Chloe Malle: This is The Run-Through. I'm Chloe Malle. Chioma Nnadi: And I'm Chioma Nnadi. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: And I'm struggling to find where we are in the script. I'm in- I'm midway down, is there a top part? Chloe Malle: It's the thing that says, "Script," on the top. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, dear, I'm in headlines. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Coming up on today's show, we have Elle Fanning of the great, and also who is great. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: And the photographer behind the most recent Vogue cover, which just dropped, featuring the one and only Margot Robbie, Barbie herself. He's going to give us the inside scoop on what it's like shooting a cover for Vogue Magazine. Chioma Nnadi: But as always, we have to start with our fashion and culture news, and we're lucky enough to have someone who's joining us in the studio today. Sarah, do you want to introduce yourself? Sarah Spellings: Sure. My name is Sarah Spellings, I am fashion news editor for vogue.com. Chioma Nnadi: So, big week for fashion news. Sarah Spellings: Yes, very, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: Uh, the Cannes Film Festival is going, one of the biggest red carpets of the year, if not the biggest. Chioma Nnadi: It does feel like it, right? It feels like it's- it's eclipsed the Oscars... Sarah Spellings: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: ... with excitement and people play more. I don't know wha- I think I guess there's just less- less pressure. What have been some of the highlights so far? Sarah Spellings: So far, I loved Naomi Campbell in f- feathered pink Valentino, it was just really pretty. I mean, Jennifer Lawrence looked really stunning in this very classic lipstick red Dior ballgown with a stole, it was so Old Hollywood, but she wore it with flip flops. Chloe Malle: Yeah, can we talk about the... Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, the- the shoe debacle. Chloe Malle: ... shoe free. Sarah Spellings: Yeah. Yeah, um, always a thing at Cannes. So, Cannes used to have, and I don't think it was ever official, but it was a enforced unofficial rule that you had to wear stilettos if you were a woman walking the red carpet. Chloe Malle: It's so crazy, [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: It's... [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: It's so un- it's, like, so archaic. Sarah Spellings: Yeah, it's so archaic, and of course people started to, you know, defy it. Kristen Stewart famously took off her heels when she was jury member, so it was a big deal, and she walked the red carpet barefoot. Julia Roberts also walked the red carpet barefoot I think in 2016. And there have been reports over the years of people getting turned away from events because they're not wearing high heels, and so it is kind of a big deal, but this year you see a lot of people, you know, wearing flat shoes or non-shoe shoes or barefoot, as in... Chioma Nnadi: I know. Uh, like, Isa- Isabelle Huppert wore some very interesting non-shoe shoes, can you elaborate? Sarah Spellings: Yeah- Chloe Malle: What does that mean? Chioma Nnadi: Well- Sarah Spellings: So, non-shoe shoes are, like- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: ... uh, they're sometimes, like, barely there shoes, like the mesh shoes at The Row. Chloe Malle: Okay. Sarah Spellings: But sometimes they're shoes that look like you're not wearing any shoes at all. And so Isabelle Huppert, she was actually wearing heels but they were molded, flesh toned heels, that kind of looked like hooves almost, [inaudible 00:03:06] toes. Chloe Malle: Oh, sounds terrible. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, [inaudible 00:03:07], they were a little terrifying for me. Sarah Spellings: But... Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: But- Sarah Spellings: It's a little freaky. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Sarah Spellings: I like a surprise hoof. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: Or a- or a flip flip with a ballgown, [laughs]. Keeps it interesting. Chloe Malle: Why did Cate Blanchett not wear shoes? Sarah Spellings: Oh, so she... Um, she went barefoot while she was presenting an award to an Iranian female filmmaker, um, and it was a statement on women's rights and women's freedom. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, is she- she's the first person to go barefoot this year. There's no- no other barefoot, [laughs]... Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: ... [inaudible 00:03:44] barefoot warriors. Sarah Spellings: [inaudible 00:03:45]. Barefoot Contessa, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: But the barefoot trend, as I discovered, is a big thing, like, men are doing it, Jacob Elordi in- in LA just casually going out with his buddies was photographed walking around barefoot in LA. Sarah Spellings: And Shawn Mendes. Chloe Malle: I'm sorry, [inaudible 00:04:01]. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: They're just not wearing shoes? Chioma Nnadi: They're not wearing shoes. Chloe Malle: Is this... I mean, there was a whole running trend of running barefoot. Chioma Nnadi: Grounding. Yes. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: Al- also isn't the thing called grounding where it's [inaudible 00:04:12]. Chloe Malle: But that's about... Isn't that about, like, grass? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: This is, like, you're walking on the sidewalks of Los Angeles, what if there's a shattered beer bottle? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: I don't understand, [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: That'd be my concern as well. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I think it's a terrible idea. In, like, a really... In a nutshell- Sarah Spellings: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: ... it's a terrible idea. Sarah Spellings: But it's a trend. Chioma Nnadi: It's a trend, it's a trend. But completely unrelated to the- to the red carpet trend of Cannes, but also happening. This is when Cannes and barefoot boy summer collide, it hasn't been the biggest scandal of the week, has it? I mean, we have- we have the smoking scandal. Sarah Spellings: Oh, yes. I think this is a scandal specifically within the vintage lovers community, but- Chloe Malle: It's a micro-scandal, [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: [laughs], [inaudible 00:04:50]. Chioma Nnadi: Storm in a teacup is what the British would say. Chloe Malle: Yes, exactly. Sarah Spellings: Which is the best kind of scandal. Chloe Malle: Yes, [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: That's my favorite. Um, Lily-Rose Depp attended The Idol premiere wearing a fall 1994 Chanel dress- Chloe Malle: At Cannes. Sarah Spellings: ... that was the original... At Cannes, at Cannes. And she looked amazing and there was a video of her walking out of her hotel looking, you know, as chic as can be, and she's, like, smoking a long cigarette, and there's a prominent vintage dealer, uh, Shrimpton Couture, who posted on Instagram saying that she thought it was never a good idea to smoke in something so precious and an archival vintage and such a... You know, a dress that Christy Turlington wore, it was kind of disrespectful to be smoking a cigarette beforehand. Chloe Malle: Because, what, the smoke can br- like, break down the garment or it just- it makes it smells? Sarah Spellings: It hangs on the garment and it- Chloe Malle: Okay. Sarah Spellings: ... uh, my understanding is that it's hard to clean. A lot of times when you're buying vintage online, a reputable dealer will say, "In a smoke free, pet free household," or, you know- Chloe Malle: Oh, interesting. Sarah Spellings: ... something to those lines, to ensure the buyer that the garment is still in good condition and I guess mostly free of smell. Um, but I think this kind of goes into a larger conversation people are starting to have. Now that we see so many celebrities wearing these- Chioma Nnadi: It goes back to Kim, doesn't it? Chloe Malle: Ugh, it always goes back to that goddamn dress. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: It all... It all goes back to Kim, [laughs]. I think it was very interesting that she wore it and I think now we see so many celebrities wearing these holy grail vintage pieces, and so it makes sense that we're also having the conversation around what responsibility do you have to the dress if you're going to wear it. Chloe Malle: So, now that brings up... 'Cause a lot of people are wearing vintage in an effort to be more eco friendly and eco conscious, uh, but now we're worried about the state of garment, it- like the Marilyn dress or now this smokey, um... Chioma Nnadi: The state of the garment? What about the pe- people? Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Chioma is highly skeptical. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs], [inaudible 00:06:56]. Kidding, kidding, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: So, now people are recreating vintage looks to wear on the red carpet? Sarah Spellings: Mm-hmm. Yeah, Natalie Portman wore a recreation of the Dior Junon dress. Chloe Malle: Gorgeous, gorgeous dress. Sarah Spellings: Absolutely stunning. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Strapless, white toile with sort of navy payette encrusted scallops. Sarah Spellings: Yeah, yeah, and it's from, I think, 1949, and she wore a total recreation of it on the red carpet. Chloe Malle: By Dior. Sarah Spellings: Ye- by Dior, which, sorry to bring up Kim again, but I do think it is a direct, you know, backlash to that Marilyn moment, is wearing something from a kind of similar-ish time period- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Sarah Spellings: ... but just doing the full recreation. 'Cause the original is in The Met I think. Chloe Malle: Okay. Well, it's kind of like couture, where one of the perks of couture is that you're- it's almost like an NFT, like, you are buying this individual p- artistic output, and it's not able to be recreated, and in a way a vintage garment kind of feels like that. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, hmm. Chloe Malle: It's like, there is now this one piece. Chioma Nnadi: I don't know, I mean, I think it does follow in this trend for nostalgia and we're seeing so many brands, Jean Paul Gaultier included, reissuing certain collections. Like, I own some- some pretty sought a- after Jean Paul Gaultier pieces that have been recreated, um... Chloe Malle: Does that annoy you? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, it does annoy me, because it devalues the one that I have. I mean, I guess there's still maybe really good vintage dealers know the difference between the new. I have- I have- I have two pieces that have been reissued. Sarah Spellings: I- I always like to see a bit of sustainability on the red carpet, as much as it can be. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Sarah Spellings: And so I think that's one thing that was so cool about the shift to vintage, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: But you like Natalie Portman, which was a recreation. Sarah Spellings: Yes, I think she looked amazing. I think that particular design, it is much better for that dress to stay in the museum. Chioma Nnadi: Okay, so it's a fine line here. Chloe Malle: Maybe it's a special occasion moment. Sarah Spellings: Okay. Chloe Malle: I just don't think you need to be doing it with every celebrity. Sarah Spellings: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Sarah Spellings: I think one thing for me that's satisfying about seeing vintage is this idea about enduring power of design- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Sarah Spellings: ... and that these things really can last, and that's something that is maybe missing from our current fashion moment- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Sarah Spellings: Is the sense that things won't last. And so I get much more satisfaction out of Nicole Kidman wearing the actual 2005 dress and seeing how beautiful it is and how beautiful she is than necessarily a recreation, even though I think Natalie Portman looked amazing, just subjectively. Chloe Malle: Right. Chioma Nnadi: It's certainly more special- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... and it's a full circle moment because she actually wore that dress and it was hers. Sarah Spellings: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Chloe Malle: The Little Mermaid comes out this weekend, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, and, you know, Sarah has been doing some interesting reporting around what we're calling method dressing, which- Chloe Malle: What is method dressing? Chioma Nnadi: So, Halle Bailey is The Little Mermaid, and she has- she has basically done her entire press tour, um, with her character in mind. So, she's taken to the red carpet- Chloe Malle: Uh-oh. Chioma Nnadi: ... in looks that are inspired by her character. Chloe Malle: That sounds ju- just not good. Sarah Spellings: Um, like, ever since the Oscars, she came to the Oscars in a kind of teal, like, beautiful blue, full skirted gown that you couldn't look at it and not think Disney princess. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Sarah Spellings: And I just started noticing that so many celebrities were dressing in character for their press tours, like- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow, like who else? Sarah Spellings: Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie at Comic Con- Chloe Malle: Right. Sarah Spellings: ... came kind of in Barbie and Ken attire, Ryan wore that shirt that said Greta Gerwig in the Barbie font. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Sarah Spellings: Jenna Ortega also- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Sarah Spellings: ... I think her personal style is so inextricably linked with Wednesday- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Sarah Spellings: ... and now she's starring in Beetlejuice and it's so scream queen-y. It just creates this weird little, like, ouroboros of, you know, you have Margot Robbie dressing as Barbie and then you have Barbiecore and then you have the trend reports of Barbiecore, and then you have the actual movie, and it just, like, sometimes feels like a snake eating its own tail a little bit. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm, definitely. I am excited for the movie, I'm excited for Little Mermaid, I'm actually going to go watch it. Sarah Spellings: Mm-hmm, that'll be fun. Chloe Malle: You are? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: That's cute. Chioma Nnadi: I just need a child to take with me, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:11:13]. Sarah Spellings: You don't need a child to take with you. Chioma Nnadi: I don't know. Sarah Spellings: You're a strong, independent woman. Chloe Malle: I feel like there's going to be adults in there. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, me and my boyfriend were debating about this, we were like, we both secretly want to go see it, and we were like, whose child can we borrow to go see it? [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs], [inaudible 00:11:26], like, rent a kid, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs], no, we'll go see it, we'll go see it, I thi- I think it'll be great. Chloe Malle: I like that, um, poor Melissa McCarthy was getting a lot of shade- Chioma Nnadi: She was? Chloe Malle: ... about her, uh, Ursula makeup. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, dear. Chloe Malle: All the drag queens were very upset, [laughs]. Sarah Spellings: [laughs], oh, my God. Chloe Malle: They said that this really could have been handled better, and it's true that when you look at the pictures, it's, like, the eyebrows are completely uneven, [laughs], and it just feels, like, like, she could have learned a thing or two from Drag Race. Chioma Nnadi: Disney fail, oh, my God. Sarah Spellings: Oh, Melissa. Chloe Malle: I know, I know. All right, ladies, thank you so much. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, thank you so much for joining us, Sarah. Chloe Malle: Um... Sarah Spellings: Yeah, thank you for having me, it's been so much fun. Chloe Malle: The Run-Through will be back in just a moment. Chioma Nnadi: Welcome back to The Run-Through with Vogue. Chloe Malle: This week's big news in the office at Vogue is the Barbie Vogue cover is finally out. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, whoo, that was a hard secret to keep, girl. Chloe Malle: We've been sitting on this for a while. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I feel, like, relieved. Chloe Malle: It is, of course, Margot Robbie and it's amazing, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Ugh, I mean, it is just everything you want from a Barbie cover, it is Margot Robbie looking amazing in a pink Versace look, and of course we- we had to invite Ethan James Green, who shot that marvelous cover, to come to the studio to learn a little bit more about what it's like to- to shoot a cover of that magnitude, and- Chloe Malle: This is a pretty eccentric and fun shoot, and so I think a lot went into it, so it was really fun to hear about the behind the scenes of how that happens, from the set design to run throughs with Anna to feedback between the whole creative team, and they really beautifully transformed Ms. Robbie into a variety of different Barbies. Chioma Nnadi: We are so obsessed with your latest cover story. Chloe Malle: It's so fun. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Can you describe it for people who can't see it as they're listening? Ethan James Green: Um, well, the cover is very pink, with Margot Robbie and it's all about Barbie. And it was an incredible shoot. And Gab styled it and then- Chloe Malle: Gabriella Karefa-Johnson. Ethan James Green: Yeah, and then our good friend, Julie Wagner, who does set but also is very creative, came up with the concept for each picture. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, wow. Ethan James Green: Yeah, and it was so great. Margot was just, like, down to do the best picture, she's- she wanted to do the best Barbie shoot ever. Chioma Nnadi: What- what's she like? Was that your first time meeting her? Ethan James Green: First time meeting her. She was really easy and very professional. And, yeah, just wanted each picture to be the best it could be. Chioma Nnadi: It's quite high concept, so I could imagine it was quite a long day. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Well, we shot every single look that we were hoping to. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Ethan James Green: Which usually you're trimming off, like, two or three- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Ethan James Green: ... um- Chloe Malle: So, how many did that end up being? Ethan James Green: We- we did a cover, a cover try, um- Chloe Malle: Can you tell people what a cover try means? Ethan James Green: So, cover try, when you do a shoot, for Vogue especially, usually there'll be two looks that you guys are hoping to be on the cover. So, you have to approach those two pictures as cover pictures, which is totally different than doing a picture inside a story. Chioma Nnadi: It's a lot of pressure, huh? [laughs]. Ethan James Green: It- it- it can be. Chloe Malle: How does that picture, just for people listening, how does that picture look different from an inside picture? Ethan James Green: Well, you have to think about, like, the- the logo. It has to be simplified a little bit- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: ... because you have all of the text. Um, you also want to try and sum it all up. And for this, like, having the sets and having different characters that she was playing, it wasn't about doing one of those characters, it was more about capturing her, um, and having that image be the Margot moment. Chioma Nnadi: And what- what- what did you say when you heard that it was Barbie, [laughs], Margot? This was- Ethan James Green: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: ... kind of outside of your wheelhouse a bit? Or not so much? Ethan James Green: I mean, maybe a little bit. Chloe Malle: How dare you, Chioma? Chioma Nnadi: No, [laughs]. Ethan James Green: [laughs]. Maybe a little bit. Chloe Malle: Ethan has no wheelhouse, [laughs]. Ethan James Green: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. No, I like ge- when people get outside of their... I don't know, do- comfort zone. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: I think there was an opportunity to go high concept with it. Chloe Malle: Right. Ethan James Green: And that I really get into. And also, Barbie is just such an iconic character, like, everybody knows who Barbie is. So, to be able to play in that world, you don't get that opportunity all the time. Chloe Malle: How did the concept evolve? Like, so you get the idea and you guys are like, "Okay, this is an opportunity to do something wild and fun and interesting and highly conceptual," but then what's the next step? How do you decide what that concept is and what it's going to look like? Ethan James Green: Well, I was asked to do it and then we had a Zoom call with the Vogue team and I had to present an idea. And for me, when I was just starting to look through Barbie, I was really excited by the old Barbie ads, and I thought about being a kid in the '90s- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: ... and seeing ads on TV all the time. Chloe Malle: Do you remember that when you were a kid? Ethan James Green: Oh, my God, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: And then, like, thinking about it now, they were, like, psychotic- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: ... like, it's, like, you know, like... Chloe Malle: Describe one, 'cause I haven't seen those. Ethan James Green: I mean, it's just, like, it starts with, like, a song, and it's, like, this Barbie, this Barbie, blah blah blah- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: ... and then the kids start, like, screaming things, like, "Oh, she can go underwater," or, like, you know, like- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: ... "Her hair changes color," and then the way that each Barbie is sold to you, it's sold to you as the best Barbie ever. Chloe Malle: Right, [laughs]. Ethan James Green: Even though, like, they're going to keep rolling them out, you know? Like, and every single time it's the Barbie you have to have. Chloe Malle: Were you interested in Barbie? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: See, I- I definitely was interested in Barbie, but, like, for me, it wasn't possible... Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: ... in that moment in time. Chloe Malle: So, yo- you- you knew it was off the table so it wasn't like you were even lusting after a Barbie as a kid? You just were sort of, remember these ads playing? Ethan James Green: Yeah. Chloe Malle: And you dove back in to the ad. Ethan James Green: Yeah, re- revisited and then I was looking at vintage, um, pictures of Barbie ads, or- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: ... vintage ads of Barbie. And that's when we did the first meeting, I was like, "I've been looking at these vintage Barbie ads, I like the compositions," and then everyone seemed to be into it and then Julia started working in on it, and then Julia has this thing, I- I always say Julia's right, like, 99.9 of the time. Chloe Malle: Who is Julia? Chioma Nnadi: Set designer. Ethan James Green: Julia Wagner. Chloe Malle: I just... Okay. Ethan James Green: So, she's set designer but she works closely with a lot of photographers on the creative, like, she has, like, a lot of- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, so she's more... She's- she's kind of, like, a [inaudible 00:18:06]. Ethan James Green: Yeah, she's super clever, super smart. Um, and so she kind of was sitting with that and we were talking, and then she kind of came back with a creative deck and it jut was so much better than what I was thinking. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: [laughs], so, yeah. And so it's great too 'cause she does the creative so she knows what's possible with the set, and for something like this, when you're doing, like, constant set changes, you need someone to know how that works and what's possible. Chioma Nnadi: I love the- the- playing with this idea of scale, like, it was just, as you went through, I'm trying to imagine how- when you arrive onset, what you see, because you- you can't really get a sense of how you would create this in one day. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: Well, the most complicated one when you look at the picture, you wouldn't be able to tell. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Ethan James Green: But it's, um- Chloe Malle: What is the most complicated one? Ethan James Green: Margot for President. Chloe Malle: Really? Ethan James Green: Because if you look, there's these pins- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Ethan James Green: ... that she's wearing, and on the prelay at the very end- Chloe Malle: What's a prelay? Ethan James Green: Oh, so a prelay is what you do before a shoot, and you don't always get to do it, when you have it, it's a luxury. Chloe Malle: Okay. Ethan James Green: And it sets you up to just, like, focus on the shoot instead of, like, trying to figure out if you're doing the right light or not, who you- Chloe Malle: So, it's, like, the day before? Ethan James Green: The day before, yeah. Chloe Malle: Okay. Ethan James Green: And then at the end, because we were set up with the lights, Margot wanted to do a picture, and Barbie for President or Margot for President, we had her wearing these pins with herself on them, saying, like, Vote For Me. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: Margot For President. Chloe Malle: This makes me laugh 'cause, uh, Ethan and I worked on one shoot together which was Elizabeth Warren when she was running for President, so- Chioma Nnadi: Wow, completely different beats. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Different- different wannabe President. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Chloe Malle: [inaudible 00:19:50], but also- Chioma Nnadi: Different wannabe President. Ethan James Green: Yeah, yeah, yeah, true, true> Chloe Malle: ... you know, a different Presidential campaign f- of a strong woman. Ethan James Green: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: And, you know what? I'm go- I'm gonna embrace that, [laughs]. Ethan, a podcast is hard, especially for Vogue, because it's not visual. We are all thinking about the shoot and hopefully people are looking it up when they're listening to this, but can you describe, like, the scale, it's- it's- it's, like, an enormous Margot next to a ruler that makes her look tiny, versus what are some of the other examples of how you sort of showed that scale and- and was it all manipulated with props or was some done afterwards? Ethan James Green: It was all done... There's only one picture that it wasn't the actual size. Chloe Malle: Okay. Ethan James Green: Um, we had, like, a six foot pencil. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: So fun. Ethan James Green: We had huge, like, um, pins. Chloe Malle: Did you keep the pencil? Ethan James Green: No, no, no, no. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: Um, we had huge pins. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, win- we- working girl Barbie might be my fave. Chloe Malle: It's so good. Ethan James Green: Yeah, I know, that- that one's pretty good, it's pretty good. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: And it's, like, that whole desk was... It was just Julia's team made these, like, boxes, and then covered them with seamless paper, which you would never know. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Ethan James Green: And I think it's cool that we had a lot of the physical sets because of, like, everything happening with AI, and we have, um, BTS videos that are being published with the story. Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:21:03]. Ethan James Green: So, you'll be able to actually see the sets in their raw form. Chioma Nnadi: 'Cause people I imagine will look at that and think it's, like, generated, but I love that it's, like- Ethan James Green: Yeah, I think people just assume, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. That's pretty awesome. Ethan James Green: There's on- there's only one thing that is not actual size and it's a- a large flowerpot. Chioma Nnadi: Ah. Chloe Malle: Huh. Ethan James Green: That she's rollerskating in front of. Chloe Malle: Okay. You know, I feel like we didn't get the sort of step by step, so you get the co- you get the shoot assignment for a Vogue cover, and then you start working on a Zoom call or a meeting with everyone about what it's going to look like. Are you making a mood board? Are you involved in picking the clothes? Are you choosing the locations? Like, how... What is your process like for that? Ethan James Green: For me, with clothes, I can, like, s- flag if something isn't, like, amazing. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: But, like, at Vogue, it's kind of, like, what has to be done has to be done. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: And when you go into Vogue you have to accept that. Um, but I do really love fashion, and rarely I'll be like, this is God awful. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Ethan James Green: And I think especially if someone has their personal style, then that's, like, amazing. But with clothes, I feel like being in fashion for so long and it not being my job to be like, oh, we need this with this with this, it's almost better for me to be just, like, surprised in the moment. But I love the clothes and I l- love how they can transform and create characters and I'm all about it. I'm just... I can't get that deep, I have to, like- Chioma Nnadi: So, you're not going to be mad when they say, "We need to get the shoe," [laughs]. Ethan James Green: No. No, no, no, like, I, like- Chioma Nnadi: C- 'cause some photographers are, like, "Ugh," [laughs]. Ethan James Green: No, I... [laughs], I, like, love- I love a foot. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: I love a shoe, I love a, li- Chloe Malle: Uh, well, let's talk about Barbie's foot. Ethan James Green: Oh, my God, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: I know, the Barbie foot in the story. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: So, in the story where she's next to this life sized- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... ruler, her- you see her little feet in the- in the sort of, like, the Barbie feet. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Where they're on permanent heels. Chloe Malle: Uh, yeah, and when it came out in the trailer, foot fetishists unite, they got really excited. Chioma Nnadi: [inaudible 00:23:01]. Ethan James Green: Well, yeah, no, I was so glad we got the foot like that. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Ethan James Green: Because I saw on Twitter, like, everyone was, like, freaking about the feet, and I was like, thank God we got the feet like that too. Chloe Malle: I know, I know, [laughs]. Ethan James Green: Um, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: Yeah, it would have been incomplete. Chloe Malle: You really would have missed an opportunity to be, uh, disseminated- Ethan James Green: Yeah, yeah, yeah, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: ... against, uh, the dark web, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, my God. Ethan James Green: Oh. Chloe Malle: How closely do you and Anna work together and what has that... Are you ever... Were you nervous the first time? Ethan James Green: I mean, she's much more involved, I would say, than most editors that I work with. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Ethan James Green: Like, um- Chioma Nnadi: I could see that. Ethan James Green: Everything that... It's very much considered, and, for me, in the beginning it was, like, very, like, you know, I mean, I'm, like, Devil Wears Prada generation, you know? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Right, right, right. Ethan James Green: So, to, like... To- to be, like, working with her and, like, I don't know, that's, like, a crazy dream come true, so it took a second to, like, you know... But I think she's incredible and so considered in a way that I think a lot of editors are not. Chloe Malle: And you're very close with Hari Nef, right? And she's in it. Ethan James Green: Yeah, no, which is so crazy 'cause Hari and I started together. Like, I think she was one of the first people that I asked to take a picture of. Chloe Malle: Oh. Ethan James Green: Because I used to be so shy, and so to see her in this film- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: ... and, like, playing, like, a proper role, and it's, like, if someone would have told us that these things would be happening, I'd be like, oh, my God, like- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Ethan James Green: ... we saw it for ourselves- Chloe Malle: Someone told you- Ethan James Green: ... but, like, I don't know. Chloe Malle: ... in a decade, you guys will both be working on Barbie, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Barbie, [laughs]. Ethan James Green: No, which is so, like... It's, like, we- you- we... You just wouldn't have thought that film. Chioma Nnadi: No. Ethan James Green: But it's so cool. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I love that, I love that. I mean, you worked for a while with the legendary David Armstrong, maybe you can describe it [inaudible 00:24:45]. Ethan James Green: I mean, so David was an incredible photographer, and he worked a bit in fashion. Chloe Malle: How did you meet? Ethan James Green: I met him because he had asked to photograph me for his book, which is a bunch of portraits of male models in his home that he had in Bed-Stuy. And so he took my picture when I was 18, just arrived to New York, first major photographer I ever worked with. And when I was working with him, I told him, "Oh, I'm here in New York, I'm modeling because I want to be a photographer." Chloe Malle: Oh, so you knew, um... Okay. Ethan James Green: Yeah, yeah, no, I knew at a very young age that what I wanted to do- Chloe Malle: When? Ethan James Green: I was, like, 14. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: What was the... Do you remember, like, was there one fashion photo- like, photograph you looked at and you were like, "I want to do that,"? Ethan James Green: I, like... It's funny, it, like, really I remember when I was, I don't know, maybe I would have been four, I remember seeing, like, a Revlon ad. Chloe Malle: Oh, interesting. Ethan James Green: I don't know if it was Revlon or what it was, but it- they used the I'm Too Sexy For My song. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: And I remember it was, like, a Linda Evangelista type- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Ethan James Green: ... with, like, this, like, blonde, like, short haircut, and it- there was, like, a telephone booth, and I just saw it and it... I don't know, there was something, like, [laughs], spiritual or something- Chloe Malle: Like, on a billboard, in a magazine? Ethan James Green: ... it was, like, calling me. Like, it was, like- Chloe Malle: Wow. Ethan James Green: ... this, I just, like, felt so- I don't know, I was so young, but it just, like... It was, like, I don't know, the gravity t- in that moment was crazy. So, I- I- for me, I didn't really... I wasn't exposed to proper fashion photography until I was probably 16, but, going back to David, he had photographed me, uh, during that time of us working together or that first time, I told him that I wanted to be a photographer, and then he right away told me to use his space to take pictures. Chloe Malle: Oh, that's lovely. Ethan James Green: Without him seeing any of my work ever. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: He just right away offered that. And I- I didn't have anything to show him at the time that I felt, like, confident to show him. So, for a while he kept shooting me, I kept going there, I would go and hang out at the house, and then finally I was offered to do an online editorial for Vman when I was, I- I don't know, I would have been maybe 20 or 12. And so I reached out to him, I was like, "Well, I finally have a story," and he was like, "Oh, come to the house, use the house," I photographed my friend, Charlie, and I was editing the first picture. He hadn't seen any of my pictures up until this moment, I was sitting in his parlor, and he walked in and he was like, "Ethan, doll," he was like, "That's fucking divine." Chloe Malle: Ah. Chioma Nnadi: Aw. Ethan James Green: And then he just, like... That gave me this, like, energy to just, like, I don't know, it gave me so much confidence. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: He really was the first person who saw it for me. Chioma Nnadi: And what a person to see it for you, I mean... Ethan James Green: And- Chloe Malle: And were you still modeling then as you were starting to photograph, or? Ethan James Green: Yeah, I had a real, like, fade in fade out, um, moment. Chioma Nnadi: Huh. Chloe Malle: Is there anything you miss from modeling? Chioma Nnadi: You're like... [laughs]. Ethan James Green: No. Chioma Nnadi: Ethan's face right now says, no, I don't even... [laughs]. Ethan James Green: No, I mean, [laughs], like, for me- for me, like, I am so grateful for it and I was so lucky to be able to have that, it really gave me, um, an eye into things that most photographers do not get to see, because I saw- Chloe Malle: Like in what way? Ethan James Green: Well, I saw, like, every type of photographer work- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: ... and how they'd communicate with a model, and, you know, I've worked with the very, like, worst, and I've worked with Steven Meisel, you know, I've- I've worked with everyone. Chioma Nnadi: Well, who are your favorite... I mean, you- you've- you've obviously shot some really amazing people and of- and you started out by shooting your friends and who do you enjoy shooting now? The- is there someone you'd still love to... Someone on your bucket list? Chloe Malle: Who's the dream person? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, who's the dream person? Ethan James Green: I would really like to work with Jim Carrey. Chioma Nnadi: What? Chloe Malle: I did not see that coming. Ethan James Green: I would love to work with Jim Carrey. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, my God. That was a complete surprise. Chloe Malle: I love that. Ethan James Green: Yeah, like, I lo- I love Jim Carrey. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs], I mean, a- amazing actor. Ethan James Green: Yeah, no- Chloe Malle: What is Jim Carrey up to? Good question. Ethan James Green: I know. Chioma Nnadi: Yo- I'm sure he- I'm sure he'd love to have his picture taken by you. Ethan James Green: I mean, it- [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: But I'm, li- yeah. No, I love Jim Carrey, um... Chloe Malle: Did you grow up watching Jim Carrey movies? Ethan James Green: Oh, my God, yeah. Chloe Malle: What was your number one? Ethan James Green: I feel like Liar Liar maybe. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs], I need to go back to them. Ethan James Green: Um, and then, like, I mean, The Grinch. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Ethan James Green: That is, like, one of the best performances- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: ... ever. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Ethan James Green: Like, that is insane. You know, like, that movie's going to stick around a long time. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Love that. Ethan James Green: Like, it's amazing. Chloe Malle: If you can name, like... Wh- who are the top three people you've shot that were the most exciting to you? Ethan James Green: I think Rihanna. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, yeah. Ethan James Green: That was my first Vogue cover ever. Chioma Nnadi: Tha- yeah, and she- she comes and you've got to be ready to p- problem solve there. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: You've got to be ready, [laughs]. Ethan James Green: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, um, Phoebe Waller-Bridge- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, that was- Ethan James Green: ... I shot, like, less than a month after. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Chloe Malle: You still shoot in black and white a lot, yeah? Ethan James Green: Honestly, I mean, with fashion, it's, like, very much, like, probably more color now, but- Chloe Malle: Well, I mean, never seen more color than this Barbie shoot. Ethan James Green: ... if I'm doing it for myself. Chioma Nnadi: That's what I was like- Ethan James Green: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... it's so far from black and white. Chloe Malle: I know. Ethan James Green: [laughs], if I'm doing it for myself, usually I like a little black and white. Chloe Malle: How come? What does it bring? Ethan James Green: I don't know, I shoot mainly digital. Chloe Malle: Okay. Ethan James Green: And so with black and white, it's like I know it's going to age good. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: Okay. Ethan James Green: And a lot of my favorite photographers who are not fashion, it's black and white. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, who are your favorite photographers? Ethan James Green: I mean, David Armstrong. Chioma Nnadi: Of course. Ethan James Green: Um, Steven Meisel. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Ethan James Green: Avedon- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Ethan James Green: ... Penn. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Ethan James Green: Arbus. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, you've also worked... I mean, you've worked not just in photos for us, but you work in videos for us, um, and you- you did a special project last... was it last year? I forgot, I'm m- mixing up my years. Ethan James Green: Oh, the- the doc. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Ethan James Green: Oh, my God. Chloe Malle: What was that? Chioma Nnadi: Did it- did it... It was a do- it was a documentary. Chloe Malle: Oh, the documentary, sorry, I tho- I thought of... Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I mean... Ethan James Green: Yeah, no, um, I had been asked by Vogue to do a piece about Don't Say Gay. It was, like, videos of celebrities talking but I didn't want to do that- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: And, I don't know, just even the name, Don't Say Gay, like, I was, like, I just, like, I think it- it's leaving out, like, a group of people that's going to be hit way harder. You know? Like, it- it- I ju- it's just.. The whole entire thing is just so ignorant, it's like... Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: So, I wanted to go to Texas and I went with my really good friend, Devon Diaz, who's an incredible writer, and- Chioma Nnadi: Devon wrote the story? Chloe Malle: Right. Ethan James Green: Yeah. We did a doc about a little trans girl and her mother and little brother, and in a moment when, um, it's a very scary time to be a trans kid, a trans person, but with this trans kid and, like, a parent that so clearly loves their child- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: ... that they've gone down this path with them, you know, like I- I don't think anyone who's going to go down the path of- Chioma Nnadi: Were they attempting to leave Texas because of the situation? I... Ethan James Green: Well, the- the hard thing is, like, they- they knew they had to leave, but it's something that not everyone can afford to do. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: And a lot of the affordable options are Red states, that you're not- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Ethan James Green: ... really going to be- Chioma Nnadi: Right, safe. Ethan James Green: Yeah. Um, and so it's, like, you have this parent that loves her daughter so much, who comes from a Christian background, um, and for me, that was, like, a really big thing when we chose the family that we worked with, because I- I grew up, like, evangelical- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Ethan James Green: ... and to, like, f- see a family that was very similar but a mother who was affirming her trans child, that was so... And maintaining her faith- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Ethan James Green: ... which I found so incredible that someone would be able to do both things, 'cause usually you're... As a queer person, you're kind of, like, forced to choose, like, you- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Ethan James Green: ... feel like you have to, like... It's one or the other. And this was the first time that I was really seeing the opposite of that. And it was just very eye opening to something that's happening in the country that, like, you wouldn't know unless you love someone who's really dealing with it. Chioma Nnadi: I can't believe we're in this position, in this- in this country, it just seems so... Ethan James Green: Yeah. It's- it's ridiculous. Chioma Nnadi: We're so happy you took the time out to do this- Chloe Malle: Thank you so much for coming, Ethan. Chioma Nnadi: ... we appreciate it. Ethan James Green: Yeah, no, it was so fun. Chioma Nnadi: It was- Chloe Malle: Congratulations, we love this cover. Our next guest on the pod is an actor and a true fashion icon, mostly because she just loves fashion so much, and that is Elle Fanning. And, Chioma, you recently got to hang out with Elle off pod. Chioma Nnadi: I did, I was- I was so lucky, she was my seatmate at the Met Gala. Chloe Malle: Dream. Chioma Nnadi: And I- you know, she came with this beautiful crown of daisies and she also had a bouquet, which I tried to pry out of her hands but she was not having it. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: But we had a really fun conversation about fashion and I just thought she'd be such a fun guest to have on the show 'cause she really enjoys it. Chloe Malle: We spoke to her right before she was off to the Cannes Film Festival and just as season three of The Great premiered. It is a show inspired by the life of Catherine the Great, with Elle in the starring role, and she also executive produces the show, so she's wearing quite a few hats, and also wearing quite a spectacular Cannes look. Chioma Nnadi: She couldn't say too much because, you know, we recorded the show right before Cannes, so she was pretty tight lipped about her looks, but then obviously they were just as spectacular as you'd imagine. There was a- this gorgeous McQueen dress that she wore with a- a sequin encrusted bodice and this long kind of flowing skirt that was just, you know, lived up to everything you want from- from Cannes and from Elle, who really embraces the challenge of Cannes with both hands. Chloe Malle: Hi, Elle. Elle Fanning: Hello, how are you? Chloe Malle: We're so excited to see you. Elle Fanning: Oh, my God, me too. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: Yay, we're doing it. Chioma Nnadi: Well, I was just watching the trailer of the- the new season of The Great, and you have some great, great outfits in the trailer. Um, tell us- Chloe Malle: Oh, my God. Chioma Nnadi: ... yeah. Chloe Malle: The costumes are just heaven. Are they so much fun or are they- they sort of a nightmare? [laughs]. Elle Fanning: They... Well, they're a little bit of both, I mean- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Elle Fanning: ... the workmanship is absolutely amazing, I mean, all the- the costumes on the show are, you know, handmade and designed and Sharon Long is our costume designer, who she did season two and now season three, and she's just a genius with fabrics, especially kind of what she comes up with. There's a toile that I wear this year, I think it- we used on the poster, but it's a toile that she designed that has elements from, like, seasons past, like, we have bears and there's- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, I love that. Elle Fanning: ... a dog on the parachute that's in... And people having sex on my toile. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Oh, my God. Elle Fanning: [inaudible 00:36:22]. So, it's a real- Chioma Nnadi: You should make it into pillowcases, I want that toile, [laughs]. Elle Fanning: I- I think I told her... I think she actually gave me a pillow with it on it, but I want pajamas. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, good- good... That's amazing. Chloe Malle: Oh, that good. A great toile pajama set would be... Elle Fanning: Yes, yeah. I mean, we need to sell those, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Hulu should sell those, that would be a really... [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: I'll bring it up, I will bring it up. But then, of course, you know, the- yeah, the uncomfortability, which people talk about, you know, the corsets- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Elle Fanning: ... takes getting used to. But I also... I like corsets, so- Chloe Malle: Okay. Elle Fanning: ... we- we're glad we don't have to wear them anymore, but there is something about that feeling, I'm like, I li- I like it, I'm like, tighter, tighter, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: No, I know what you mean, I had to wear a corset after I had a C section and it, like, just keeps you in, you know, it's sort of... You feel, like- Elle Fanning: Your posture's better. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, the posture thing is- is real, I've been being... I got fitted for a corset for the first time for the Met and it was game changing. Chloe Malle: Oh, yeah, your dress was sort of a corset. Chioma Nnadi: It did, it did, and- and the designer, uh, Claire Sullivan, she's very inspired by Vivienne Westwood, and I think was there a corset under your... Or no, under your la- Elle Fanning: There was. Chioma Nnadi: There was, there's always a corset with- with Vivienne, [laughs]. Elle Fanning: Yeah, it wasn't- it wasn't extremely tight, this one, you know, 'cause it was a looser shape, but there was a corset, for sure. No one does it better, my God, [inaudible 00:37:37] the best, Vivienne. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, you've worn some pretty amazing Vivienne Westwood dresses. Chloe Malle: Well, everyone dresses. Elle Fanning: That's true. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I know, I know. Chloe Malle: I feel like it's rare that you're doing the red carpet for as long as you have been doing it and from as young, do you have any... Like, what's the... Are there any red carpet regrets where you're like, "Ugh, that was really not the right call,"? Elle Fanning: I don't like to regret anything- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: That's a great- that's a great approach. Elle Fanning: ... [inaudible 00:38:03], but, you know, you look back and you're- you're, like, a teenager having free rein. I think my one regret, I did a fake bang once on a red carpet, ugh. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Okay. Elle Fanning: It's just... Chloe Malle: What outfit was that with? Elle Fanning: It was actually a Versace, it was a great dress, and looking back on it now, I was- I wanted to go for the, like, Claudia Schiffer, like, you know, that- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I know that look. Elle Fanning: ... like, sexy bang look, and I don't want to have bangs and I honestly should have just pulled my hair back. Like, sometimes you're just, like, why didn't I just, like, slick it back- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Elle Fanning: ... and, like, it would have been chicer, but [inaudible 00:38:38]. Chloe Malle: How do you and your stylist work together? Like, what- what's the process? Le- let's say, you know, Cannes is up- close upon us, you've been quite a Cannes... Elle Fanning: Yes, and I'm- I'm going again. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, you are? Oh, amazing. Chloe Malle: Oh, you're going? Elle Fanning: Yes. And I have my dress, it's very special, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, can you tell us or not? Not yet. Elle Fanning: I'm excited. Well, I'll say it's McQueen. Chioma Nnadi: Ugh. Chloe Malle: Ugh, so you choose this incredible McQueen dress, how do you and Samantha get there? Elle Fanning: Well, we... Samantha McMillen, my stylist, we've worked together since I was 13. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: Oh, my gosh. Elle Fanning: So, she has evolved with me, you know, I- I tried some people out but then Samantha just was the complete fit and she had already been working with my sister as well, so she was- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: ... we like to keep things all in the family, like, the people around us, we get very attached to and very close to, and once you're in, you're in. And, like, you see it all, and that's just the way that it works for- for me. Um, and Samantha is just... We have such an intimate relationship and we're always texting and I like looking at the collections, so I send her selects and things that I like and she tries to- to get them. But I think she's also really seen my style evolve and evolved with me, because I think for a long time we were trying to m- make me, you know, have fun with fashion, which- 'cause I- fashion was always a happy place for me, I felt- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: ... accepted by the fashion community, whereas, like, in school, people wanted... You know, you want to wear skinny jeans and, like, American Apparel- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... and T-shirts, and I just, like, wasn't that girl, and I definitely tried to morph into that for a bit. Um, and then I was, like, oh, no, that's not me, and that was probably so a guy would like me. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: Um, but, it was, um... Yeah, Samantha also, you know, growing up, I think we tried to also not make me look too, like, sexy. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: Like, you can... You know? Chloe Malle: Of course. Elle Fanning: There was something, like, that balance there, that was, um, still maintaining the youthful quality and- and all of that, that now that I've gotten older, where we get- you know, it opens more doors and you can experiment more, but... Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: And if you're... I mean, you were the youngest jury member ever at Cannes a few years ago, so you had a lot of red carpet dressing to handle there. Elle Fanning: Yeah. Chloe Malle: What's- what's the secret for that biggest red carpet? Elle Fanning: I think the- there's so many ways you can go, but I do think you have to be impactful and it has to look good from all angles, which is not always true on every red carpet. Chloe Malle: Oh, interesting. Elle Fanning: Because it- it is, like the Met, that they're, you know... It's two sided, so the photographers are behind you and in front of you, so it's, like... Chloe Malle: And, like, drones, I feel like you always see overheads, [laughs]. Elle Fanning: Totally, drones, [inaudible 00:41:23], it is just- it's so massive, it's such a big carpet, that you- you do want an element of drama and it has to have a 360 good view and, like, creating those shapes, like, we always think about, like, angles and- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: ... and shapes, especially in Cannes. Um, and, yeah, gosh, I mean, you can go any way. I always tend to go with the Old Hollywood glamour of it all, because it just feels so... It feels, like, glamorous in kind of that 1950s- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, that Dior look you wore at Cannes was incredible. Elle Fanning: That was one of my favorites, yeah, Stephen Jones, he designed that hat. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: What movie are you going to Cannes for? Elle Fanning: It i- I'm going actually with L'Oréal makeup, because- Chloe Malle: Okay. Elle Fanning: ... they sponsor it, so they invite their ambassadors to come- Chloe Malle: Lovely. Elle Fanning: ... pretty much every year. Yeah, so if I'm available, I will be there. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: I always say I thrive in Cannes- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... like, I'm, like, it is just... Good things happen to me there, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Uh, I- I- I- I was kind of, um... I loved hearing that you found- you shopped for your vintage, um, for one of your several proms, you wore vintage Galliano and you went- you went shopping for it, do you like vintage shopping in LA 'cause there's so many great places? I mean, you're obviously a fashion nerd, how do you keep up with fashion and what's happening? Elle Fanning: Well, it used to be style.com, remember? Which- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Elle Fanning: ... I was, like, such a style.com nerd- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... and I was like- had, like, folders on my computer, like- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, my God. Chloe Malle: Oh, my God. Elle Fanning: And I loved, like, Gemma Ward, and I was like, ugh, hey, like... You know. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Elle Fanning: And just, like- just a- I knew all the models and I was, like, just so obsessed. Um, but, yes, now it is definitely Vogue Runway, um... Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: [laughs], [inaudible 00:43:02]. Um, and, yeah, vintage shopping, I feel like I don't go as much as I used to when I was smaller, but Playclothes is a big one that's still a staple here in LA that I love. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, I've never been, I need to go there. Elle Fanning: Golyester is really good. I- I- I remember I was how old? Maybe... I have no idea, 11, like, 12, probably 12, me and my best friend went to a Katy Perry concert and I was like, I have to look amazing for Katy Perry. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: Like, I realized she was never going to see me, but I had this, like, I was like, I have to look great, and- and I went to Golyester, 'cause I think I read in a magazine that she went to Golyester, so I was, like- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Elle Fanning: ... okay, I'll go to the same store, and I found this amazing orange romper with light blue bows on the shorts, and it had bells inside of the shorts so when you walked you jingled. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: And it was, like, it had Katy Perry written all over it, and I wore it with huge platform, like, orange, um, w- sandals, but, like, wooden wedges. And it just... It was one of my best outfits to date, I will say- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Elle Fanning: ... so, yeah, [inaudible 00:44:09]. Chloe Malle: Do you and Dakota ever share clothes? Elle Fanning: We used to. I used to steal her clothes all the time when I was younger, but now there's a big height difference, I'm much taller and- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Elle Fanning: ... have bigger feet, and so I can't do it anymore. Chloe Malle: We loved hearing that, uh, or reading, that you and Dakota used to, uh, reenact scenes from The Devil Wears Prada. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: All the time, and she was always Miranda, of course. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: Bossing me around. And we would put, like, you know, Coca-Cola in coffee mugs- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... to make it look like coffee, and we set up all... I mean, we had the full desks. When we would play, it was, like, taken very seriously, like, we were already... Our acting chops were already starting 'cause we would do- Chloe Malle: Oh, my God, that is hysterical. Elle Fanning: Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, I- I was always the assistant, like, running around, [inaudible 00:45:02] little... Never get to be the main person- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... with her, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: I- I'm curious to know, what do you like to wear o- you know, on your off days, on your... What's a off duty look, and what- what labels are you feeling? Elle Fanning: I was thinking, like, what is my signature outfit? Like- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: ... if my friends asked, and I think they would say it's a white dress. Like, you can't go wrong with a flowy white dress, or, like, any... It- it just... It works, you can accessorize it, and I- I have a lot of white dresses. I probably nee- and a lot of, like, blue striped button downs- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... when I'm, like, I can't yo- when you... When I see something light blue in the store, I'm always, like, oh, yes, I have to have this, it's like, okay, enough. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: I can't just buy every white dress and light blue skirt. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: It's, like, insane. Um, but I... I mean, I love The Row, I love The Row, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Oh. I wouldn't... 'Cause- Elle Fanning: I've got to say. Chioma Nnadi: ... I wouldn't strike you as a Row girl, 'cause, you know, your- your- your style is quite whimsical and romantic, and they're quite- Elle Fanning: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: ... it's much more- Elle Fanning: Uh, the- Chioma Nnadi: ... sort of pared back. Elle Fanning: Much more minimalist, yeah. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Elle Fanning: Totally. I think I like playing with that, I think off duty I'm probably a little bit more minimal- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: ... than I am on the red carpet. Chioma Nnadi: When you were growing up, who were the people you looked up to as far as style? Elle Fanning: Alexa Chung was my number one. Chioma Nnadi: Oh. Elle Fanning: And I went to the Met Ball with her and Thakoon one year, and I heard that she was, like, the other guest and freaking out. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: And the very, very first Met Ball I ever went to, I met her in passing. Um, and she complimented my outfit, and I just, like- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... freaked out, like- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... now, since- since, I know her, but she was someone, like, I had posters of her, like, on my wall and things like that. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Wow, that's so cute. Elle Fanning: Um, I just think I liked her, you know, the twist, like, she, like, has that- the tomboy and the- the- the cutesy girl, I mean, guess kind of quite '60s, that really works for her. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Elle Fanning: But that was, like, what I was always going for when I was- when I was younger. Now, I think I've kind of ha- I have my own thing, but I definitely looked up to her. Like, Sylvie Vartan, like, I had a lot of, like, posters of her. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: I don't even know who that is. Chioma Nnadi: No, me neither, [laughs]. Elle Fanning: She's this... [inaudible 00:47:18]. Chioma Nnadi: The name is familiar, the name is familiar, who- Elle Fanning: I'm, like... Yes, Sylvie Vartan, what di- she's, like, a '60s, um, French singer. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, okay. Elle Fanning: Like, [inaudible 00:47:25] vibe, I guess, but it was a lot of... It was very '60s, growing up. Chloe Malle: Yeah, very Bardot vibes, okay. Elle Fanning: Yeah, yeah, who- um, Grace Kelly- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: ... I- I want to play her in a movie, I'm like, that's my goal one day. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, is that your dream role? Chloe Malle: That's the dream? Elle Fanning: Yeah, [laughs], it would be just because I want to kind of wear that Cartier ring, I don't know, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: But, um, she for sure is someone that I still think about on the... Like, for the red carpet, because I think you want to look timeless and there something, like, a nod to that glamour of yesteryear, like, you can't go wrong, because there's nothing worse than dating yourself, I think- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: ... when you're on a carpet, or- Chloe Malle: Right. Elle Fanning: ... on s- you know? Like, I think about that a lot with, like, wedding day, which is so far off, but I'm, like, you have to look... It has to be timeless. Chloe Malle: Can you tell us about what projects you have coming up? Elle Fanning: Yes, there, um... Actually there's a- there... There's a couple of things that aren't announced yet that are really exciting, but there is one that's, um, announced, it's with, um, Chris Abbott, um, and Jessica Chastain is producing this one. Chloe Malle: Oh, cool. Elle Fanning: Um, yeah, it's called Maid Of Orleans, we have to figure out when we're going to make it, but it's kind of about the power dynamics on a set between the director and his assistant. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, interesting. Chloe Malle: Oh, cool. Elle Fanning: Yeah, so tha- Chloe Malle: So, you're a- you're an assistant again, like The Devil Wears Prada. Elle Fanning: Exactly. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: I'm typecast, [laughs], it all comes back... This is... No, this is the role I've been training for my whole life. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: Getting coffees, doing the, like... That's right. That's so funny, [inaudible 00:49:02], [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Do you think... I mean, The Great, I- I th- last season really ended on a cliffhanger so I'm very curious to see what's happening now, uh, do you miss it when the seasons end? Do you feel like you're- you know Catherine really well? Elle Fanning: I do. I feel like... Well, the first, when we shot the pilot, I was 20, now I'm 25, so- Chioma Nnadi: Oh, wow. Elle Fanning: ... this show has been a part of my life for the most formative, you know, years of my life thus far. So, she shaped me in a lot of ways and I'm also an executive producer on the show, so- Chloe Malle: How has that been different, approaching a project like that? Elle Fanning: It- it... You know, it was different at first, because I had never really done it before, 'cause I did come onboard, they let me come onboard right away, like, we- before the show was even sold, like, the show was actually a movie at the time and we all decided that it would be a show, so I saw it from the very start, which was such a learning experience, but also I think I learned to really use my voice and stand up for myself, which is kind of like my character, because Catherine is thrown into these situations and she's quite young and you can doubt yourself, and I definitely went through the doubting phase, but I had to also realize, you know, tell myself, you know what? You've been acting since you were two- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... and you have been on a lot of film sets and you do know what you're talking about, you know? Like, don't- you know, don't let someone just because you're a young woman, like, tell you that you don't know what you're talking about. So, I've- I've definitely learned that, not- not on this show, they're all really great, but just with other producing projects and being in rooms with people that you aren't normally in rooms with as an actor. So, it's been really exciting and now I feel quite comfortable in the position, I will say, through doing the show. Chloe Malle: Did you do a lot of crazy research for Catherine or did you want to just sort of be your own Catherine? Elle Fanning: Yeah, I tried to do some research, but then Tony McNamara, who's our showrunner, writer, he wrote The Favorite, um, very tonally similar and things- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: ... but he, you know... I was like, okay, so I'm going to do all this research and everything, and he was like, "You don't need to do that," like, yo- our- our show is... We pride ourselves on the fact that it's not historically accurate, [laughs]. Um, but I did discover, you know, I did a few... She created the rollercoaster- Chloe Malle: Oh, fun. Elle Fanning: ... which we show. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Elle Fanning: And I don't know if you've seen [inaudible 00:51:24] furniture ever. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Elle Fanning: It is covered in vaginas and penises. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: Carved out of wood. Chioma Nnadi: What? Elle Fanning: Yes. Chloe Malle: Wow. Elle Fanning: She was a huge, um... Well, that's where the horse rumor came from- Chioma Nnadi: Oh. Elle Fanning: ... is it was basically, like, the first form of slut shaming, 'cause they said that she fucked a horse, and so- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Elle Fanning: ... because she had so- Chloe Malle: And do we think she did or she just was, uh, a sexually liberated individual? Elle Fanning: No. I think she was a sexually liberated individual- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... I think she had a lot of lovers and loved sex and, you know, but also is a woman in charge, and so they had to belittle her- Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Elle Fanning: ... in other ways. It was all- I guess it's kind of the let them eat cake situation. Chloe Malle: Yeah, another misunderstood monarch. Elle Fanning: Right, yeah, aren't they all? [laughs]. Yeah. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Elle, what is... We're- obviously we're sort of a fashion and culture podcast and we like to hear what are you listening to, reading, watching lately? Like, what's your cultural diet at the moment? Elle Fanning: I mean, I do- I watch Succession every Sunday. Chioma Nnadi: Me too, [laughs]. Elle Fanning: What am I listening to? Well, I mean... Chioma Nnadi: Still Katy Perry or not? Elle Fanning: Ye- I love Katy Perry. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: You know what I do watch, which is, like, no one watches but I still do, American Idol. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs], stop, wow. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Chioma Nnadi: Shocker, now I'm really surprised, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: Yeah, [laughs], so, there you go. I watch also, like, the, uh, Stanley Tucci did the Searching For Italy, well, I'm watching Searching For Mexico with Eva Longoria. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Ah. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow, okay. Chioma Nnadi: Are you a big coo- wha- what are you cooking these days? What's your- what's... Elle Fanning: I am, I- you know, I go through real moments with my cooking, like, I will cook all the time, and- in bursts and then I will just not cook at all and just be ordering food, [laughs], and, like- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... can't stop doing that. So, right now I'm not in a cooking phase, but I did have, like, a lot of Italian cooking phase. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: Like, I was, like, making my pasta and just trying- trying that out. I definitely am a savory... I'm not a baker as much. I did make some, like, choux pastry, like, eclairs that were good, that worked. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: That's complicated. Chloe Malle: That's impressive. Elle Fanning: But I can follow directions pretty well, I'm an actor, so, [laughs], I have to I guess, follow directions. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: But I would love to go off somewhere and take s- cooking classes, that would be really fun. I'll do that one day. Chloe Malle: Elle, tell us about your skin, because I feel like I was listening to a- a interview you did with Conan O'Brien and you guys were talking about how being really pale means that you can't really be outside in the heat doing sports, and also that you just have to be sunscreened up all the time, [laughs]. Elle Fanning: I sh- I know, that was my life, like, the smell of that, my mom, like, and she's like, you know, when the moms are just, like, rubbing their kids down, like, your just- body's moving, it's like, ugh, I- that feeling- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... is, like... And that was me, and, like- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... [inaudible 00:54:18] totally. But, I mean, I will thank her later for sure about that. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: I mean, I'm playing tennis now, so- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: ... I am actually daring to go out and- and play, but I just have to put sunscreen on, I always wear, like, a little visor. I go through, like, hard times with my skin and then great times and it's just... Hormones are crazy. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Elle Fanning: I mean, we all know that. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Elle Fanning: But it just... And I'm just so sensitive and the traveling, that doesn't help. But then sometimes it does, like, you're like, ooh, this water's really good. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: Like, [laughs], like, LA water, I live in the Valley, and it's so bad. Chioma Nnadi: London's not great for he- I hate London water for my hair, oof, it's so hard. Elle Fanning: Better than LA, but- Chioma Nnadi: Oh. Elle Fanning: ... it- I think, yeah, it's, like- I guess it's not... And New York is the best. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. I agree. Elle Fanning: This is, like, absurd, but they- you know, they bring in New York water for- to make bagels. Chloe Malle: Yeah, it's true. Chioma Nnadi: They do? Chloe Malle: Yes, that's the whole thing. Elle Fanning: [inaudible 00:55:13]. Chioma Nnadi: Can't get a good bagel in London. Chloe Malle: Nope, because of the water. Elle Fanning: No. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: I don't even know what that i- like, you know, like, also, like, breakfast sandwiches, it's, like- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, they don't- we don't do that. Elle Fanning: ... not [inaudible 00:55:23]. Chioma Nnadi: Uh-uh. Breakfast sandwiches? Elle Fanning: You don't do that, yeah, it's [inaudible 00:55:24]- Chioma Nnadi: No. Chloe Malle: Listen to the disdain in Chioma's voice, "We don't do that." [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Sa- oh, I'm not a sandwich fan. Elle Fanning: What do you like? You're not a sandwich fan. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-mm, mm-mm. Chloe Malle: Period or just for in the morning? Chioma Nnadi: Period, I just don't, no. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Uh-uh, sorry. Elle Fanning: I... See, no, that's is where we- that's where we differ, I'm, like- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... a hu- [laughs], that's the one thing we differ on. I am a huge sandwich fan, almost so much that I think my last meal might be- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... [inaudible 00:55:53]. Chioma Nnadi: Stop, no. Chloe Malle: Wow. Elle Fanning: So, I like... I literally had a Subway sandwich a minute ago, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: God bless, I really appreciate that, [inaudible 00:56:05]. Elle Fanning: [inaudible 00:56:05], have you ever had Jersey Mike's? Chloe Malle: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: What? No. Chloe Malle: Jersey Mike's was a thing for me in- in college. Chioma Nnadi: What is that? Chloe Malle: [laughs], it's not for you, Chioma. Chioma Nnadi: Okay. Chloe Malle: It's too pedestrian. Elle Fanning: It's really good, [laughs]. It's not for you, it is not for you. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: I just like hot food, I'll- I'll take a warm sandwich or, like, a pressed sandwich, but not cold. Chloe Malle: Elle, what's your Subway order? Elle Fanning: Okay, I- well, I make my own, I get six inch on wheat- Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: ... with, um, turkey, American cheese, um, a lot of lettuce, I love that crunchy- Chloe Malle: I love the crunch. Elle Fanning: Love the crunch. I do banana peppers. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Elle Fanning: A lot of mayo and yellow mustard. And that's it. Chloe Malle: Okay. Uh, before- we're going to let you go- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: ... but I was chuckling that, uh, apparently when you were 13 on Conan you told him your favorite food was a Cobb salad and it, like, made news for weeks, [laughs]. Chioma Nnadi: Re- why? Why would that make... [laughs]. What? Chloe Malle: People were interested. Elle Fanning: I know, I mean, how dumb? I know, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Well, Cobb salad is like a sandwich but without sandwich, so that makes sense. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]. Elle Fanning: [inaudible 00:57:09], yeah, exactly, [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Elle, thank you so, so much. Chioma Nnadi: Ah, it was so fun. Chloe Malle: We're so excited to watch season three, have a fab, fab time in Cannes. Elle Fanning: Thank you, guys, I ho- yeah, we- we really covered it all. Chioma Nnadi: That's it for this episode of The Run-Through. The Run-Through with Vogue is a production of Condé Nast Entertainment. Chloe Malle: The show was produced by Suzie Lechtenberg, Chelsea Daniel, and Alex Jhamb Burns. It's engineered by Jake Lummus, Gabe Quiroga, and Kevin Bourassa, and mixed by Mike Kuchman. See you next week.