markets? Or is it more of... I feel like, for Chanel, it's often, it's such a successful PR- Mark Colgate: I think, they keep do-... I guess they keep... Right. Chloe Malle: ... gambit. No? Allie Michler Kopelman: I feel like it's a big social media push, too. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Right. Like, did this exist before Instagram? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, because this is hundred years ago. Mark Colgate: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: A traveling circus? [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: No. But the concept of cruise, right. It goes back to... I mean, didn't, like, Coco Chanel, release the first cruise collection? Chloe Malle: Because everyone was going to Biarritz? Chioma Nnadi: Well, yeah. She was inspired by the women who'd, who, who holidayed in Biarritz. Chloe Malle: It's for people who, vacation is a verb. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Um, okay. Chioma Nnadi: Exactly. [laughs]. I guess, we want to know what the big shows are, coming up. Mark Colgate: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: What are the big shows, coming? I mean- Mark Colgate: Well, I mean, you sh- Chioma Nnadi: This weekend, you're going to- Mark Colgate: I'm going to go to Mexico City for Maria Grazia Chiuri's Dior show. And then, I think, L- Louis Vuitton is gonna show their resort, in- Allie Michler Kopelman: Como. Mark Colgate: Como. Chloe Malle: Lake Maggiore. Mark Colgate: And then, uh, Max Mara, is also showing their resort in, I believe, Stockholm. Chloe Malle: Ooh, that sounds fun. Mark Colgate: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Imagine- Mark Colgate: The last Stockholm- Chioma Nnadi: ... how many air miles you would get, if you did all of them. Chloe Malle: Oh, well don't worry- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: I feel like there's plenty of people who are- Mark Colgate: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... wracking up those- Allie Michler Kopelman: [inaudible 00:11:36], by their dumb [inaudible 00:11:36]. Chioma Nnadi: Frequent flyers. Allie Michler Kopelman: [laughs]. Um, the Cannes Film Festival, also kicked off this week. Which is always, I have to say my favorite Red Carpet. Much more so, than any of the award season. Mark Colgate: Why is that [inaudible 00:11:46]? Allie Michler Kopelman: People go- Chloe Malle: Because it's fun! Chioma Nnadi: I prefer it. Mark Colgate: Okay. Allie Michler Kopelman: Yeah. Chloe Malle: People go all out. Chioma Nnadi: What are your favorites? Chloe Malle: Wear their outfits, people loved? Chioma Nnadi: I mean, loved, loved, uh, um, Elle Fanning. I thought she looked amazing in that- Chloe Malle: And, Alexander McQueen. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. In that wonderful-ful, dress. Um- Chloe Malle: I'd say, my favorite thing about Cannes, is always... it's like, one little airport. And there's just a [inaudible 00:12:06] of paparazzi camped out there. And so, you get great, airport-style. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Iris Law looked great, in this little mini skirt, in a, sort of, Brigitte Bardot- Allie Michler Kopelman: She has great style. I always think the models look good. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, the models... I mean, Bella, ah, famously, has... I don't know if you'll see sightings of her this year, but she's been the queen of Cannes in past years. Chloe Malle: I mean- Mark Colgate: Doing Schiaparelli, right? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Mark Colgate: The black, with that, kind of, incredible- Allie Michler Kopelman: Yeah, that was amazing. Chloe Malle: The queen of Cannes- Mark Colgate: It was amazing- Chloe Malle: ... is a bit much- Mark Colgate: It's interesting. Chloe Malle: But, okay. [laughing]. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, and we've got to mention, um, Helen Mirren, and her hair transformation. Chloe Malle: Oh yeah, she has blue hair! Chioma Nnadi: She has blue hair. You know, and I think- Chloe Malle: It matches her dress. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. We thought that was great, because you always think of, you know, when you think of older women having this violet hair, it has, is, there's certain cliches attached to that hairstyle. And, I think she just looked amazing. It was a little bit punk. It was not, not expected, at all. Chloe Malle: No, she looked fabulous. Chioma Nnadi: And she looked fab. Chloe Malle: Um, Chioma, were you excited that a certain baby name was revealed this week? Chioma Nnadi: Oh my God, of course, of course. RZA, um, so, we were following- Chloe Malle: Okay, by the way, I'm so old- Chioma Nnadi: I've been following, this- Chloe Malle: ... and so White, that I saw it, I was, like, RZA! Chioma Nnadi: [laughing]. So, everybody had been wondering what Rihanna and, um, A$AP Rocky's baby's name, actually was. And I think they kept it a secret for a g-, a whole year, actually. And I think, over the weekend, it was, it was Baby RZA's birthday- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: And, somehow, I think the Daily Mail or Backgrid, or one... somebody got ahold of the birth certificate and revealed that- Chloe Malle: What! Chioma Nnadi: ... RZA was, was the baby's name. Chloe Malle: Oh, it was leaked? Chioma Nnadi: It was leaked. Chloe Malle: Oh, that's so sad. Chioma Nnadi: But then, on RZA's first birthday, they, they had a, a big party and, really leaned in, to the fact that, you know, baby, baby RZA is named after, possibly one of the greatest, you know, rap pioneers in the world. And had, you know, Rihanna dressed up as Ol' Dirty Bastard, who was a member of Wu-Tang. Um, a- Chloe Malle: So, they leaned into the leak. Chioma Nnadi: They leaned into it, and he had, he had this, like, special little mask, that's, that was a, the Wu-Tang logo. So, it was, it was really sweet. Don't you just love a, like, a three letter name? Like, Max, RZA, Sam? Chloe Malle: Okay, it's not like Max. Chioma Nnadi: [laughing]. Chloe Malle: Oh, no. Allie Michler Kopelman: I feel like she's about as pregnant, as I am, right? Maybe. Chioma Nnadi: Right. So she's about to have a- Allie Michler Kopelman: I could only hope. Chioma Nnadi: ... Gemini baby. Allie Michler Kopelman: I hope. [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Gemini baby, yeah. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Well, her baby... Baby RZA's a Taurus, so I'm very Team Taurus. I'm a Taurus, myself, so- Allie Michler Kopelman: Okay. Chloe Malle: Well, and you had your, Timothee- Chioma Nnadi: I did. I spoke to Timothee Chalamet. I wrote about Timothee Chalamet, for Vogue. I mean, there was so many rumors about this campaign that he was doing with Chanel, and some of it leaked. Allie Michler Kopelman: I mean, talk about a slow news day. But, okay. [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: No, but people were excited that he has this, I mean, yet, to be released, campaign with, um, with M- Martin Scorsese, and he was very excited to talk about, you know, working with Martin Scorsese. But, the campaign that was released, was, um, sh-, uh, Bleu de Chanel. So, it's a fragrance- Mark Colgate: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: A, a men's fragrance. And, um, so there were these campaign images f-, uh, shot by Mario Sorrenti. But, the big cam-, the big campaign with Martin Scorsese, this whole fashion film, ala, like, [inaudible 00:15:19] and then, Nicole Kidman, is coming out later. Allie Michler Kopelman: Yes. Chloe Malle: Was he everything you'd hoped he be, and more? Chioma Nnadi: So, I'm, I'm a, I'm a fan of his, but I'm not like, a stan, I, you know, I, I think he's an e- extremely talented. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. I like the distinction between fan v. stan. Allie Michler Kopelman: Me, too. [laughing]. Never heard it described, [laughs], that way. Mark Colgate: But, I- Chioma Nnadi: But, isn't like, stan, more of like a super fan? Chloe Malle: Totally! Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: And I like it, I just, it's- Chioma Nnadi: Okay. Chloe Malle: The distinction, is- Chioma Nnadi: A distinction, in my mind. Chloe Malle: Uh, yeah. [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Kind of, like, I'm, I'm a fan of his, in a like, loose way. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: But not, like, o- obsessive. So, I was in, you know, I was just expected to interview, him and just talk to him, as if he was a regular person. But, he is extremely charming. And, he has this way of, it's a classic, kind of, media training that you, ask the person a ton of questions, but because he's so, like, cute and charming, you so, obviously, just want to have a conversation with him and talk about yourself. And he's like, oh, so tell me, where did you grow up, and this and the other. And I just thought, this is a trap! Chloe Malle: That's some sneaky media thing- Chioma Nnadi: Wasting, wasting time. But, he, he, he's so charming, and he's so smart, and, uh- Chloe Malle: And, the hair is good. Chioma Nnadi: ... and the hair is good, and the style is good. And we talked a bit, about fashion. And he grew up going to Top Shop, I grew up going to Top Shop, so I felt a certain kinship. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: We, both wore women's clothing. I mean, what's not l- to love. Chloe Malle: We both wear women's clothing. [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, we talked about shopping in the women's department at Top Shop. Chloe Malle: Uh, who attended the sale of the century? Uh, me! [laughs]. Allie Michler Kopelman: Te-, um, tell us everything. Chloe Malle: I want to hear more, because I- Chioma Nnadi: So- Chloe Malle: I follow it, eagerly, on Instagram, but it sure as hell, wasn't Allie Michler Kopelman: Oh- Chioma Nnadi: We've [inaudible 00:16:49] lots of things. Chloe Malle: The lead, in line. Chioma Nnadi: No. So basically, um, uh, Chloe Sevigny's was selling of, al, all, her entire, kind of, archive, e- everything that's she had in st- in storage. And- Chloe Malle: For charity, or for Chloe? Chioma Nnadi: No, for Chloe. Chloe Malle: Okay. [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: So, and Lynn Yaeger and, contributing Vogue Editor, and Sally Singer, famous on fashion, were also involved, as was, um- Chloe Malle: Involved, in that they were also selling items? Chioma Nnadi: They were also- Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: ... and Mickey Boardman- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... formerly of Paper, RIP Paper, was also involved. So, it was kind of, this roster, of like, iconic style, New York style icons. Who were selling all of their clothing. And, Liana Satenstein, who used to work here, um- Chloe Malle: She wrangled the troops for this. Chioma Nnadi: She wrangled, she, she's famous for clearing out, you know, the world's most epic closets, including Chloe's. And then, Chloe and her, had this conversation and, and she, kind of, persuaded Chloe to part of it. And, you know, I, uh, i-, there was a lot of discussion, securing the exclusive. It was... people were buzzing about the sale- Chloe Malle: It's fascinating to me. Chioma Nnadi: ... weeks before. I mean, they just so happen- Chloe Malle: Do people still care about Chloe, that much? I mean, I, I love Chloe, but I'm of a certain age. Chioma Nnadi: Oh! Mark Colgate: Oh, well, she opened the Proenza Schouler Show, and looked incredible. And I think, every time you see, you're, you're always, kind of reminded by... she's, uh, she's a really good actress, and she's gonna be in the new Feuds. The new series of Feud- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Mark Colgate: ... plays, C.Z. Guest. Chloe Malle: No, I, I'm, I'm very, pro-Chloe. I... Just that the images, I saw- Chioma Nnadi: The younger kids in the line- Chloe Malle: ... were, it was like, 20 year olds. Mark Colgate: Let me tell you, it, I think, because she is... When you look at the way that, uh, Miu Miu has so, brilliantly, kind of, [inaudible 00:18:20], kind of, tapped into... you know, and if they can, in a modern forward way, but still, kind of, hotch back, a little bit, to when it first started in the '90s. And it was so great, you know, that, kinda, slightly, utilitarian battle, but off-kill, to where, in kind of, girly. She's a very, kind of, um... I'm probably, terrible at what this is, but, um, uh, eh, a- and some of these recent collections of, kind of, brought a little bit of that spirit back. And then, when you think about Chloe, in those campaigns, right. Then she did, this- Chioma Nnadi: And you think about Chloe, in Kids. I remember going to the movie theater- Mark Colgate: Yeah. Allie Michler Kopelman: Oh, me too. Mark Colgate: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... as a, very- Allie Michler Kopelman: Yeah. Like, it was super- Chioma Nnadi: ... like, teenager- Mark Colgate: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... and seeing her, and it was so impactful, that movie, just, was- Mark Colgate: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... so impactful- Mark Colgate: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: And I, and I- Allie Michler Kopelman: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... don't know whether the kids in line have seen, Kids. Chloe Malle: Right. Chioma Nnadi: Well, how they know... Because I was asking, you know, my colleagues, who are a little bit younger, like, how did you discover Chloe? How did you... Oh, I think I discovered here, through Pinterest. Chloe Malle: It was like, the grandma, at the sale. Like, I am- Chioma Nnadi: How did you... do you know about her? [laughing]. She's like, one of, like, she's... How did you know about her? Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: You know, and people say, maybe they discovered her through Pinterest, maybe g- Mark Colgate: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: You know, and I have a very, like, visceral memory, of going to see kids and being like, wow- Allie Michler Kopelman: I do, too- Chioma Nnadi: ... New York's the coolest place- Allie Michler Kopelman: That was- Mark Colgate: Yeah. Allie Michler Kopelman: I was, super- Chioma Nnadi: ... on the planet. Yeah, you know, just, you know, Allie Michler Kopelman: Impacted by the movie. Chloe Malle: I was the last days of disco, person- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Chloe Malle: ... persona, but yeah, okay. Mark Colgate: I love, love her in that. Allie Michler Kopelman: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: But yeah, that, the- Mark Colgate: She's so [inaudible 00:19:28]- Chioma Nnadi: ... the line, it was, they were so well-behaved. There was so many kids that, they all made friends- Allie Michler Kopelman: But truly, the sale started at noon, right? And people started lining up at 7:00 a.m. Chioma Nnadi: 6:00! And, and- Chloe Malle: That's crazy. Chioma Nnadi: I did not buy anything. Chloe Malle: You didn't? Mark Colgate: You didn't? Chioma Nnadi: No, I didn't. But, I, I get very rattled, in those situations. I tried to buy a scarf from, uh, colleague, Lynn Yaeger, and she, m- m- didn't want to sell it. Mark Colgate: The price was, the price was too high. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: She was like, I'll sell it to a friend, and- Allie Michler Kopelman: Oh my God, she's ridiculous. Chioma Nnadi: She just got- Mark Colgate: No, I think she [inaudible 00:19:55]- Chioma Nnadi: ... and then she got all in her head about it. Mark Colgate: I think- Chloe Malle: I think, she could. Mark Colgate: I think she could. Allie Michler Kopelman: [laughing]. Chioma Nnadi: She, just was like, oh, it's like, it's really cute. And she was, uh, maybe I need it. Allie Michler Kopelman: [laughing]. Chioma Nnadi: And it is, it was, like, oh my God, forget this. Mark Colgate: So then, it's funny- Chioma Nnadi: She's like- Mark Colgate: I mean, markets, also still have this incredible allure and power to draw is in, right. Because it's interesting, I was talking to the stylist, Yana [Labasi 00:20:10], this week, and she mentioned she was in London, and she mentioned she went to the Comme des Gracons, uh, Market Market, then she, Market Market, you know, which is their big, kind of incredible sale. And, um- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, we missed it. Mark Colgate: It was in London. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, okay. Mark Colgate: So- Chloe Malle: I've never heard of this before. Chioma Nnadi: Fair, fair. Mark Colgate: It's... uh- Chloe Malle: Who organized- Mark Colgate: I, I went to one in New York, it was amazing. Well first of all, I'm not good at trying on clothes in front of other people. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Mark Colgate: And that, kind of, begins fu-... [inaudible 00:20:30], I mean, and I mean, a coat. It's not like I'm taking my pants off, to try on a pair of jeans. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Mark Colgate: I'm, literally... I'm too shy, even to try on the coat. Allie Michler Kopelman: To put on a parka. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Mark Colgate: Yeah, really. Literally. I mean, is there a corner where I can go stand in? Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Mark Colgate: You got a curtain. I need... [laughs]. It's like, I'm so- Chloe Malle: I'm like, ripping my dress off. [laughs]. Mark Colgate: I'm so pathetic. Chioma Nnadi: You gotta get it down. You got to get down into it. By- Mark Colgate: Yeah, I'm so pathetic. But anyway, it's, it's interesting. But, yeah. And she did that, she said that she, uh, uh, had heard that they're gonna do a Market Market, in New York, later this year. Chloe Malle: Ooh. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, a scoop. Mark Colgate: So maybe, even I will- Chloe Malle: Stay tuned. Mark Colgate: ... I will get over my fear of- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Mark Colgate: ... putting on a jacket- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Mark Colgate: ... in front of people. [inaudible 00:21:09]. Chloe Malle: Thank you, both, so- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Thank you both, for so much fun. Allie Michler Kopelman: Thank you for having me, this- Mark Colgate: And it's been fun. Chloe Malle: So much fun. The Run Through, will be back in just a moment. Chioma Nnadi: And, we're back, with The Run Through. Chloe Malle: Chioma, I think this next interview was, especially exciting for you. Chioma Nnadi: Well yeah, I mean, it's a big deal for anyone who, who knows about fashion, who now, understands that, you know, the creative director of Balenciaga, Demna, is a huge deal. I- Chloe Malle: He's one of the, the biggest, m- most exciting names in fashion, right now, for sure. Chioma Nnadi: 100, 100%. He, also created Vetements. He also designed for Margiela and Louis Vuitton. Chloe Malle: And, for people who, as Chioma likes to say, have been living under a fashion rock. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Um, you've probably seen Demna Balenciaga. He goes from, highest conceptual to, low Pop, to... I mean, he really covers the cultural gambit in his shows and presentations. Uh, I, I've never been to a Balenciaga show. But Chioma, what have been some of your highlights of Balenciaga shows that you've gone to? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I mean there was the show that he did in New York, at the Wall Street, uh, Stock Exchange, which was really cool and really mesmerizing. Just to be in that building, was amazing. Chloe Malle: And that was, sort of, a send up of, capitalist culture. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, you know, I think Demna's always, kind of, interested in that tension between high and low culture. And he's not afraid to, yeah, engage with those, kind of socio-political beings. Chloe Malle: Any other show that you went to of Balenciaga, that sort of, peaks in your memory? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, there was that really beautiful snow globe show, where there was, actually, this amazing... How would I describe it? Like, this tundra, this huge globe, and there was the snow storm, within it. And the models were in- Chloe Malle: Were you in the globe, or? Chioma Nnadi: No. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: The, uh, oh, e- everybody was outside of the globe, but the models were in it. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Chioma Nnadi: And, and it was right about the same time, that the, that the war broke out in, in Ukraine. So it was a very em- emotional show. Chloe Malle: And Demna, as most people know, is from Georgia- Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: ... near, in the former Soviet Union. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. And he left... On, on, on each of our seats, there were these massive T-shirts that were in the colors of the Ukrainian flag, as a tribute. Chloe Malle: Right. Chioma Nnadi: Um, and there was personal tribute, and he spoke. There was a voiceover- Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: ... before the show started, that was, I think a Georgian poem, or... It was a very moving show. Chloe Malle: He's... I mean, he's always great at making big memorable moments- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... that, that translate onto social media, but also, really, are sort of, writ large on the cultural conversation. Chioma Nnadi: And the flip-side of that, he's also, he's... he- he also, when he wants to turn the volume down and have the focus be on the clothes, he knows how to do it. He, literally, did that with his first couture show, and showed- Chloe Malle: Oh right, there was no soundtrack, right. Chioma Nnadi: There was no soundtrack. It was, you know, in, in, in this very small, traditional couture, sort of, space. I remember in the pandemic, being shipped this virtual reality headset, you know, not knowing what the hell to do with it. But then, [laughs], putting it on and discovering that there was this Balenciaga show, inside my headset. And, being... walking around, wondering my apartment, chasing these models. It was- Chloe Malle: That's so fun. Chioma Nnadi: ... freaking amazing. Yeah, it was pretty fun. Chloe Malle: I love that. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. And, um, yeah, it, he knows, exactly when to turn the volume up and to blow something bit, but also, when to, like, really put a spotlight on the craft and the clothing. And I think he did that so well, with couture. Chloe Malle: One moment, when that maybe, was, not the way he planned, was with, to, add campaigns, this past- Chioma Nnadi: Right, right. Chloe Malle: ... uh, winter. Everyone has heard about this. But, there were two Balenciaga ad campaigns, that people reacted very strongly to. They accused, uh, the brand of supporting child pornography. Tucker Carlson got involved. It was a whole, sort of, media mess. However, Demna did the first interview, afterward, with Vogue, about it. And he addressed it, directly, and apologized for it. And it was, very delicately handled. Now, he's moving on, and Chioma and I were, sort of, saying, you know, we know so much about Demna, the myth maker- Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Chloe Malle: ... and the maestro behind this important fashion house. Who is Demna, the man? And what, what is... Who is Demna, off-duty? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: And, I think we really got that, he rarely does interviews, he's very shy, he doesn't like to be photographed. And, he came into the studio, the Tuesday, after the Met, and he was such a delight to be with, he was so charming. So, disarming, I found. So, we really, I feel like, lucked out and, and got a, a very nice, uh, facad of Demna, that you don't see every day. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I totally agree. I think it was... He was, just, completely himself, it felt like. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: You know? And, um, it was nice to have a conversation with him, on that level. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma wore Balenciaga. Chioma Nnadi: Of course. Chloe Malle: As you'll soon, hear. Chioma Nnadi: Hi, Demna. Demna: Hello. Chioma Nnadi: I'm actually wearing Balenciaga. Demna: Hello. I can see that. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. [laughs]. Demna: I can see you're wearing... I have met with no one who, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Chioma wears a lot of Balenciaga- Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:26:13]. I'm terrible. I'm terrible. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: It's bad. [laughs]. Demna: Well, thank you for having me here. Chloe Malle: It's like wearing a full look, to the show. Demna: [laughing]. Chioma Nnadi: I know, I couldn't resist, so- Demna: But I haven't seen you, added some holes in it, no? Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: It's, it's been worn a lot. Demna: It's been... Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: It's been, like- Demna: It has a life of its- Chioma Nnadi: It's... ha- has life. Chloe Malle: Describe the sweater, Chioma. Chioma Nnadi: So, it's like a feral sweater, that's been completely destroyed and, um- Chloe Malle: A deconstructed- Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:26:32]. Chloe Malle: How would you describe it- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... Demna, the same way? Demna: Yeah. I mean, it was in the, Afterworld collection- Chloe Malle: Okay. Demna: It was during COVID, when it- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Chloe Malle: Oh, and she- Demna: ... when we did the video game- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, wow. Demna: Yeah. So, I actually, uh, saw it once in real. [laughs]. You know- Chioma Nnadi: You're kidding me. Demna: Because then, it was really scandal- Chloe Malle: Oh, because everyone was in- Demna: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... lockdown. Demna: It was... Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Demna: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was all on Zoom. We used to be all on [inaudible 00:26:53]- Chloe Malle: Oh, that's so funny. Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: So I have a pandemic sweater on. Demna: Yeah, around [inaudible 00:26:56]- Chloe Malle: You have a pandemic collector's item. [laughs]. Demna: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: I'm holding on tight, into it completely disintegrates. Demna: [laughing]. Chioma Nnadi: Um, but yeah. [laughs]. Demna: It may take a while. Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. It will. It will. Any- anyway, so, well we should get back to the actual- Chloe Malle: No, no- Chioma Nnadi: ... time. Chloe Malle: Demna, we're so thrilled to have you. And today, you're also wearing a sweatshirt. Demna: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: But, can you tell us a little bit about what's, what's happening with this sweater? Was this from the Mud collection? Demna: Yeah. That was from the October show. Uh, Summer, '23, I guess. I never know, exactly. This is the right season? Yeah. And, as you can see, it has all the stains and, um, you know, it looks destroyed and worn in for, for a while, which it's not. But, it's a lot of effort that went into making and treating it, until looking like something that, had a long life, before. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Is there a secret? A lot of your clothes are, are very distressed. Is there one secret tool, that you would use? Like, for example, to destroy this hood, of this? Demna: Well, there is this... We have, like, the whole artillery, basically, on destruction. [laughs]. And then- Chloe Malle: Oh, my God. Chioma Nnadi: A [inaudible 00:27:51] of destruction. [laughs]. Demna: Where, like, it's different materials. Like, actually, when we do, like, samples, we use, uh... I don't do it, but we have a team of people, who are really professional, destroy everything that, [laughs]- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: Professional destroyers. Demna: And that, I know they use a lot of make-up and a lot of, like, uh, shoe, shoe polish material, and stuff like that. Chloe Malle: Wow. Demna: Because we also try to use materials that don't smell, too bad. Chloe Malle: Oh, right. Chioma Nnadi: That must be... It must be tough, to find the right balance. Demna: Yeah. And then, in productional business, industrialized, and that's the hard part. Often pieces that look completely, like, destroyed, and you know, stained, et cetera, that, sometimes people question, why would they, you know, why would they cost that much. Or, you know, anything like that. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: It, actually, involves a lot of work, a lot more, than just making it clean, super, you know- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: ... crisp, T-shirt, or, or, or sweatshirt, or something. So, I'm not comparing it to the couture process, but there is a lot of work, additionally, to just making the garments. And I love that. I love giving a garment, a face, that tells some kind of story, and- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, no. Demna: And it's hard to do. Chioma Nnadi: I, I love that, even the, um, eh... Is every piece, kind of, slightly different? If they're all, sort of... How does it, how are you able to- Demna: Mm, yeah, yeah- Chioma Nnadi: ... slightly [inaudible 00:28:58]. Demna: They're never, exactly the same, because you cannot really control the process- Chioma Nnadi: Replicate, that- Demna: ... so much. And I like that, too. Because it gives it an identity, you know. So, it's quite rare, and in our business, to have that. Chloe Malle: Yeah, absolutely. Demna: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Do people ever complain? Like, well, I wanted the hole on the other side, like that one. Demna: Oh, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Demna: Or, I wanted more holes, on all of the- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: Yeah, yeah. I get a lot of that. Chioma Nnadi: Just make more holes, like I've done. Demna: Yeah. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Be like, Chioma. [laughs]. Demna: Yeah. But, you know, there are some moments, where I feel like I want something super crisp, and not... It's not, like, it's not the only thing I like of this. Chloe Malle: Right. Demna: But, I'm into that. Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Your, your, your last show, was quite, kind of, focused on tailoring, very, oversized- Demna: Yeah, there was like a, very um- Chloe Malle: That was the anti-destruction. No? Demna: Yeah, it was like a reset show. I needed to have that show, be very, like, immaculate, in some way. Chloe Malle: Hm. Demna: You know, and to be able to, to reset the button and to, kind of, put things in prospective. And to, almost like, restart, in some way, going back to my roots of, what really matters in fashion, and, uh, it was making clothes. And that show was about, that, you know. So there was not really, much place, for that- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: ... extra layer of, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Have, have you maintained that, renewed passion, since then? Demna: I mean, this passion has always been in me, you know, ever since I remember myself. I think since, um, before I went to, like, school. Like, four, five years old, I, I was into making stuff, like, making clothes. Chloe Malle: Mm. Demna: And the March show, was a moment, in which I already went back to that. I need to, kind of, back to my roots in design, and, and, um, and to, really, like, understand what drives me, to do that. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Demna: And, uh, not only, it's there, it's like, multiplied, to, [laughs], a hundred times, I think, ever since. Uh, I actually can't wait to get back on the plane tomorrow, and go back to Paris and start the fittings for next couture. And, you know, it's- Chioma Nnadi: It's exciting. Demna: It's like, I love doing that. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: You know, when you love doing that, there is nothing else, that you want to do most of the time. And I'm like, I'm kind of, blessed to have, to work, to have a job that, involves that. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, I feel like you've talked, quite a lot, about your childhood. But, I'm interested to know what, Demna, the student, was like. And you I know you studied in Antwerp, right? Demna: Hm, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: So, tell, tell me a little bit about what that experience is like. I know that, that Royal Academy of Fine Arts, is, uh, is a really prestigious school. Demna: Which, I didn't know about, by the way, when I went there. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, really? Demna: Yeah. I didn't know how prestigous, that it was. And- Chioma Nnadi: So, how did you pick it? How did you pick it? Demna: It was the most affordable tuition fee, per year, that I could actually afford. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, I love that. Demna: So, it was, [laughs]... Back then, it changed ever since, but- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Demna: It was about hundred... 500 Euros, a year, because it's, uh, like a Royal Academy, so it was, kind of, financed through the State and, and then the school, you know, offered a lot of things, that I was looking to. Especially, in like, in terms of, like, art education, not only fashion. Um, but I didn't realize how important, uh, you know, its legacy was, actually, when I came there. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, tell us a bit, about the legacy, about what makes it such an important school. Demna: Well, Van Gogh studied there, to start with. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Chioma Nnadi: Okay. I did not know that. [laughs]. Demna: He, he, uh... By the way, not in f- old-fashioned [inaudible 00:31:48], of this- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. No, no, no. Demna: They didn't exist. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: That would be a twist. [laughs]. Demna: Uh, yeah, that would be a twist. But I found it... Uh, I found out about it, like, when, actually, I was already there. And, um, apart from the fashion curriculum, we had to do all the other things, like Art History and Semiotics, and all of that. And, looking back now, in retrospect, I realize that this is, actually, the part that impacted me the most, the, the, the Art School, part of it, not so much fashion, because- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Demna: Um, I, we did, like, new drawing classes, for example. Which I realize, recently, it really gave me the understanding of human anatomy, the prospective. Um, I drew, but I didn't... I was not used to draw, like, three-dimensional things, and two dimension, and that was really important. Today, it really defines, a little bit, my, my relation to, you know, garment and body- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Demna: ... and the relation between the two. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Demna: And I thinks it's a lot of knowledge, that I got during this, these courses, as well as Art History, that, I think really helped me, ultimately, to find myself in, in, in the design world. That's, um, that's something I didn't see, at the mo-, at the time. I felt like, oh, it's another course I have to do, just because I had to, like, do the whole checklist. But, looking back, it's actually the part of the, uh, of four years I spend there, that I think, impacted me most, as a designer, today. Chioma Nnadi: What was the culture, there? Like, what were the... Did you, did you form a lot of friendships, or like, what was your, the social side of being at school in Antwerp? Demna: It was very social, actually. There was a lot of, um, like, working together with other students. We would spend, uh, evenings and night, sometimes, working together. First of all, because it was more fun. Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Demna: But also, because we could learn from each other. There were some people, who had more experience in pageant making. Some people, who better drawers. It really, kind of, put the foundation in working in the team. Like, I think that my skills of working with my team today, they were defined, kind of, back then, in collaborating with other students, fellow students, sharing, you know, our ideas, uh, a lot of it. A lot of things, we learned ourselves, you know. Chloe Malle: Do you feel like that helped you, figure out what your design process would be, and that, sort of, trained you, in that way? Or, you had to, sort of, evolve that on your own? Demna: I still, [laughs], evolve my design process, just to be honest. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: It changes, all the time, but, but it gave, yeah, it gave, the kind of, a foundation to that. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: And, you need to be able exchange with people, to know what's the right decision to make. Chioma Nnadi: For sure. Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: We're all curious about your daily routine. Tell us a bit about, like what your day looks like. Chloe Malle: Well, because I read, also, that you mediate every morning. I was very impressed. Demna: Yeah, I do. Chioma Nnadi: How many minute- Demna: I don't- Chioma Nnadi: How many minutes do you do? Demna: Well, it depends, weekends is longer. Chioma Nnadi: Okay. Demna: During the week, especially if I'm in Paris, is the shortest. It's like seven, eight minutes, [laughs], mediations, when I'm in Paris. Chloe Malle: Do you use an app, to help you? Demna: I do, sometimes, but now, less and less. Chloe Malle: Okay. Demna: I feel, like, I feel more comfortable being in silence- Chloe Malle: Okay. Demna: ... and just focusing on- Chloe Malle: Have you done that a long time? Chioma Nnadi: I'm not there. Demna: Focusing... Well, like in the weekends, I do about half an hour, and it's really, that's the best. Like, half an hour, is really, the perfect for you. I tried to start my mo-, my days with that, uh, with meditation, or just like, you know, having self-time. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Demna: I think that's, really something I've learned, that is important, uh, to have that space. Especially, during pandemic, it was something that I, well, kind of, had a luxury, if I can say, to practice- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: Because- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: You are at home, so you, kind of... Uh, and then I spend a lot of m- pos-, as much time, as I can, with my husband and our dogs. And, kind of, not being the work mode, at all, until midday. Chloe Malle: Okay. Demna: I start working at noon. I've learned this, working with Marc Jacobs, uh, back in the day, and I really thought that's a very good arrangement, to- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: ... you know, to really have this, self-time. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: Yeah, I feel like, like, I can start earlier- Chloe Malle: Right. Demna: But then, I feel like, I missed out on myself, and I think it is important to give yourself the time to start. And then, I'm like, kind of, you know, flexible, with the day. So... But everything is different. I don't know, sometimes, I'm not in the mood to meditate, and I'm, you know, I'd rather, just, do nothing, or- Chloe Malle: And, can you tell us about your dogs? [laughs]. Demna: My dogs, they- Chioma Nnadi: She's a big dog person. Demna: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: I'm a big dog person. [laughs]. Demna: Well I am a very big dog... I mean, general, like, I, I love to be around animals. And I grew up, also, with animals around. But my, my pets are, really... they, kind of, rule my life. I mean, they define, what, [laughs]- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: ... where we go on holiday. Like, how, you know, we plan our- Chloe Malle: Do they come on holiday? Demna: Oh, yeah. Of course. Well, that's now, since three days, it's, it's quite a nightmare for me, not to have them around me- Chloe Malle: Awe. Chioma Nnadi: Awe. Demna: Yeah. But, yeah, it's two Chihuahuas. Chloe Malle: What kind... Oh, two Chihuahuas. Demna: You know, I [inaudible 00:36:06]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: What are their names? Demna: Cookie and Chiquita. Chloe Malle: Awe. Demna: And then, I... [laughs]- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: And, you know, Chihuahuas have, quite, some character- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: ... you need to be able to deal with them. Chloe Malle: Oh, they have such attitude, I love it. Demna: Yeah. Yeah, they have attitude and they, really like, lets you know- Chloe Malle: Okay. Demna: ... things, so- Chloe Malle: So, they're in Zurich. Your home base is Zurich, right? Demna: Yeah, in Geneva. Chloe Malle: Oh, in Geneva. Oh, that's right. Demna: Geneva, yeah. Yeah, but now, they're in Paris, waiting for me to be back, because- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Okay. Demna: I have... Yeah, it's a dilemma. Chloe Malle: Do they take the train, back and forth, or they fly? Demna: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And they love it. They love their travel bags- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. It's a nice train ride. Demna: It's fun. I mean, who wouldn't love it, someone carries you all over. Chloe Malle: I know- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Demna: I know, it's like- Chloe Malle: ... it seems very nice. [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Can I train [inaudible 00:36:38]? Demna: [laughs]. Yeah. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: I'm tired of being a person. Demna: But in this moment, of kind of, unconditional, you know, when you're playing with that, like, I really... It's, kind of like, meditation. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: It's very healthy, I have to say. Chioma Nnadi: I'm so curious about, what you love about being in New York. Because I know, you know, you're so plugged into the culture. What do you, what do you love, look forward to, when you come here? Is there anything that you, absolutely, have to do in New York? Demna: Mm. Chioma Nnadi: What do you notice about the style of people in New York, versus Europe? Demna: It's interesting. Like, I thought about it. Like, I thought, what do I love about New York? And I realized, that one thing I, really, I, kind of- Chioma Nnadi: You did a show, here. Demna: I, kind of, do... Yeah, we did the show. But, like, one thing that I always do when I come to New York, or at least, try to do that, is like, getting lost in the streets- Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Demna: Just, not having a destination, to go to, walking around, observing. Um, I think you see a lot of interesting style, here. And, like, the way people, you know, dress and express... I'm not saying fashion, you know, it's in general. Like, even, people who have no connection to it, at all, or no intention to be, you know, fashionable, that's people who interest me the most. And you see plenty of those, here, much more. I feel like, Europe, especially like, for example, Paris or Geneva, even more, than that, where I live, is very controlled. You, like, kind of, like, have to take the boxes, and like, fit- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: ... into the codes, social dress codes, let's put it that way. Which, is something that I do not feel, here. I feel the freedom, about the way we express ourselves, through clothes. And also, people come and comment on, like, the way I look. Like, somebody will be, ah- Chioma Nnadi: I know, I love that about New York. Nobody does it in Europe. Nobody will come up to you and say- Demna: No. Chioma Nnadi: ... you, you have an amazing coat on. Here, they will- Chloe Malle: Really? Chioma Nnadi: ... express- Demna: In Europe- Chloe Malle: How- Demna: ... people feel it's kind of- Chloe Malle: No. Demna: ... almost, like, embarrassing to do that. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: I don't know- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: ... it's much more uptight, in that way. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: And here, I had the, the little time, that I've spent, I had a few people talk to me, start a conversation, based on what I was wearing. And I find that, really interesting, because that's what I'm trying to do through my work. Chloe Malle: And what do they say? Chioma Nnadi: I love that, too. Demna: Like, love your hoodie. In situation, I had a few times. Oh, you have no shoes. Oh, no, you have shoes, but they don't look like shoe. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Demna: I mean- Chioma Nnadi: Is that- Chloe Malle: Oh my God, you're not wearing shoes! Demna: They just say- Chioma Nnadi: They're like, that. Demna: But- Chioma Nnadi: You have to describe them. Chloe, please describe the shoes. Demna: It's unctuous. Chloe Malle: Okay. Demna is wearing, what look like black stockings, and then you look closer, and there's a thin rubber sole on his feet, but it's, it's very discreet. So, it really, just looks like, you're padding around in black socks. Ah! I love this. Demna: But that's, kind of, like questioning the, rule situation. I think that's what fashion is about, to me, at least. And, that's what I'm... makes me so excited about it. And people, do engage into this conversation, here, in New York, also in L.A., by the way, which is in a very different way. I think New York's, much more, like open, in that way. I mean, maybe there is... It's more condensed. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: They are more people, per square meter, but, [laughs]- Chioma Nnadi: Definitely, a lot of people per square meter. Demna: [laughing]. Aye. I love that. And I like the fact, that I get lost all the time. Like, for me, all the time, I don't know where I am. And, I like that I'm known, that whatever is... everything is possible, situation. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: Mm. And I've noticed, also, especially after the pandemic, the first time I came here, I've noticed there was this energy, like, especially, all of the young people, like, expressing themselves, through how they, you know, what they wear. Like, breaking codes, in some way. Chioma Nnadi: What's in-... what's inspiring you, right now? We've been... A big conversation, here, uh, is about AI, and about, obviously, how will it effect the way that we work. And obviously, as a, as writers, we're very... we're, we're curious, about where this is gonna go. But, I think this is gonna disrupt, all creative fields. Demna: Mm. Chioma Nnadi: And, e- even ways, engage, through to technology and, you know, I remember getting the headset for your show, and knocking around my apartment, and- Demna: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: ... it was really fun. It was, like a really amazing way to engage, because I am not... I'm a techno-fobe. But yeah, tell me what, what you're into. Does the AI thing, what does it spark for you? Are there other things that you're thinking about? Demna: AI, I mean, has... there has been a lot of conversation around it, recently. And, it sparks a lot of fear in me, I have to say. Chioma Nnadi: Same. Demna: Uh, because, because, it's so out of control, and we don't really understand where it goes. On the other hand, that's the exciting part of it, as well. But it doesn't necessarily, inspire me into... Like, I think I'm getting... Actually, the more we talk about AI, the more I'm inspired by a human- Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Demna: ... and what it has to offer. Because, I- Chloe Malle: That's good... First, I, I'm- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: I like that. Demna: You know, I fee like... I try a lot of things. I'm actually, currently do... try to do some design work involving AI- Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Demna: And, see how that can translate into a product. But, it's, it's very dumb. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. I know. Demna: Still. [laughs]. So, you know- Chioma Nnadi: I know. Demna: And there is- Chioma Nnadi: There's no soul. There's no soul, to it. Demna: There is- Chloe Malle: Well, no kidding. Chioma Nnadi: I mean- Demna: [laughing]. Chioma Nnadi: ... could we just, like... Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, especially, when, when I'm looking at your clothes, everything has a... you know, even if it's destroyed, it has a suggestion of touch, right, of human? Demna: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: And, humanity. Yeah. Demna: Emotion. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, emotion. Demna: I think emotion is an important, uh, part, that probably will take a while- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: I'm not sure. Like, in, like, my lifetime, that I'm gonna, like, see that real... And, because they talk about that, you know. But, I'm not sure about that. Taste, when you smokes... you know, it's- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: ... it's easy to type, like- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: ... something- Chloe Malle: Right. Demna: And then, it's, it's out of options- Chloe Malle: Right. Demna: ... it's already destroyed hoodie, but, the, the, the taste, is something you cannot, really learn. I mean, AI's a lot about feeding information, having it learn it, and then, kind of... Yeah. It's interesting. I think it's super interesting. And, it's gonna help us a lot, with many things. I think, for creatives, is kind of, we have... You know, I mean, I'm quite careful about it. Yeah. And, um, I do not think that, we can replace a human creativity, at this point, with that. And, it will take a while, probably, to get close to that. I don't know. But, I do have, like, an idea of using it for certain projects, where I think it's competent- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Demna: ... by, you know, in, in- Chloe Malle: You're delegating. Demna: Yeah, kind of. Like, let's see what they got. Chioma Nnadi: It's around labels of con-, entirely, AI, can, you can get dressed, that's AI generated, right? Demna: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Okay, but not a nice one. Demna: And then, it has, like- Chioma Nnadi: It's not a nice one. Demna: It has a weird sleeve, instead of a [inaudible 00:42:45]. Chloe Malle: Yeah, exactly. [laughs]. Demna: And you're like, why is it there. You know- Chloe Malle: [laughing]. Demna: And making... It, kind of... Sometimes, it's so senseless, that it's interesting, for now. Chloe Malle: I know, I am, sort of, fascinated by, like, watching the process of it. But- Demna: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: ... you know. Demna: Yeah, I try to play, with like, branding and logos, with it, and that's kind of interesting, where it goes. Because, it's like, it, kind of, tries to mess around with it, in a way that I find, knowing that's, that's AI, doing it, I find it interesting. If it would be, like, some graphic designer, do that, I would never look at it. But know, that it's AI- Chloe Malle: Right. Demna: I'm like, okay, in that context, there is something to it. Conceptually, speaking. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: But, I want to be patient with that. Chioma Nnadi: Well, I think that's, I think that's only fair. Demna: Yeah. It's like- Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:43:28]. Demna: ... I don't wake up in the morning, and say, like, oh, I'm gonna... like, what's new about it. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Demna: You know? [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. I- Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: And I think, personally, I think there should be... I agree with you. I think we need to be really careful about how we move forward, and hopefully, they'll be some regulation around it. Demna: Mm. Chioma Nnadi: Because, it's potentially, to go- Demna: Yeah, that's what's scare about it. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. That is what's really scare about it. Chloe Malle: What is inspiring you, right now? Is there a song, a place, a, something you've been watching? Demna: That's a hard question. Music. I, I, I can't live without music. That's, really something. Chloe Malle: What's the last thing you listened to? Demna: Oh, I listen to Diana Crow, this morning. Chloe Malle: Mm. Demna: And, uh, I love being in New York and listening to... I don't know, it's like, kind of, like, I create my movie and- Chloe Malle: [laughing]. Demna: It depends. Like, and I can listen to, like, something completely different. Like, this evening. And, I like to create, um, atmosphere around the place, where I am. But I listen to so much, different- Chioma Nnadi: Does your partner influence your- Demna: Yeah, but he doesn't like to listen to music, because he's a composer, so he, he has music in his head. He always says, like, I'm the one playing musing at home. Chloe Malle: Interesting. Demna: Yeah, it's interesting- Chloe Malle: Wow. Demna: Because, he never does. So... But, of course, we have very similar taste and it's... we influence, I think, each... We have a conversa- Chloe Malle: Do the dogs like having music on? Demna: Oh, yeah. They are used to, like, very har-, like, loud music playing. I like music when it's present, you know. Chioma Nnadi: Do you work with... Because, I think Carlo always worked with music. I'm always interested to see if... I need quite, but maybe that's- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: ... because I'm working with words. Demna: Oh, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Do you work with music? And what music do you work with? Demna: Yeah, I always work with music. I think some people on my team, they find it annoying, often. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: Because, you know, some people, as you say, they need to have that so-, like, quite, in order to focus. For me, it's different. It's really the opposite. Chloe Malle: But Chioma, you can't have, even, instrumental music. I, I understand about, music with lyrics. But, for me, like, uh, classical music, or jazz, I'm very happy to- Demna: Like, bells? Chloe Malle: Yeah. [laughs]. Demna: Instruments. Chloe Malle: Just, ding. Chioma Nnadi: That's one- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: You know, I can listen to, um, Alice Coltrane. Chloe Malle: Awe. Demna: Uh-huh. Chioma Nnadi: That's it. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Okay. Demna: Yeah. Alice, specific- Chioma Nnadi: And then it gets me in a very, psychedelic, kind of- Demna: Uh-huh. Chioma Nnadi: There's something I like, medi- meditation and yoga- Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: So, it gets me into, like a- Chloe Malle: All right. Chioma Nnadi: ... more zen mood. But, that is it. I've tried everything else. [laughs]. Demna: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: But mostly, I have to, just, sit in silence and if I'm doing something that requires a tunnel of thought- Demna: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: ... it's not happening with music. Demna: Yeah. That's why I give myself this, you know, moment in the morning, of silence. Because, then rest of my day is full of sound. I don't know. I think I'm silence-phobiac- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Demna: ... kind of, in some way. I try to, uh- Chioma Nnadi: Why do you think that is? Demna: I don't know. I find it hard, sometimes, to be... Like, I actually, really had... It's an effort, for me to do this, like, 30 minutes of silence. Chioma Nnadi: Why did you decide to do it, and how long have you been doing this practice? Demna: I've been doing it for, like, three years, now, even a bit more, maybe, and- Chioma Nnadi: So the pandemic, in a way- Demna: Yeah. Yeah. It started with that. And it's also the, the moment of being grounded, and being in touch with yourself. I think that's what, what it helped me, do a lot. It's about, letting go, I guess. Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Demna: And, I'm somebody who is, really, like a very much controlling person. Letting go, even for 10 minutes a day, is like a huge, [laughs], effort, but also, it makes you grow, you know? Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: As a human. Chioma Nnadi: It really does. Demna: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: I'm a big fan. Demna: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Is there a dream person you would love to see, wearing your clothes? Demna: I just realized, last week, I would like to design something for my mom, actually. Chloe Malle: Awe. Chioma Nnadi: Awe, I love that. Demna: In Paris, like, she, she was, like, and I don't have anything from couture, an di realized- Chloe Malle: Awe. Demna: ... I started, like, I started my fashion, obsession with, like, trying on my mom's clothes, and making silhouettes out of it, when I was small. And, and her not having anything from my couture, felt a little bit like a, missed, how to say, missed opportunity, [laughs], from this designer. So, I think she's gonna be my next- Chloe Malle: Oh, I love that- Demna: Uh- Chloe Malle: Well this show is airing- Demna: ... personal. Chloe Malle: That's so cool. Demna: But she's not gonna be in the show. But I just felt like, I want to design something for her- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: ... to make her, you know, feel beautiful- Chloe Malle: Oh, I can't wait- Demna: ... and that's, you know- Chioma Nnadi: Does she come to the shows? Demna: Yeah, yeah, she always comes. But- Chioma Nnadi: That's [inaudible 00:47:20]- Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Your mom- Demna: That's why I promised her, I'm gonna do something for her. It's like, when you design for the person, it's a very different process, than when you do a, ready-to-wear collection, you design for people- Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Demna: Like, for some, you know, this, kind of- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: ... anonymous. You, you don't, like, necessarily, put the face on all- Chioma Nnadi: yeah. Demna: But when you do couture, you, kind of, do it for that particular person. Chloe Malle: I know, it's so interesting to me- Demna: It's an- Chloe Malle: ... that it's, just that one. It's like a piece of art. Chioma Nnadi: It's per... it's so special. Demna: Yeah, it's like if you would cook a dish for someone who has specific, you know, wishes and- Chioma Nnadi: Dietary- Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. [inaudible 00:47:47]. Demna: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Also, yeah, that, that [inaudible 00:47:48]- Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:47:48]. Chloe Malle: Well, you're a vegetarian, right? Demna: Yeah. Chloe Malle: There you go. Demna: Flexible vegan. Chloe Malle: [laughing]. Flexible vegan. Demna: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: So, if you had to describe your mother's style, you know, and, and as you perceived it growing up, how would you... What were your first impressions, of the way she approached dressing? And how did that shape, how you think about clothes? Demna: I think it influenced me a lot, because my mom, she, uh... I was bo-, like, she was 18, when I was born. So, I mean- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Demna: ... she, she was, really, a young mom. And, she was always into fashion, and she still is. And, um, the way she dressed, always, I... it always stood out. Like, it was... She was a bit of a punk, in some way. You know, she had the long- Chloe Malle: I love that. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, me too. Demna: ... rebellious way, of like, what... if it was a mini-skirt, it was way too many. And then, she would wear thigh-high boots, with it. You know, there were things that- Chloe Malle: Because this is early '80s. Chioma Nnadi: This sounds like Balenciaga. [laughs]. Demna: If that was, like... Yeah, like, mid, yeah, yeah, there was Balenciaga. And she would come to school, to like, parents meetings, dressed like that, and people would be, like, where's your mom. Like, it supposed to be- Chloe Malle: Oh, I love that. Demna: ... fab. I think that, thigh-high boots, really is- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Very cool. Demna: It's part of my design vocabulary. Chioma Nnadi: You've got a lot of good ones. Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Plenty, good ones. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: Yeah, it kinda became a staple, I guess thanks to those influences, including my mom, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: The pantaboot, comes from mama. Demna: Uh... Yeah, that was like, an extended version- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Demna: [inaudible 00:49:03]. [laughs]. The pantaboot comes from the idea of, like, why do we have to have so many different things that we need to put on. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: You know, it's just like- Chioma Nnadi: Keep it simple. One, one step. Demna: One step, and that's it, you know- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: No one wants to be... Be the fun the experiment that, ended up- Chloe Malle: Could you describe, what boot is, that you're talking about? Because I don't know. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, it's the fusion of pants and boots, hence, pantaboots. Am I right? Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: And you step into them, so you're just ready to go. Demna: That's it, yeah. You don't need to take off your shoes, take off your pants. Chioma Nnadi: No. Demna: It's like, yeah. Chloe Malle: You- Demna: I'm in. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Demna: And it's, kind of, cool, like, for the silhouette. Chloe Malle: You were warned- Chioma Nnadi: You walk into a home, where you need to take your shoes off- Demna: For sure. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Big problem. [laughs]. Demna: Yeah, that's why you need to, like- Chloe Malle: You just- Demna: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: ... better be wearing that tummy wear. Chioma Nnadi: Better be wearing nice underwear. Demna: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Uh, yeah. Chloe Malle: [laughing]. Demna: [laughs]. I didn't think about that, in the process, definitely. Mm-hmm. [laughing]. But sometimes, I like, like, senseless fashion. Oh, you know. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: I think it's fun part of it. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Like, like, having gloves on a- Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... on this, you know, where you can't type on your f-... It's just so fun- Demna: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... just like, to have those things. Demna: I like the idea of it not being practical. I say, you know- Chloe Malle: Or a hood, when you're going to- Demna: Oh, eh- Chloe Malle: ... eat at the Met Gala. Demna: Yeah. Well, yeah, then you when you, don't just decide not to eat, if you want to- Chloe Malle: [laughing]. Demna: That's what happens. Chloe Malle: Demna, I've always been interested, the way you s- speak about, how you have some social anxiety, you're shy, and how that, sort of, manifested in, itself, in some of your designs. Like, for example, maybe, wearing the face hood- Demna: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: ... or, some of the coverings. Is that something that you're, thinking about, consciously, or it's just, sort of, drips in? Demna: When it's pat of you, it, you know, you cannot really, isolate it. It gets through and it becomes part of your work, as well. For me, it was something that, uh, all these elements that you've listed. I think, it was, really, the way of protecting myself, or- Chloe Malle: Mm. Demna: ... you know, or, or, kind of, make it as comfortable as possible, for me to be in public, or to be in a, to be photographed, even. Because I hate pictures of myself. So, I had to find a solution. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: It was a very, like, personal, very subjective thing, that actually, ended up being translated into my aesthetic, but- Chloe Malle: Hm. Demna: ... I really did it for myself, to be okay with that situation that I'm not comfortable with, naturally, even though, I'm trying to work on it. Chioma Nnadi: I don't know much about how, [Christabel 00:51:19] was, and I don't know- Demna: Hm- Chioma Nnadi: ... how much you know, and then, how much you know about how he managed- Demna: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: ... his role, and- Demna: I, I mean, I only know about, him from, from people who, you know, who wrote about him- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Demna: Or, people, who know people, from his family. And I've, I've exchanged a lot, with this very small group of people, about that and... because I am really curious, to understand. There are certain, like, similarities, that I, also- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, wow. Demna: ... uh, see in, uh, the, some personal traits of him, and from what I understand, he was a very private person, who didn't like... I mean, he was- Chloe Malle: He was never photographed, right? Demna: Well, I think there were a few, official pictures of him- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Demna: And then, there were a few, like, paparazzi pictures, from him walking on the street, actually. Chioma Nnadi: Ah- Demna: Yeah, I thought- Chloe Malle: But he was very shy, and did not like being photographed. Demna: He didn't like it, and he only gave one or two interviews, I think, in his whole career. Chloe Malle: Wow! Demna: Yeah. The interview he gave, it was after he closed the house. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Demna: Yeah. And, um, I really admire that, a lot, about, my idea of him, that kind of privacy, and you know, uh, being dedicated to his craft, I think that's really something that I look up, the most in, and I really can relate to that, a lot. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Demna: I think we live in a different world, today, in which you can't just dedicate yourself to your craft, and like, ignore- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Demna: ... the rest of the world. But, back then, it was possible. And I think he did it, in a very, very elegant way, you know. Chioma Nnadi: It's true, you can't, anymore, right, as a designer, you're kind of, your- Demna: But you wouldn't want to- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Demna: ... because you want to, like, you want to absorb what's going on around- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Demna: You know, I think it was a very, you know- Chioma Nnadi: Isolate yourself. Demna: Uh, yeah. But, we don't really know much about him. Like, we don't know h- h- how tall he was, we don't know how his voice was. Chioma Nnadi: I love that. Demna: It's, it's very interesting, this whole enigmatic, you know, persona. Chloe Malle: Maybe 100 years from now, someone will be doing a podcast. Chioma Nnadi: Somebody will do his AI. Demna: That, AI thing. Chioma Nnadi: Talking to him, in hologram- Chloe Malle: Oh, I was gonna say, do a podcast, talking about we didn't know that much about Demna. Demna: [laughing]. Chloe Malle: We didn't know how tall he was. [laughs]. Demna: Well, there's a lot of stuff that leaked, by now. So, I guess AI will make a fairly accurate picture- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Demna: ... about me being, not very, [laughs], you know. [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Well, Demna, thank you so, so much- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, thank you. Chloe Malle: ... for coming in. This was such a treat for us. Demna: Thank you. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, thank you. Demna: That was premier for me, almost. So, I'm Chloe Malle: We had a - Demna: I really enjoyed that. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, we're so, we're so excited that you agreed to do this, and- Chloe Malle: It's really fun for us. Demna: Thank you. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, we've been, we've been, we've been talking about it for a long time. Demna: Thank you. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Demna: It was fun. Chloe Malle: Yay! Demna: Thank you, both. Chioma Nnadi: I'm glad that you had fun. That's it for this episode of The Run Through. The Run Through, with Vogue, is a production of Conde Nast Entertainment. Chloe Malle: The show is produced by Suzie Lechtenberg, Chelsea Daniel, and Alex Jhamb Burns. It's engineered by Jake Lummus and Gabe Quiroga, and mixed by Mike Kutchman. See you next week. Bye.