Chioma Nnadi: This is the Run-Through. I'm Chioma Nnadi- Chloe Malle: And I'm Chloe Malle. You know, you really, uh, jumped right in there, Chioma. Didn't give me a moment. I'm like, uh... Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Come on, we're in a frenzied week. This is Met week. Chloe Malle: On Vogue.com just looking at, you know, what people are recommending I buy. [laughing] Chioma Nnadi: Aren't you stressed? Chloe Malle: I'm so stressed that I have, like... I actually have a rash that's like, a stress rash. Chioma Nnadi: Okay. All right, fair enough. It's been... It's a storm in a teacup, but it is the Met week. Chloe Malle: It... I don't know what is about this week, it's just everyone's in a bad mood, so it's hard to... It's, like, every- Chioma Nnadi: Mercury retrograde, and some eclipses, apparently. Chloe Malle: Yeah. They should schedule the Met around that. Chioma Nnadi: They should. Chloe Malle: Can't wait to bring that up with Andrew Golden. [laughing] Move the exhibit, don't make it when Mercury's in retrograde. Chioma Nnadi: No. I mean, I'm glad we spoke to the people who planned the Met last week because this week isn't a good week for- Chloe Malle: Oh, they would have been- Chioma Nnadi: Woo, no. Chloe Malle: But that was fun. I feel like I, uh, got a lot of- Chioma Nnadi: Me too. Chloe Malle: Inside dirt about the 250,000 flowers that have to be hand inspected for insects, that don't- Chioma Nnadi: I'm glad that I don't do that job. Chloe Malle: Yeah, 'cause it's starting in a few days. Chioma Nnadi: Woo. Chloe Malle: How's your dress coming, Chioma? Chioma Nnadi: Well, still being made. I went yesterday to get, mm, the bodice kind of refitted, so I'm slightly nervous. Chloe Malle: And then, this morning, you went to the new Tiffany store. You got a tour with Anna? Chioma Nnadi: Yes, it was- Chloe Malle: Is it crazy? Chioma Nnadi: It's insanity. It's 10 floors- Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: It's topped by a sort of glass atrium that's like a diamond- Chloe Malle: Oh, good grief. Chioma Nnadi: And- Chloe Malle: Peter Merino did it? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. It's pretty in- Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: It's, it's actually breathtaking, and- Chloe Malle: I feel like there's been a lot of chatter about this, uh, open a. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, it's four... I think it's four years in the making. From the top, you have this beautiful view of the park, and then inside, every... I mean, Peter Merino is... Every detail is considered. Chloe Malle: Hm, okay. Chioma Nnadi: Um, and I'm not usually wowed by, like, a store. I'm an online shopper. I don't care about stores, but I was like, "Wow." Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: And then on the... On the ground floor, they have that huge Tiffany diamond, that, um- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. You're still going. All right. [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. No, I need to actually look up what this diamond... How big this diamond is, but it's like, blindingly huge. Chloe Malle: All right. And then, do we still care about Sophia Richie's wedding last weekend? I feel like that really dominated, uh, my social media- Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: Viewed many Chanel dresses. Chioma Nnadi: It was... People were calling it, like, the wedding of the year. It's a little bit early to call it the wedding of the year. I think there was- Chloe Malle: Wow, wedding of the year in April is bold. [laughing] But let me tell you, with all the talk about quiet luxury, there was nothing quiet- Chioma Nnadi: No. Chloe Malle: About that luxurious situation. Chioma Nnadi: No. No. It was pretty... It was pretty luxurious. Chloe Malle: Woo. Chioma Nnadi: But people are really tired of the term quiet luxury, so we may be retiring that phrase very soon. Chloe Malle: Why, just 'cause it's like a bullshit rich person thing to say? Chioma Nnadi: Pretty much. Chloe Malle: I think that's probably fair. Yeah. And then, what else happened this week that we were excited about? Old news, Sophia Richie- Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: [inaudible 00:03:03] Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: No fashion so we don't care. Chioma Nnadi: No. Chloe Malle: Oh, well, today, the And Just Like That trailer dropped- [laughing] Chioma Nnadi: Now we're talking. Chloe Malle: And the, the audible gasp that came from Chioma's mouth when she saw Aiden appear in the last shot was really something that I wish we had recorded. Chioma Nnadi: I'm invested. I'm invested. I- Chloe Malle: I really didn't peg you for an Aiden person. Chioma Nnadi: I'm invested. I remember, didn't they have that upstate jaunt where- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: She was in the cabin, and- Chloe Malle: And him and Big had a, a brawl? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I- Chloe Malle: Sure, they sort of anticipated the upstate trend with that. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I'm a huge Sex and the City fan, but I never went back to rewatch them 'cause I just don't love rewatching shows, or films, or movies, anything. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: But that moment when you see Aiden just made me think, "Oh, I need to revisit that. I need to revisit the [inaudible 00:03:53] Chloe Malle: Aiden has never made me feel that way. Chioma Nnadi: Really? Chloe Malle: No. Also, I didn't like his dog, that cocker spaniel was always getting into trouble, he had no personality. Chioma Nnadi: He seemed like he had heart and soul. Chloe Malle: The dog or Aiden? Chioma Nnadi: Aiden. Chloe Malle: Mm. Well- Chioma Nnadi: Okay. Chloe Malle: And Just Like That is back- Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:04:07] Chloe Malle: And I was excited about the trailer 'cause Victor Garbor's in it, who I love. I love all these hot daddies coming in [inaudible 00:04:12] Chioma Nnadi: Yes. [laughs] Chloe Malle: For their, uh... Their late in life glory. Chioma Nnadi: I'm, I'm here for all the late in life glory in And Just Like That. I didn't think I'd love it, but I wait for every single episode. Chloe Malle: Wow, all right. I mean, I support you. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I'm here for it. Chloe Malle: How did you celebrate your birthday, Chioma? Many happy return to the day. Chioma Nnadi: Thank you. Um, I just went for dinner, very low key 'cause it's a busy week. Chloe Malle: Where'd you go? Chioma Nnadi: Went to this place called Chinese Tuxedo- Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: They have a very good fried rice and noodle dish which I like. Chloe Malle: Lovely. Chioma Nnadi: And with a few friends, and, yeah. It was lovely. Chloe Malle: Very nice. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: I went to an event last night at the New York Public Library celebrating that they just acquired the, um, Joan Didion and John Dunn archives- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, wow. Chloe Malle: And it was a very fraught night because they announced today the city budget, um, which was about to call all the fun-... A lot of funding for the, uh, libraries, and then, uh, they announced this morning that they are going to preserve the budget, so that was a big win for the library. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, that's great. Thank goodness. Chloe Malle: But it was really fun to, uh, hear, talk and some readings of Joan Didion's letters, and it's, um- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: She really kept everything, so that'll all be accessible now. Chioma Nnadi: Is it on, on display, or how does it work? Chloe Malle: I think they'll probably have it cycle through in exhibitions- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Chloe Malle: But I think it'll mostly be upon request in the- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Chloe Malle: The rare books and manuscripts area. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Exciting. Chloe Malle: Chioma, what's your, like, pre-Met prep? Do you get a facial? Do you do a massage? Chioma Nnadi: Um- Chloe Malle: Tell us your process. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, God. Mostly, I just spend a lot of time worrying about how much content we're gonna produce. [laughs] Yeah, so it's endless meetings, endless meetings, and- Chloe Malle: All the way up to the day of? Chioma Nnadi: Mm, until Friday. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: I think we try by the weekend to have everything buttoned up, and then, you know, everybody goes away and prepares the stories, and I mean, last year, I did interview Kim on the Sunday, and wrote- Chloe Malle: Oh, right. Chioma Nnadi: Wrote, wrote it up, and we published it. Chloe Malle: So we're all gearing up for Monday- Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: And there's the, the exhibition will be previewed to the press in the morning, and then around 6:00 pm, everyone's gonna start trickling in, and- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: You can watch the live stream, um, Vogue's exclusive livestream of the 2023 Met Gala red carpet on Monday, May 1, starting at 6:30 pm Eastern Time. You can find out everything else you want to know at Vogue.com/MetGala. And the Run-Through will be back in just a moment. So, you likely know the man, the myth, the legend of Karl Lagerfeld, black suit, white ponytail, leather gloves, dark glasses. He was a designer for over six decades. Karl Lagerfeld was the creative director of Chanel, most famously, but also designed for Fendi, Balmain, Chloé, Patou, his own label. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Um, I think it's most fascinating how just voracious his appetite for all types of things were, high and low, so he also was the creative director of Magnum Ice Cream. Chioma Nnadi: I know. I found that... I completely... That had... I had completely forgotten about that. [laughs] Chloe Malle: I'm a big Magnum fan. He was the- Chioma Nnadi: I know he did the first H&M collaboration, which I think was major. Chloe Malle: Yeah, he really... He wasn't a snob about it. I mean, he- Chioma Nnadi: No. Chloe Malle: You know, listed everything from [inaudible 00:07:45] to Mugler, it was a very, uh, equal opportunity culture vulture. Chioma Nnadi: For sure. I mean, I think we should... We should stress that this exhibit is really focused in on his work- Chloe Malle: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: Not necessarily him as a person. It's called Karl Lagerfeld: A Line of Beauty. It's curated by Andrew Balton. He's the head curator, the costuming [inaudible 00:08:04] at the Met, but, you know, our interview with, um, Lady Am- Amanda Harlech will give you a sense of him as a person. I think she worked so closely with him starting in, you know, the mid '90s, and we were really excited to have her on the show. Chloe Malle: You know, she's often called his muse, but I think it's sort of an ambiguous term of what she did for him. Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Chloe Malle: She called herself sort of his second pair of eyes, and I think the biggest takeaway is that she was intimately involved in every step of the process of his collections from '96 to the end of his life. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. It just felt like there, there was this, like, symbiotic relationship that they had, and way of communicating, and ease with each other because I don't think Karl had so many people that were that close to him in his life- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: And there was obviously something... A sort of comfort level there that was special. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Amanda: Hi, girls. Chloe Malle: Good morning. Chioma Nnadi: Good morning. Amanda: Is it the morning? Chloe Malle: Well for you, it's the afternoon if you were up at 1:00 am. Amanda: Yeah. Yeah, I'm so jet lagged. Chloe Malle: Were you productive when you got up? Did you sort of- Amanda: Uh, yeah. I meditated, I looked out of my hotel window and by 5:00, it was getting light and there was not one sign of a living thing at all. It is just tiers of windows with the identical desk and chair, not one living thing. Chloe Malle: Well, that's Midtown, yeah. [laughing] Chioma Nnadi: Welcome to New York. Amanda: So, I miss my tree. I miss my tree. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Well, we, we have questions about your tree. Um- Chloe Malle: Yeah. We noticed on your Instagram that you, you often post the same tree. Amanda: It's the tree outside my house. Chloe Malle: What kind of tree is it? Amanda: An oak, of course. Chloe Malle: Why of course? Amanda: Well, an oak is not only sort of a sacred, ancient tree that is very special to the UK, but they grow along lay lines, which are the energy channels, lay lines and energy lines- Chloe Malle: Hm. Okay. Amanda: And they protect against witchcraft. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Chioma Nnadi: I didn't know that. That's so lovely. Chloe Malle: So are you protected by this tree every morning? Amanda: Well, being a witch... [laughing] Chioma Nnadi: We didn't know we had a witch in the studio but now we know. Chloe Malle: A good witch. You helped design this exhibition a bit, no? Amanda: No, this is Andrew's brilliant conception. Chloe Malle: [inaudible 00:10:27] Amanda: He, like, very generously, actually, had me along for the ride, which has been enthralling, revelatory, inspiring, at times heartbreaking because I think what Andrew succeeded in doing is opening up the soul of Karl, in a way. It's not just the outside of him. Chloe Malle: In what way? Amanda: Because I think it was... It- it's the fascination... I mean, when we were brainstorming about... Well, sort of two, three years ago, I remember Andrew saying, "I would be... I'm fascinated to know what... You know, what's inside Karl's head." Chloe Malle: Mm. Amanda: And I said, "It's probably like some sort of extraordinary electrical circuit, and kind of interesting, you know, the bits where the wires cross, and there are these, like, like, explosions, and things like that." That's what Andrew has created, and Andrew's creation is mind blowing. It's mind blowing because of his... I, I mean, the precision of his intellect is just staggering, and for me, it's, it's like, that's a country I'd like to live in. [laughing] And it's just... It's just so full of such wonderful things. I can't explain it. It's like, "I'm, I'm gonna sit down in there and sit down forever, thank you very much, Andrew." Um- Chioma Nnadi: Was it quite emotional walking through and remembering so many things when- Amanda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Chloe Malle: This week, this was the first time? Amanda: Yesterday was the first time I- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Amanda: Well, the fi-... Chloe Malle: Yeah. Amanda: Yesterday was the time I walked through the space, the exhibition after... Well, it's been two years of thinking and making. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Amanda: And there was a rough twirl of the soundscape, and I felt Karl was there. Chloe Malle: Mm. Amanda: And when... By the end, you know he's there. Chloe Malle: Aw. Chioma Nnadi: That's amazing. To people who, who don't know, how would you describe your role with Karl, because obviously you worked with him? Amanda: I'll use Karl's description of my role because it was just sort of no job description role. [laughing] Uh, he called me his outside pair of eyes. I'd kind of describe myself as a sprinter who comes in for marathon runners who've been training- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Amanda: So I just come in the for the final straight so that that really actually gets you going, pacing everybody. Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Amanda: But that sounds a bit like, harsh, and I don't think I was that. I just think I was somebody that Karl could trust, he... I remember [inaudible 00:12:54] on an advertising campaign once said to Karl, "Oh, Amanda. She has a very good eye." And Karl turned to her and he said, "She's got two, actually." [laughing] So, um, I think that's really... Uh, thank you [inaudible 00:13:11] I mean- Chloe Malle: That sounds like a very intimate, um, almost language unto itself. How did that evolve? It couldn't have just started with that much trust, no? What was the first time working with him like? Amanda: No, that was very different. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Amanda: Um, I think I had... I think we both had to find our own way. I think Karl, Karl had helped me, you know, when I was literally back against a wall with a divorce, and various things, and he very generously offered to help me, and I found myself at Chanel, and- Chloe Malle: What, what year is this? Amanda: This is '96. Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: And I can remember going... Walking into the studio and being scrutinized by at least 30 people- Chloe Malle: Ugh. Amanda: All immaculately, uh, elegantly dressed. Not one without makeup. Karl didn't really say anything to me, so I thought that what I was expected to do was what I did for John Galliano, and I understood over the years that what I could bring to him was an, an assimilation of his intention, particularly after the [inaudible 00:14:15] which is... Were always shot a week before the actual show, so- Chloe Malle: Right. Amanda: And Karl would shoot them, and it was really, like, actually a dress rehearsal for hair, makeup, often in the car after those shoots, but one, two, three, four in the morning- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Oh, gosh. Amanda: [inaudible 00:14:33] very generously. He could have gone straight home. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Amanda: He would drop me off. Chioma Nnadi: That's so nice. Chloe Malle: And what were you chatting about in the car on the way home? Amanda: I'd be telling him about his collection, what, what it meant to me. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. And what were you listening to? Was there music on? Amanda: There would always be music on. I mean, Karl was surrounded. I mean, he worked to, uh, nonstop music, um, and he had hundreds of iPods that were, um- Chloe Malle: Wow. Amanda: Loaded by, I mean, all sorts of different things. It could be, like, '70s Italian disco, or it could be, uh, 18th Century opera. He would have all of this going 24/7. He could sleep with noise, with music. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Wow. Do you... I mean obviously walking into the studio wasn't the first time you met him. Do you remember the first time you met him? Amanda: Yeah, I do, and it was really significant, again, 'cause- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Amanda: I remember so many details, like I was wearing a stained glass [inaudible 00:15:31] dress which is made of panels of- Chioma Nnadi: Wow, sounds incredible. Amanda: [inaudible 00:15:35] It was very beautiful. Chloe Malle: It was a [inaudible 00:15:38] Amanda: Yeah. I came, uh, you know, only because John was invited with some of his team. Chloe Malle: It was a party. Amanda: One of the parties that Karl would throw for the fash-... His fashion friends, and his... The fashion friends he would want to have, so it was very personal, and it was a cross section of everybody who was really making and doing, and it was long before iPhones, and sponsored parties, and it was fun. And people could dance, and be wild, or sit and talk. Chioma Nnadi: I heard he was a really good dancer. Amanda: Yeah. He told me as a boy, he was sot of a champion ballroom dancer- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Amanda: Reading a biography recently- Chloe Malle: Wow. Amanda: Um, he also did ballroom dancing when he first came to Paris. Chloe Malle: Oh my gosh, how interesting. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Amanda: So by the time... I mean, when you see him dance with... I mean, there's a photograph in the room I stay in in the [inaudible 00:16:38] Hotel in Rome, um, one of the rooms is ded-... Sort of the Karl room, and that's where I always sleep. And there's a photograph of Karl dancing, waltzing with her, and you can just see- Chioma Nnadi: Okay, great. Amanda: In the way his body is- Chloe Malle: Did you ever dance with him? Amanda: Yes. [laughing] I can remember Eddie was on-... Eddie Slamane was one of the ones. We were invited for dance classes, but we had, like, a French couple- Chloe Malle: Oh my gosh. Chioma Nnadi: Hilarious. Amanda: Um, and the guy danced with the girls, and the woman danced with the guys, and Karl had a floor, a sprung wooden dance floor put into one of the rooms in 51 Rue de l'Université. Chloe Malle: Oh my God. Amanda: And we had dance lessons. I learned the cha-cha-cha, and the rumba. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, fun. Amanda: But I also- Chloe Malle: Wait, so, so, so you're in Karl's, um- Amanda: House. Chloe Malle: House. Chioma Nnadi: Home. [laughing] Chloe Malle: On this special floor that's been installed for these dance classes- Amanda: Yeah. Chloe Malle: There's two sort of, you know- Amanda: Dance teachers. Chloe Malle: Dance teachers, there's you, Eddie Slamane, and Karl- Amanda: And [inaudible 00:17:36] and I think... I think was Princess Caroline there at one point? Chloe Malle: Oh my God. Amanda: The different people would come and go. Chloe Malle: Wow. And do you still now sometimes, when you dance at a wedding, or at a party, do you think, "Oh, I learned this cha-cha then?" Amanda: No, I did, I did, and I actually then had... I then continued 'cause I thought it was quite good to exercise that part of my brain, so- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Did Karl have dance shoes? Amanda: He's... No. Chloe Malle: Okay. [laughing] Amanda: I mean, his shoes were dancing shoes- Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: 'Cause they've got a sort of Cuban heel- Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, that's true. Amanda: [inaudible 00:18:08] I witnessed Karl dance, waltzing with Oscar de la Renta, um, of such heartbreaking rhythm and beauty, those two, both of them. Chloe Malle: Oh, where? Amanda: It was in New York, actually. I remember [inaudible 00:18:21] was there, and Thomas. I can't remember the sit-... I can't remember the event. Ana was there. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] It sounds like fun. Amanda: Round and round, they went. Chloe Malle: Oh my God. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Amanda: It was so beautiful, the sort of attitude of their bodies. I mean, fluent. The lead was Oscar. Chloe Malle: Ah, what a fabulous image. Chioma Nnadi: Incredible. Yeah. Amanda: Fabulous, right? Chioma Nnadi: I love that. Chloe Malle: Were there other things like that that you did with Karl that were non-work related but really sort of fun, eccentric things? I don't know, I was just thinking this morning, like, did Karl ever ride a roller coaster, or did you ever go... Just go to the movie theater, sort of like normal people? Amanda: I took him... I took him to the th-... The cinema once. I wanted him to see, um, Sophia's film, Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:19:03] Amanda: Lost in Translation. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, Lost in Translation. Amanda: And I took him to the Pagoda Cinema in Paris, which I really loved- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Amanda: Which is closed now, and I discovered something. In dark places, dark, warm places where nobody's looking at him, Karl falls asleep. [laughing] And he fell asleep in there after the first five minutes. Chloe Malle: Happens to the best of us. Amanda: I was like- Chioma Nnadi: That's me too. Glad I have something in common with Karl. Amanda: Right? That you do, so, so that's what happened, um, so I didn't do that again. Chloe Malle: Did people stop him often when you were out with him, sort of on the street? Amanda: Yes. Not to begin with. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Amanda: To begin with, I mean, in the early days, walking to the floor on a June evening- Chloe Malle: Café de Flore- Amanda: Yes. Chloe Malle: For, for those who don't know. Amanda: Um, it would be a lovely... We'd go to the newspaper kiosk that was right out- outside the bookshop- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Amanda: Which he always brought his books in before he had [inaudible 00:19:56] Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Amanda: And then, so there'd be books and then all the magazines. Chloe Malle: What, what were his favorite magazines and newspapers to read? Amanda: All of them. [laughing] The trashier the better, all the way through to- Chloe Malle: Like, would he read, really, those trashy French- Amanda: [inaudible 00:20:15] Chloe Malle: Ones like Closer, and Gella, and all those? Amanda: Yeah. There's one called [inaudible 00:20:21] Chloe Malle: Yes. Amanda: And then he'd buy sort of like, sports things for Sebastian, and I could choose something, and I was his- Chloe Malle: Sebastian was his- Amanda: [inaudible 00:20:28] His PA, security, like, driver, everything. Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: And then we'd go into the floor, the café floor- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Amanda: And then we'd eat. We'd have- Chloe Malle: What would you eat? Amanda: [inaudible 00:20:41] Chloe Malle: I don't know what that is. Amanda: Okay. So initially when, you know, when I first met Karl, I can remember... I can remember him, um, asking me if I'd ever eaten a frankfurter, which I hadn't, so he... So he ordered me a frankfurter. Chioma Nnadi: They're delicious. Amanda: And- Chloe Malle: They are. Amanda: A- and that's the occasion where it was, like, a real example of Karl's mercurial mind was that he would just keep asking you questions just as you're trying to eat your way through a frankfurter. [laughing] Like, you know, "What's your favorite Emily Dickinson poem?" Um, and [inaudible 00:21:14] it's a Norwegian smoked salmon. Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Chloe Malle: Ooh, delicious. Amanda: Yeah, delicious with a little bit horseradish, I think, or something- Chloe Malle: Mm. Chioma Nnadi: Ooh. Amanda: And so, it was really, really, really delicious. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: So that was the order for both of you? What, what is... What was Karl drinking at Café de Flore? Amanda: Same always. Coca Light. Always, always, always. [laughing] Chloe Malle: Coca Light should have sponsored this Met Gal. Chioma Nnadi: I know. Amanda: Right? Chioma Nnadi: I know. I'm surprised they don't. I mean, he had such a fast moving mind. What was his... What was his daily routine, what was his process like, what was he like working with? Amanda: I wasn't there in the morning. Chioma Nnadi: Right, right, right, of course. Of course. Amanda: I don't really know what his daily routine was. But I mean, I do know from staying with him, 'cause he very generously would invite some of us to stay with him in Biarritz when he had a house [inaudible 00:22:04] which was heavenly. Chloe Malle: What would you do when you would go visit? Amanda: You'd do all the things you always dreamt of doing but when you're at home, you can't 'cause you don't have time. So, in my case, it would be painting, and reading, and actually, I learned to surf with my kids. Chloe Malle: Wow. Chioma Nnadi: How fun. Amanda: It was, was amazing. From having a room but one next door to his, that... He would not emerge out of his bedrooms, which all had his tables and desks covered with his profusion of- Chloe Malle: Mm. Amanda: Eyeshadows that he used for coloring, and blocks, and pens, and books, and magazines, and [inaudible 00:22:46] and iPhones, and iPhones, and all of it that he actually, he didn't begin the whole process of getting dressed, which in itself, you know, involved powdering the hair, and putting into its- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Amanda: Pony-... 18th century ponytail. Chloe Malle: Would he do that personally, or no? Amanda: Yes. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Amanda: [inaudible 00:23:05] it was a two hour routine he had. I mean, imagine- Chloe Malle: Really? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Amanda: Imagine the stiff collars, imagine his shirts did up with buttons behind, like a dress- Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Amanda: So that you didn't have a button thing happening here. Chloe Malle: Wow, like a priest. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Amanda: But you never s-... You... Yeah. You never saw the buttons 'cause you'd have the tie here, but there was no button cleavage. Chloe Malle: Wow. I'm sorry, but so who's buttoning it, Sebastian? I mean- Amanda: No. He did it all. Yes, I know. Chloe Malle: Good grief. Okay. Amanda: Well, he was... He was strong and- Chloe Malle: Dextrous. Amanda: And, and pretty flexible, and he'd done a lot of body building back in the day. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Amanda: Um, which you'd think would make that harder, but anyway. [laughing] Chioma Nnadi: Doesn't that tighten you up? Amanda: He did... He did it. Nobody else did it. Chloe Malle: Well, that's a feat in itself. Amanda: Mm. You know, jewelry choice, cuff links, everything was done spontaneously. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Wow. Chloe Malle: But I'm sorry, would you ever see him before that ha-... Transformation had taken place, like what was the pajama situation? Amanda: Only once. [laughing] Only once. Chloe Malle: Wow. Amanda: I think Karl wouldn't mind me saying this, and, and my daughter T- Tallulah also bumped into him once. We were in Biarritz, and so my room, and my children's room were above. Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: And there's a flight of stairs, and the stairs ended just outside his bedroom door, which he would come out of, walk three strides to another door, which was one of his dressing rooms, and then a... Probably the en suite bathroom, and things like that. Chloe Malle: Mm. Amanda: So I came down the stairs, bouncy, bouncy, back, probably gonna go and do some yoga, or gonna go and have breakfast, or actually probably go surfing. Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: Quite sort of horrid, and the door opens and Karl emerges. We both give each other a fright, like [laughing] both of us, like... He is as white as a ghost in a long, white, like a nightdress- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Amanda: But it's like, a chemise, [inaudible 00:24:56] Chloe Malle: He sounds like Ebeneezer Scrooge. Chioma Nnadi: I love. Amanda: And his hair is in a complete white halo around his head. No, no dark glasses- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Amanda: Just these incredibly kind, curious, searching, light brown eyes. Chioma Nnadi: Aw. Aw. Amanda: So we both [inaudible 00:25:15] and we both ran away. That was the Karl without that extremely polished- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Amanda: Highly recognizable disguise. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Wow. Incredible. Chloe Malle: Wow. Well, speaking of his homes, I mean, I, I love looking at pictures of all his many homes over the years, but also just the amount of stuff. I mean, you talked about his desk. Amanda: Mm. Chloe Malle: Uh, the pictures just actually give me sort of a heart attack because- Amanda: I know. Chloe Malle: It's just heaving with papers- Amanda: I know. Chloe Malle: And then there's one photo of [inaudible 00:25:46] sort of navigating through- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, the [inaudible 00:25:49] is incredible. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: That was the last portrait of him for Vogue. Chloe Malle: Really? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: What was... What was it... What were his collections like? What was... I mean, I know that he was a prodigious reader, but, but where... Did he sort of... Was he one of those people who collected things and then sold them, or did he store them, or keep them out? Like, what was that process like? Amanda: There was a sort of... Dare I say it, a sort of aesthetic retail therapy going on, [laughing] but he... What he would buy, furniture, te-... Or how he would have his houses... Homes decorated, and you could say there's a parallel here with the way he worked. He was never satisfied. At the point of completion... Mm, is this actually a symbol of love for him? There was a sort of purging, like, he would- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Amanda: Almost like his fear was to be stuck, to be stuck in an earthly paradise- Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Amanda: Instead of being free within it. So however much he loved his houses, his homes, the... His... The things he'd collected, he was prepared to let all of those... These go. I mean, I sort of think that's very philosophical of him. He can detach, and that, that is his great power. Um- Chloe Malle: Well, didn't he have a recreation of his childhood bedroom in one of his homes? Is that [inaudible 00:27:13] Amanda: Oh, all of them. I never really thought of it being bizarre. I thought a bit- Chloe Malle: Well, not bizarre. It's specific. Amanda: It's very specific because he would have... I mean, in Paris, 51 Rue de l'Université, there was... The room that I stayed in, actually a lot, and Sylvia Fendi stayed in it, it's like this little... With secessionist furniture, this little t-... Little, tiny bed, extreme comfort of a special feathery mattress. Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Chloe Malle: I mean, Amanda, what I always find fascinating, and I think he was the first person to do this, was he was producing Chanel Couture, but also was the creative director of Magnum ice cream. What were some of the most unexpected [inaudible 00:27:50] And, and clearly he was... Had such a voracious intellectual appetite, but were... What were some of the more amusing sort of pop cultural obsessions he had? Like, was he watching the Real Housewives equivalent in France type of thing? Or- Amanda: No. Chloe Malle: Like, what, what TV was he sort of- Amanda: Okay, the TV was on, 'cause I... We, uh- Chioma Nnadi: I was gonna say, didn't he watch TV? Amanda: Yeah. I, uh... When I was in Paris, he very sweetly and kindly, you know, the English [inaudible 00:28:18] all alone, would invite me every night for dinner at his- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Amanda: At his home. So, he had a- Chloe Malle: What would you eat? Amanda: Number, number eight [inaudible 00:28:28] was the house... Even though it was like, fully equipped with another... With beautiful, he designed, you know, the metalwork, and the beautiful chandelier, and his German posters, but there was a bed and everything there, but he only ate there because actually what he didn't want was the sound of the chefs, and the doors banging, and deliveries, and things like that where he was working. Chioma Nnadi: Right, right. Chloe Malle: Wow. Amanda: So lunch and breakfast was taken to him, like, two blocks away. Chioma Nnadi: I love that. Ah. [laughing] [inaudible 00:28:59] Amanda: But for supper, it... We would sit at this wonderful sort of slate black table with the, the Jensen silver candelabras- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Amanda: With this giant screen, usually with the news on kind of a, a loop. Chloe Malle: Oh my God. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Amanda: But, there was- Chloe Malle: Which channel? Amanda: I don't know, it was French news. Chloe Malle: Like a French canal news, or whatever? Amanda: Yes. Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: Then there was this program that he liked to watch, which was... I don't know the name, you could... Must look it up. It was about typical French couples, and each, each program would be based on one couple, which would be stereotypical French society- Chloe Malle: Like a reality show? Amanda: No, they were actors. Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: I mean, terribly funny things happened. Chioma Nnadi: Sounds like a French tele novella. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Amanda: It was... I mean, it was like, really badly filmed, really awful lighting, and everything, as far as I could tell, and I didn't get the jokes 'cause they were so sort of indelibly French that I couldn't even get there. I didn't think it was very funny, really, but Karl did. And he knew it was bad. I mean, he would say, "I'm sorry. I'm sorry for this." But he- Chioma Nnadi: Everybody has a guilty pleasure. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Amanda: But I couldn't get... You couldn't... I couldn't get up and leave, I had to wait. We had to... You know, we always waited until he decided to get up and leave. Chloe Malle: Oh, how funny. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, you must have the best collection of Karl, Fendi, Chanel- Chloe Malle: Wasn't it part of your contract- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: That you got a Couture dress every year? Amanda: Thank you, thank you, from the bottom of my heart, Karl and Chanel. I am blessed and yes, I do have some extraordinary pieces. Chloe Malle: So, how do decide what to wear? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, how, how are you gonna... What are you gonna wear for the Met? Amanda: So, okay. This is all a difficult thing. So part... Answer to part one is it was far too a big a thing for me. I'm... I find it really difficult to say thank you, I find it really difficult. I think a lot of women... I think a lot of do. Actually not just women, all of us, some of us, find it very difficult to be given things unless you feel you've kind of earned it. And so choosing, I would n-... I w-... I was very, I suppose quite intellectual about it, so none of my pieces are heavily embroidered, or- Chloe Malle: Oh. Amanda: Colored, or- Chloe Malle: How interesting. Amanda: You know, they're almost like an X- Ray, so they are the shadow- Chloe Malle: Hm. Amanda: Of Karl's outline- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Amanda: His design proposition for each Couture collection. [inaudible 00:31:28] those collections where I didn't dare ask 'cause I felt I had not really been present enough. Chloe Malle: Oh, interesting. Chioma Nnadi: Oh. Amanda: I was like, yeah. There's one season I missed. Chloe Malle: That's very monastic of you. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Amanda: I know. However, to talk about my blessed dress for the Met, which I tried on... I didn't dare try it on for ages 'cause it was like, "Oh, I'm gonna fit from 2007." [laughing] Um, uh, so Tallulah's like, "Come on, mom. Let's do it." So we tried it on, it fitted. Chioma Nnadi: Yay. Chloe Malle: Yay. Amanda: But we both looked at each other and went, "Mm, mom, this dress smells of perfume." And then I'm like... 'Cause I don't really wear perfume. I mean, I guess that's just... Maybe a little, but it's a very natural- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Amanda: I know whose perfume that is. That's Daphne Guinness's because, oh, she was the last person to wear this dress when Karl took the photograph of us swapping identities. Chloe Malle: Oh my God. Chioma Nnadi: Oh my God. Amanda: [inaudible 00:32:27] Chloe Malle: Wow. Amanda: But I thought I took the dress dry cleaned. [laughing] Clearly I haven't, and it has got... What Andrew explained to me, or he explained in the Charles James exhibition, inherent vice whereby the body oils, or the oils in perfume begin to erode the silk tulle. Chloe Malle: Oh, no. Amanda: So, we are going to have to be very brave, hold one's head high. [laughing] Like, the tatters of the gown are a testament to a life lived and loved it. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I love that. I love that. Chloe Malle: Wow. Amanda: [inaudible 00:33:03] Chioma Nnadi: Wow, incredible. Chloe Malle: What collection was it from? Amanda: It's actually Fall 2008 Couture, so it was made in 2007. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: Give us a little description, color- Amanda: Um, it's obviously black. Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: But it's got a scribble of [inaudible 00:33:20] so, uh, almost like piping- Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: So it's got a nervous sort of pleating, fine pleating, almost like imagine the edge of the C in moonlight. Chloe Malle: That's a gorgeous, uh, way to think about it. Do you have favorite memory of Karl? Amanda: I have so many. Um, I have so many. Oh, God. I mean, there are mad ones, like when he decided he wanted to photograph me on a horse with very riding... With very high heels, like don't want to fall off a horse in a high heel, carrying a surf board behind a surfer. Chloe Malle: Wow. Amanda: That was in Biarritz, that was- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Amanda: Or- Chloe Malle: Would he go surfing with you guys in Biarritz? Amanda: No, no, no, no, no. No. Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: No. You wouldn't see Karl 'til like, late in... At night. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Amanda: Uh, or when we had a TV dinner, so called, out by his Olympic slate lined, uh, pooled in... Swimming pool in Biarritz again. Chloe Malle: What's his version of a TV dinner? Amanda: Well, it was this, like, a vast TV- Chloe Malle: Okay. Amanda: And we're sitting outside with actually [inaudible 00:34:35] Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: Mm. Amanda: And it's raining, as it often did in Biarritz, and the rain is actually plopping onto the, the plates. That was just a hysterically funny moment. Chloe Malle: Wow. Amanda: When Karl left me on the sidewalk in Moscow in about minus 10- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, Jesus. Chloe Malle: No. Amanda: To go to the airport, and I'm wearing next to nothing Couture. I mean, cold. [laughing] Um, but it was- Chloe Malle: What did you do to deserve that? Amanda: I think he just sped off, I think it was, like, it was a very big dinner and he needed to get back to Paris. Chloe Malle: Oh, funny. And when was the last time you saw him? Amanda: Oh, 2019. I mean, the, the last time I saw him was the night before the Couture that he didn't show up to, his first show in the whole of his... The whole of his life that he never actually made it to. Um, God, what must he'd been thinking. Um, and he blamed it on the snow. Anyway, he... Yeah, that was the last time, and we spoke on the phone. There was a Fendi fitting later, uh, at the beginning of February, which I had a stinking cold, and I remember, um, texting him, and he was... And he, he said, "I don't feel well either. The body is not good." And then we spoke on the phone, um, but the last time I saw him was that night before the show, and he was visibly really not, not well, and he valiantly... You know, he didn't let that show during the fi-... It was like, the final accessorization fitting, so the actual, the... Each girl would come and stand before Karl, and he would check that everything's right, every accessory, every... You know, the attitude, shoe, everything, and he, he was, you know, courageous, and valiant, and never... You know, apart from looking like he was sort of slumped in his chair, and he was... I think the swelling was due to the, um, radiotherapy which he was having a lot of, but then in the lift going down... And I remember him saying, "You don't mind if we don't... We don't go back for dinner?" Which I completely understood 'cause he was sort of literally leaning against the wall of the, the lift, and coming apart, which was so unlike Karl. And without his dark glasses, I could see that his eyes were looking directly at me, and it felt like h- his soft brown eyes had turned black, like he was looking from far, far away, from a place far away, almost like, "I can hardly reach you, Amanda." Yeah. Chloe Malle: Wow. I'm crying. Chioma Nnadi: I know. I think... I mean, I mean, it was so- Amanda: My false eyelashes are [inaudible 00:37:34] Chioma Nnadi: Love to hear you say that you felt like Karl was in, in the room when you... When you walked through the exhibit. I mean- Amanda: Wait, and feel it. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I'm excited. I'm very excited to go here. Amanda: Wait, you could... And tell me if you think I'm right. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely will. Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Chloe Malle: Thank you, Amanda. Chioma Nnadi: This was great, thank you. I hope- Amanda: No, thank you. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: We can't wait to see your dress- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, we can't wait. Amanda: This is such... Chloe Malle: Disintegrate on the red carpet in front of our very eyes. [laughing] Amanda: Yeah, exactly. [inaudible 00:37:59] a mermaid's not gonna come out of the moonlight water, it's actually a naked Miss Havisham. Wait. Chioma Nnadi: The Run-Through will be back next Tuesday with a special episode recapping the Met Gala. Hope to see you then. Chloe Malle: It'll be very early, and we'll be very tired- Chioma Nnadi: Woo, lots of coffee. Chloe Malle: But lots of gossip. [laughing] Chioma Nnadi: Lots of gossip and coffee. The Run-Through with Vogue is production of Conde Nast entertainment. See you next week. Chloe Malle: Bye.