Chioma Nnadi: This is the Run-Through with Vogue. I'm Chioma Nnadi. Chloe Malle: And I'm Chloe Malle. So last week was the season two premiere of And Just Like That. Chioma, you're a fan. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. I was waiting for that episode. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: And obviously, you know, the Met ball was kind of a fun one to kick off with, don't we think? Chloe Malle: Oh my God. I mean, I have a lotta thoughts about that, but- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: As if, as if some rich lady could fill her table at the Met Gala with the- Chioma Nnadi: And suddenly change the invite- Chloe Malle: ... willy-nilly and then- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... swap Anthony in for, [inaudible 00:00:30], Harry. Chioma Nnadi: I know. Chloe Malle: I mean, I'm, I, I just clutched my pearls in- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... horror. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Um- Chioma Nnadi: I know. [laughs] I thought you might say that. Whoo! [laughs] Chloe Malle: Nevertheless, I was thrilled to see the Vivienne Westwood dress- Chioma Nnadi: Oh. Chloe Malle: ... back in- Chioma Nnadi: Me- Chloe Malle: ... action. Chioma Nnadi: ... too. Chloe Malle: Many things to look forward to on the new season. We were excited about this, our particular spin on the new season, which- Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: ... was, uh, uh, taking advantage of the legendary Enid Frick, played by- Chioma Nnadi: AKA your mother. Chloe Malle: ... that's right. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: Candice Bergen's big, uh, big Vogue editor cameo in the original series and in the first movie. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Which is when she originally wears that Vivienne Westwood dress, is for a- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: ... Vogue shoot, right? Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: My mother hates doing an interview like this, so it was just for Sarah Jessica and- Chioma Nnadi: She was so- Chloe Malle: ... us. Chioma Nnadi: ... charming, though. Chloe Malle: Hm. That- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Sh- We got her down, here. And it was fun to sort of ... I mean, uh, I, I have to say we have a lot of, uh ... We s- sorta followed in Carrie's footsteps- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... Vogue writers, now turned podcasters. We're really following- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... the Carrie Bradshaw- Chioma Nnadi: What's next? [inaudible 00:01:31] know. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: I know. Well, let's just jump right in. Chloe Malle: All right. So, guys, we are so excited to have you both here today, and Can, would you like to introduce yourself? Candice Bergen: Yes. I'm Candice Bergen. And that's it. Chloe Malle: Okay. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] And, are you on the new season of And Just Like That? Candice Bergen: Well- Chioma Nnadi: Well, you're also Chloe's mom. Chloe Malle: Yeah, so, um, most importantly, Candice is my mother, because- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... otherwise she would never wanna do this. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: This is her nightmare. [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] But I love Sarah Jessica, so I'm so happy to, to do anything with her. Sarah Jessica Parker: Here's something about Candice Bergen. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: This is sincerely what I don't understand. I tried to set the table the last time we spent 16 hours together. Um, was and I, I really mean this, and Chloe, maybe you can organize this but I don't really understand. I came home and I told my husband this. I don't understand why Candice and I aren't friends. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Like, I don't understand why we don't spend time together, or eat together, or talk on the phone, or hang out. Like- Candice Bergen: Well, that's so- Sarah Jessica Parker: ... you are the- [inaudible 00:02:53] Candice Bergen: ... easy. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... people. Y- You are one of the great people ever. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: [inaudible 00:02:59], fun, and funny, and honest, and candid, and observant, and furious. You asked me a million questions about what I was gonna make for dinner. I also asked you about what you were gonna eat when you got home. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: And like- [inaudible 00:03:14] Candice Bergen: Sounds like we'll be making nothing. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: But your mom, Chloe, this will come as no surprise to you, is just ... She's just extraordinary. She is so special. Chloe Malle: Well, I'm glad we got this out there, because now, now we know. And now, and- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... And Just Like That, a friendship is born. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Just Like That. Sarah Jessica Parker: 25 years in the making. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: Thank you, Sarah Jessica, for that. Chioma Nnadi: Lau Chloe Malle: When did you guys first meet? Sarah Jessica Parker: I think maybe, i- it's possible our paths crossed because we share some mutual friends, but very cursory, not, not in any way that would've suggested to me that I had a shot. You know? Like I- [inaudible 00:03:55] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: ... might have been- Chloe Malle: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: ... something that had potential follow-through, but of course, ultimately, the most time spent with her, with her, the woman in the room, with ... who I'm talking about. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: ... um, was on the show. And she was amazing. Also, she's just a great actor. She- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: And she's all real. It's all real. She's listening, she's responding. She's making stuff up, she's, you know. So that's probably the first time I really had t- real time with her, was on the show, the first time around. Candice Bergen: Which was many years ago, now. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yes, indeed. Chloe Malle: What, 23 years ago? 'Cause it was season three? Sarah Jessica Parker: I think it was toward the e- n- Yes. See, the ... was it season three? Chioma Nnadi: Season four, I think. Was it season four? I think- Chloe Malle: I think it was season four- Chioma Nnadi: ... it's season four. Chloe Malle: 'Cause I re-watched it this weekend. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, okay. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: So, yes. So that season. Chloe Malle: A Vogue Idea, yeah, was season- Sarah Jessica Parker: Okay. Chloe Malle: ... three. And I have to say, I hadn't rewatched it since I've worked at Vogue, which has been 12 years, so that's a long time. And it's very funny to go back and see filming at 4 Times Square. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: And I actually, as a high school student, at the time, came to the film set because, of course, as, you know, a 17 year old, her filming at Vogue was just such a thrill. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: And then 10 years later, I was working there. So- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... a real nepo baby alert, there. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] But Can, do you remember filming that episode? Candice Bergen: Sure. Uh, yeah. I remember filming in whatever office it ... I think we used- [inaudible 00:05:26] Chloe Malle: It was the Vogue office. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Candice Bergen: It was the Vogue office. Chloe Malle: But not Anna's office. But- Candice Bergen: No. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Candice Bergen: But ... And I remember seeing the closet- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Candice Bergen: ... with the hundreds of boots, and- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Candice Bergen: ... um, and then I rem- And then we did our later episode in a townhouse, someplace and the East side. And, and, um, yeah. Chloe Malle: And you play Enid, who is m- I feel like everyone says, based on Anna Wintour, but actually, if you rewatch the episode, Carrie references Anna Wintour. So I feel like, and also, Enid is very in the weeds on the actual editing. So I feel like Enid was supposed to be just a general terrifying senior editor. Who did you base the character on? Candice Bergen: Anna. Chloe Malle: Okay. Did you know Anna? How- Candice Bergen: No. Chloe Malle: Okay. So how does sh- Candice Bergen: [laughs] I, I sat in front of her at a screening of a movie. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Chloe Malle: Was not any movie. Uh- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: Candice and I sat in front of Anna and Bee, Anna's daughter, uh, when we were both in college, uh, at the premiere of The Devil Wears Prada. Chioma Nnadi: Stop it. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnadi: Okay, then. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Uh-huh. Candice Bergen: And I've told, definitely told Bee this, I think I've even told Anna this, and Anna, at the end, said to Bee, not inaudibly, "I never said that about writing her reference letter." So- [laughs] [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: So, yes. We sat in front of Anna at not just any movie. But there you go. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: It wasn't like Lowe's on a Saturday night. [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: Um, so you based it on Anna. Were there any other sort of tics, or people, or, you know, Meryl Streep based, um, Miranda Priestly on Mike Nichols. So it doesn't have to be- Candice Bergen: Really? Chloe Malle: Yeah. I thought you'd like that. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Huh. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: Huh. Uh, no. Was ... it was ... It was just Anna and the Vogue- the fashion world that I had sort of brushed up against. Chloe Malle: Okay. Candice Bergen: Sometimes Polly Mellen would come- Chloe Malle: Did you know her? Candice Bergen: Polly Mellen? Chloe Malle: Yeah. Candice Bergen: Well, I worked with her a few times. Chloe Malle: Okay. Yeah, do you remember your first Vogue shoot? Candice Bergen: Yeah. Chloe Malle: You wanna tell us about it? Candice Bergen: I think Polly Mellen was the fashion coordinator on that shoot. Chloe Malle: Okay. Candice Bergen: And sh- And she was very no-nonsense, and, um, very organized. And, um, and it was with Avedon. Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Sarah Jessica Parker: Wow. Wow. Wow. Chioma Nnadi: Sarah Jessica, do you remember your first shoot with Vogue? Had you shot with Vogue when you recorded that episode? Sarah Jessica Parker: Yes, I do remember my first shoot, because it was an ... you know, one of those snow storms that makes headlines, I think for lack of preparation, not the ones that make headlines before they don't happen. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: It was terrible weather, but beautiful. And the streets were piled with snow. And the studio ... And it was Steven Meisel, and the studio was down in ... I'm gonna say like Jones Street. It was between LaFayette and Broadway, I think. I ... So I walked there, because there were no cabs. I couldn't get a cab or anything. And I got there. Chioma Nnadi: Whoa. [laughs] You walked there? Sarah Jessica Parker: And it was, Grace Coddington was the settings editor for that shoot, I think, with- Chioma Nnadi: I remember Grace. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... Meisel. And I walked up all of these steps. And I got there, and it was Garren doing hair. It was a tiny studio, but at the studio, shooting in front of me and before me was Linda Evangelista and some other highly notable, most important faces of our time at that time, and still. And they brought me into a teeny, you know, very dimly lit kind of area, where they were throwing clothes at people, and the clothes that Grace Coddington threw at me was the teeniest, tiniest- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: ... white bikini I have- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: ... ever seen in my life. A white bikini in- [inaudible 00:09:13] Chioma Nnadi: That's- [inaudible 00:09:14] Sarah Jessica Parker: And instead, with- Chioma Nnadi: Just to start? Sarah Jessica Parker: ... with no preparation, i- i- I had no idea I was wearing a bikini. And I don't wear bikinis, never have, and never will- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: [inaudible 00:09:25] start now. And what was I gonna say? Candice Bergen: No. Sarah Jessica Parker: [inaudible 00:09:30], of course, "Yes." Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: You know? Right away. And they, they put it on me, and made some adjustments, and, um, got me in this quite small studio. And it looked almost like somebody's storage unit. And I don't mean that in a bad way, it was just interesting. And Garren was like, "Let's just wet her hair." Chioma Nnadi: Huh. [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: My hair was just kinda wet. And Linda Evangelista, i- very kindly offered to stay and help, which I thought was very sweet, even at the time. But I was like, "Please don't watch me do this. Please don't like watch me attempt to try to do what you do." Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: And I- [inaudible 00:10:06] Chioma Nnadi: No, I'd hate for her to be the person- Sarah Jessica Parker: ... it feels- [inaudible 00:10:09] Chioma Nnadi: ... watching. [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: She was trying to make m- like I ... You can't just adopt her into your bloodstream in front of Steven Meisel. Like I would need years, um, or at least a day. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Anyway, that was my first shoot. And they did use the picture. And I'm laughing, and it's, you know, it's not ... I wouldn't say like it's a great picture of me, but it certainly holds a lotta memories. And I, I ... it- Chioma Nnadi: Hm. Sarah Jessica Parker: And I was thrilled. And I wrote thank you notes to ever single person- Candice Bergen: You're kidding. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... at that shoot. Candice Bergen: Huh. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah, because it was such a big deal. You know? It was such a big deal. Candice Bergen: Uh. Chloe Malle: Can, did you write thank you notes? Candice Bergen: Never. [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: I'm ashamed, sort of. Sarah Jessica Parker: No, no, no. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: It was probably 'cause I thought, "This will never happen again. So I want some kind of documentation." Like- Chioma Nnadi: Well, it happened a bunch more times, so you were wrong. [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: [laughs] Chloe Malle: A lotta thank you notes. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: I keep writing them. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: You ... You're still writing them. Sarah Jessica Parker: Uh, I wrote two, uh, Friday. Candice Bergen: Wow. Sarah Jessica Parker: Because in my head, I'm thinking, "If my children see me, they might a- say, 'What is that envelope?' I will say, 'It's a thank you note.'" Right? Like that will become part of their life. That's my hope. Chloe Malle: Well, you were like that when I was little. I had little personalized stationery from when I was like five years- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... old and I had to like write thank you notes to all of my little friends who came to the birthday party. [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: It's- Chioma Nnadi: That's so sweet. Chloe Malle: So Polly Mellen wasn't getting them, but- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... Daniel in the fourth grade was. [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Was it from Mrs. Something-Something on the Upper East? Remember the great stationery store- Candice Bergen: Yes. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... mis- Candice Bergen: It was. [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: John Strong? Was it Mrs- Candice Bergen: Yes. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... John Strong? Candice Bergen: And, and they were a fortune, uh. [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Yes. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] So- Sarah Jessica Parker: Yes. Think like the Belgian loafer of stationers. Candice Bergen: [laughs] I've got Belgian loafers on. Chioma Nnadi: No. Candice Bergen: Ah. [laughs] Chloe Malle: Never without her Belgians. [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: [inaudible 00:12:01]. Chloe Malle: Do you remember shooting the Vogue scene? Was that the first time you'd been in the Vogue closet? Sarah Jessica Parker: I think ... Was that the first time I was in the Vogue closet? I'm gonna say it might have been. And you know, Ronnie Rifkin, the great Ronnie Rifkin was in that episode. And he's so great in it. Chloe Malle: He's so good. And it's ... Uh, he plays your first editor before you move over to Enid, because he drops his pants and reveals his- Sarah Jessica Parker: [inaudible 00:12:28]- Chloe Malle: ... very impressive Versace briefs. And in- Sarah Jessica Parker: Uh- Chloe Malle: ... a way, it was very, um, it was, uh, sort of one of the first pre-two- Sarah Jessica Parker: [laughs] Yes. Chloe Malle: ... TV episodes. [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. I just don't remember. But I remember even if it had been, being like in a estate, and thinking, "Wow, I'm doing this for so many people. Like, I'm here as the eyes for millions of other people across the globe, who would want to serious s- be standing here." And in, you know, in those days, the, the closet's so big now, it's so brightly lit, and there's so much natural light in, in, in the space. But th- That Vogue closet is not impressive in size. It's just impressive in what's on the shelves. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: Right. Sarah Jessica Parker: And there's no exteri- There's no real light. It's all lit from above- Candice Bergen: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... with a- [inaudible 00:13:15] Chloe Malle: It was a real closet. Candice Bergen: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yes. Yes. There might have been a Xerox machine, you know, place, whatever, you know? But maybe that made it even more special. Chloe Malle: Have you ever had an intimidating boss or mentor like Enid is to Carrie? Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. And I've worked with people who are intimidating. But I kinda like it. I kind of like being scared of, or intimidated by somebody. 'Cause it typically means that I admire them, that I want to know something more about them. I'm not intimidated by people I don't respect, or people who are bullies, or behave poorly. I don't care about it anymore. Do you guys feel the similar way or no? Chloe Malle: Yeah, I- Sarah Jessica Parker: You feel? Chloe Malle: I think I'm impressed by people who are, who are sort of strong, bullish, not bullies. Sarah Jessica Parker: Uh-huh. Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, I agree. Sarah Jessica Parker: Uh-huh. Chioma Nnadi: I agree. Chloe Malle: Can, have you ever had someone who intimidated you? Candice Bergen: Are you kidding? Chloe Malle: Well. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: Yes. I, I can't remember them- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] but ... But, sure. Polly Mellen, for example. Chloe Malle: There we go. Chioma Nnadi: You found ... You found her intimidating? I mean, so, so what's the ... Was Enid based on ... Sarah Jessica, do you know what Enid was based on Anna, or do we know? Sarah Jessica Parker: You know, like Chloe says, we reference Anna. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Sarah Jessica Parker: So it, it feels separate. But I think that kind of idea of, you know, a headliner kind of editor, somebody- Chioma Nnadi: Right. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... who's ... who's on the tips of people's tongues, who, people know the name, whether you're in their business or not. Like that kind of world impression and the influence they wield. Like I, I think maybe there was some of Grace in it, Grace Coddington- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... not- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... temperamentally, necessarily, or the way she spoke, or the way she dressed, but the idea that there is somebody who is familiar in the world. And keep in mind this was before social media, so if someone- [inaudible 00:15:16] Chioma Nnadi: Right. Sarah Jessica Parker: Someone's kind of, um, injecting themselves into, i- into people's lives and vernacular. And they're not doing it by virtue of a telephone. They're doing it by virtue of the way they are working and the images they're creating. So I feel like Enid was like that, and maybe a little mix of the great editor, forgive me, who passed at Harper's who brought, um, Harper's back. Um- Chloe Malle: Kay Betts. Sarah Jessica Parker: Um, no. Um, prior, you know, the, uh, i- the British, m- um- Candice Bergen: I'm- Chloe Malle: Uh, oh. I know. Liz, um, Liz- Chioma Nnadi: Liz- Chloe Malle: ... Tilberis. Chioma Nnadi: ... Tilberis. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yes. Like, you know, that kind of person who's like in the world and on the streets, but also, you know- Chloe Malle: The iconicity. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yes. Yes. Thank you. Chioma Nnadi: I mean, we all want to know, uh, how that iconic scene in the, in the closet came about. I mean, were you ... Did you truly freak out about the Manolos? Was that planned? How did that, the Mary Janes? Love a Mary Jane, a- too. Um- Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Have a- Sarah Jessica Parker: I'm sure- [inaudible 00:16:13] Chioma Nnadi: ... silver pair of Manolo Mary Janes. So I freak out about mine regularly, but how did that scene con- come together? Sarah Jessica Parker: We definitely talked about what that shoe was gonna be. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Sarah Jessica Parker: And I had my original ones that had been loaned to me- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Chioma Nnadi: Oh. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... from Manolo and from George previous to that. Chioma Nnadi: Right. Sarah Jessica Parker: So we talked a lot about what was the shoe that was gonna be the thing that Carrie just felt like, you know, she might need to go to a hospital? Like what would be- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: ... the shoe? And, uh- Chioma Nnadi: The heart attack shoe. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: The heart attack shoe. [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. And, um, I'm sure Michael talked to me and Pat about it, like, 'cause he would even say himself, he would not have known what shoe to cite as the, as the one. Chioma Nnadi: Hm. Sarah Jessica Parker: And I did, like I think they loaned me a pair for something. And then they were like, "No, keep it. It's a sample. You know, keep it." And mine were so beat up. But I loved them. Chloe Malle: [laughs] It was a sincere- Sarah Jessica Parker: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: ... religious experience. [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Uh, and then, I, I now call Candice Toto, 'cause that's what my three year old calls her. [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: Aw, that is the- Sarah Jessica Parker: Oh. Chioma Nnadi: ... sweetest. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: Oh my goodness. Sarah Jessica Parker: How is Candice or Grandma called Toto? What is Toto? Is that, um- Chloe Malle: He just randomly started calling her Toto. She started with GranCan, and then she decided she didn't like GranCan. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: Oh, Gran- I love GranCan. Chloe Malle: Yeah, she decided it was too- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: I don't know. Chioma Nnadi: GranCan, it's funny, it's good. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: So now she's Toto. But now I call her Toto. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: Um, but Toto- Sarah Jessica Parker: [inaudible 00:17:39]- Chloe Malle: ... you didn't do another Sex and the City episode until season six, which is one of the most, I think, iconic episodes of the whole series. Sarah Jessica Parker: It is such a good ... I don't remember any of the episodes, and I've never seen them, except sometimes I was forced to watch them for cutting reasons, you know, like edits or whatever. Candice Bergen: Because you were a- Chioma Nnadi: So you've never seen- Candice Bergen: ... producer- Chioma Nnadi: ... them? Candice Bergen: ... Sarah Jessica. Sarah Jessica Parker: Correct. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: And thank God. Sarah Jessica Parker: But- Candice Bergen: Because- Sarah Jessica Parker: ... you can- Candice Bergen: ... else knew fashion. Sarah Jessica Parker: Well, that's- [inaudible 00:18:05] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: ... of course, and Molly. Candice Bergen: W- Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: But, um- Candice Bergen: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: But you know, meh, I'm just kidding. Um- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: But that is an episode that I remember really, really well. And it's not that I've seen it again, it's just, it's ... You're talking about Splat, right? Chloe Malle: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: That's an amazing episode. Candice Bergen: Was Baryshnikov in that episode? Chloe Malle: Yes. Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Candice Bergen: Ah. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Well, what's interesting, I rewatched that also this weekend, and the premise involving Enid is that Enid sort of, uh, calls, uh, Carrie to Milo's and grovels, and says, "I, I'm hosting a sort of [French 00:18:41] party and I need a plus one. I need a date." Which, the idea of that seems absurd at this point, that this, iconic, uh, woman would need a date. And sh- You know, Enid says, "I need you to have your Alexandr Petrovsky bring me a date." And so, um, Baryshnikov comes with his, uh, friend, who's Wally- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... Shawn. Candice Bergen: I forgot. [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] And you, ou- You call Wally a Hobbit. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: Did you ever apologize to Wally- Sarah Jessica Parker: No. Chloe Malle: ... for that? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: And I always end up wor- working with Wally- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: ... and in some form, calling him a Hobbit. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: It's so great. Chloe Malle: Well- Sarah Jessica Parker: You guys were so great in that episode. Oh my gosh. Candice Bergen: Well, it was fun. Chloe Malle: Well, and you've known Wally for 100 years. Candice Bergen: Yeah. Chloe Malle: When did you first meet Wally? Candice Bergen: Well, with Poppy. Chloe Malle: Okay. Candice Bergen: Uh, when they did My Dinner with Andre. Chloe Malle: Poppy was what I called my father, uh, Louis Malle, who directed a film with Wally Shawn and Andre Gregory. So you and Wally, you and the Hobbit were chatting. And then, uh, Kristen Johnston plays the party girl who falls out the window. Candice Bergen: Yeah. Chloe Malle: And it's- Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. Chloe Malle: But there's also this subtext to the episode, Sarah Jessica, correct me if, if I'm misreading this, which is she's deciding whether to move to Paris with Alexandr Petrovsky and Enid is ... has this moment where she says, "It's, it's a desert out there for a woman of my age. And you can't ... " Candice Bergen: I remember that. Chloe Malle: " ... be swimming in my wading pool with Petrovsky." And- Candice Bergen: Hm. Chloe Malle: You wonder if Carrie's having this realization of, "I could stay in New York and become this sort of sad fashion spinster. Or, I can go to Paris, uh, and join this man." And I wonder if that storyline feels dated now or different. And especially because, I ... I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't ... isn't Carrie, in And Just Like That probably about the same age as Enid was then, early f- early 50s? And, and she's living her best life a bit. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. My guess is that those ideas would probably feel dated now, if, you know, um ... You're bringing up something that no one else has, so it's really interesting to consider. And also, I think there's another thing happening there, and I don't recall the lines, but I think Kristen Johnston's character says something like, "New York is dead." Chioma Nnadi: Hm. Sarah Jessica Parker: "It's not fun. It's over. Might as well just ... " I can't remember that famous line before she literally falls outta the window and dies. Um- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: She s- makes some proclamation about New York's potential, you know, its future. And between, I think Enid's shard thoughts and sentiments, and Carrie's own, also conflicted romantic life, you know, is she running from Big toward Petrovsky, freedom, liberty? But I think, you know, if we wanna look at those lines, yes. But even if they are dated, we, we could probably argue that there are many women in New York right now- Chioma Nnadi: Absolutely. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... who do. Candice Bergen: Mm-hmm. Sarah Jessica Parker: So saying it out loud maybe has to be more thoughtfully considered, but I think there are probably women in New York who are anywhere between 45 and 55, nevermind 65, 75, and up, who feel that it's a vast wasteland. You know? That it's just- Chioma Nnadi: Yes. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... a full- [inaudible 00:22:06] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: ... people. You know? And that the ways in which we have started meeting people have been, that's been hard and complicated, too. Like there's not ... There doesn't seem to be the avenue that exists for, you know, cultivating a rela- a romantic relationship, nevermind companionship with someone new. A- You know what I mean? Maybe then it ... Maybe it's the way that we use language, that makes it feel like, a little like, "Ooh." Chloe Malle: It didn't feel ooh, it just was like, "Huh. I don't know." Sarah Jessica Parker: If that- [inaudible 00:22:34] Chloe Malle: I don't know, a seated dinner, maybe. But like [French 00:22:37], it was like, "Okay." You know, she's just- Candice Bergen: What is- [French 00:22:37] Chloe Malle: It's when it's like a- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: Uh, it's like serve food or standing. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, it's such a French idea, isn't it? [French 00:22:46] I never hear it- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... outside of Paris. Chloe Malle: Think a buffet, or where you're not- Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... seated. Candice Bergen: Ah. Sarah Jessica Parker: Food on ... Food on tour. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: [inaudible 00:22:53] on tour- Chioma Nnadi: You're never satisfied at [French 00:22:55]. I avoid them- Sarah Jessica Parker: ... in the air. Chioma Nnadi: ... like the plague. Chloe Malle: [laughs] And Just Like That, the Run-Through will be back. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Feel like I haven't made quite enough And Just Like That jokes. [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: I know. Uh, it's ... Uh, you? I'm just shook- Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: ... at how restrained you've been. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: And ... And Just Like That joke. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: I mean, we have a, a whole- Chloe Malle: [inaudible 00:23:14]- Chioma Nnadi: ... season of that. You- Chloe Malle: Oh my God. Uh, Toto's gonna think this is a boring question, but- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: I don't care. [laughs] Um, I just, I think there's ... It's important that both of you play these very iconic, zeitgeist-defining characters with Carrie and Murphy Brown. Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: For the younger listeners, Murphy Brown was a- [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... a sitcom that ran on CBS for 10 years, starting in 1988. Candice won the Emmy five times. It was a big- Chioma Nnadi: Hm. Chloe Malle: ... deal. Um, and- Candice Bergen: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: She, Murphy Brown was a big deal for the culture, and as Carrie was. I wonder if there's any relationship between those two characters in how they sort of empowered women to live their own lives, and also if you, your relationship to those characters have s- has changed over the years? I mean, you have, in Just Like That, you did a Murphy revival a few years ago. Do you like Murphy less now, or more? Candice Bergen: Oh, I love Murphy. I, I love ... Murphy was a great character. And- Chloe Malle: Hm. Candice Bergen: Uh, and I loved playing her, and, and, and, uh, and Sarah Jessica, I remember watching when the show was especially hitting ... Well, it was always strong, but what a huge impact it had. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Well, it's different now with streaming. I mean, I remem- I was reading about Murphy was ag- up against, uh, Monday Night Football, because it was just assumed it would be only women. Candice Bergen: And we made a dent. Chloe Malle: Right. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: That's when you knew it was sort of- Candice Bergen: They were not happy. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Uh, they made a dent, but you know, Murphy Brown was really, like, it just took the world. It was like, took it to task, like everything. And, and people had such strong responses to like ... they were ... You know, people were so terrified of what she might say, how she said it. You know? What it meant and how it's going to ... You know, i- it's really incredible. And, and for those who w- will listen to this, and haven't seen Murphy Brown, watch Candice Bergen. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: Watch Candice Bergen be political, and say what's on her mind, not be afraid, not apologize for it, be an authority. Uh, I mean, a million ways in which, you know, touching on things that just s- had yet to be, have been said, done, illustrated. It was, i- it was huge. It was the cover of The New York Times. The cover of The New York Times was- Candice Bergen: Oh, what a- [inaudible 00:25:44] Sarah Jessica Parker: ... commenting- Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: ... on what she said that upset elected officials in this country. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Yes. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: It really bothered them. It got really, you know, under their skin. It's incredible. Chloe Malle: Well, and, just to ... For people who don't know, about 30 years ago, Dan Quayle used Murphy Brown as an example of the decline of American me- values, family values, because she made the choice to have a child as a single mother. And it became a huge political lightning rod. And what, wha- What was that like, Toto? [laughs] Candice Bergen: Oh, I, I, I just, uh, burrowed in. I, I didn't go out. I didn't comment. I didn't say anything, 'cause it was for a ... For a couple of weeks it was on the cover of every magazine or- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Candice Bergen: ... paper, it was just everywhere. And I, I, I was just, uh, totally cowed by it. Chloe Malle: Sarah Jessica, was there a moment for Sex and the City, where it really entered the culture wars in a similar way? Candice Bergen: It was always in the culture wars. Chloe Malle: Well, though, but were people pissed about anything? I can't remember. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah, I think they were angry about things all the time. Candice Bergen: Right. Sarah Jessica Parker: But [inaudible 00:26:52] I guess like Candice, I just chose to not listen or even be that aware of like whatever peripheral chatter, because it just couldn't ... It, it wasn't gonna change what we were doing. And I remember one time, a gentleman stopped me. There was a great restaurant. It was called Aggie's, and it was on Houston and MacDougal. Chloe Malle: Okay. Sarah Jessica Parker: And [inaudible 00:27:11] ever, and it was an amazing coffee shop, um, just at the northern end of Soho. And this gentleman came up to me and started telling me how much he didn't like the show. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, God. Sarah Jessica Parker: I said to him, "Have you seen the show?" Just something about it, I was like, "Have you seen the show?" And he was like, "No, absolutely not." And I was like, "What are you talking about?" Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Because people had reactions to the show based on a theoretical idea that it was a bunch of, you know, wild, untamed women running around New York City having sex. Like it was ... You know. And it was so objection, so, so beneath them, you know. Meanwhile, anything that men did with guns and, you know, whatever on television [laughs] was perfectly fine and acceptable, but they were wrong about what the show was about, first of all. But you know, so I think people were mad a lot. But you have to kind of think, "Well, people are mad, or they object, or they're mis- They're misunderstanding what we're doing." But there's a host of people that are enjoying, or connecting to it, or feeling affection, or seeing themselves, or maybe seeing a friendship that they'd like to have, or a way they'd like to conduct a friendship, or maybe even the way they'd like to be seen as a sexual person, or, uh, any of it." So you sort of just are like, "Eh." Candice Bergen: I remember, the last episode of Sex and the City, I was walking down Madison Avenue, I ... 'cause I'd seen it- Chloe Malle: No- Candice Bergen: ... before. Chloe Malle: No, no. You hadn't seen it. Uh, let me- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... fact check the story. [laughs] Candice Bergen: Oh, God. [laughs] Chloe Malle: We were all watching it together. Me, I was a senior in high school, my friends were over, we were watching it with my mom. My poor stepfather, who's the loveliest man, and just did not need to watch Sex and the City with his- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... teenage stepdaughter- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: He took the dog out. And so he took Jerry, the Goldendoodle, walking up Madison Avenue, and they walk past Vico, which was our Sunday night dinner. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: And the owner of Vico's, this older Italian man, he goes, "What is wrong with Americans? It's like the Superbowl. No one is out tonight." Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: It's- Candice Bergen: Nobody. Chloe Malle: ... like the whole- Candice Bergen: ... had any business. [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... the whole city was inside- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: ... watching the finale. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Oh, I love that story. Chloe Malle: Which isn't a thing anymore. Chioma Nnadi: No. No. People- Candice Bergen: No. Chioma Nnadi: ... watch things so differently. Sarah Jessica Parker: Oh, that's such a nice story. Chloe Malle: It was nice for Jerry. He got a long walk. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] And what was it like- Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. Chioma Nnadi: ... thinking about, you know, doing And Just Like That after you ... after what, you know, the way people watch TV is different, the way, you know, your character's different, entering the- Chloe Malle: Well, and the internet, the- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... social media- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... and reactions to everything. Chioma Nnadi: Exactly. Chloe Malle: That didn't exist. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot about it that I wish were different. I wish you could film on the streets, and- Chioma Nnadi: Hm. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... somebody wouldn't immediately share that with everybody else, 'cause it's an important scene or a story point. You know, I wish that there was some propriety about access, and how to naturally choose to embargo something like that as somebody on the street. You know, uh, I, I, I miss the standing date for television. I loved it. I looked so much forward to the shows that you would have to wait 'til Wednesday night, or Friday, or Sunday, or whatever it was. I love waiting for something. It's like not reading the last page of a book first. You know? It's like- Chioma Nnadi: Hm. Sarah Jessica Parker: You earn it, you, you wait for it, you talk about it with people the next day. So I miss that. And I, I, I know, social media, you know, it's a complicated relationship for anybody in, in the arts or entertainment who are available, meaning like it's just different to try to create something and offer it when it's already been disseminated. It's a s- strange way of producing something. Chloe Malle: Uh, Sarah Jessica, this weekend I also watched the documentary about And Just Like That. And I was aghast at your archive. Sarah Jessica Parker: [laughs] Chloe Malle: You have kept- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... I mean, Andrew Bolton would blanch- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... at- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... the way this is organized. I mean, Can, she has every outfit from every episode of Sex and the City cataloged and boxed beautifully. Wh- Where's your Murphy archive? Candice Bergen: Uh ... Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] Nothing is kept. It's devastating. Candice Bergen: You know, I remember when Murphy wrapped, pe- There was like lemmings going to the women's wardrobe room. And, and everyone taking jackets, and s- skirts, and scarves. And I said, "Well, wait. I wanted that jacket." It was ... I mean, the ... it was just- Chloe Malle: I have one silk Gucci scarf with cats all over it- Candice Bergen: Yeah. I- Chloe Malle: ... that you wore- Candice Bergen: ... remember that. Chloe Malle: ... on Murphy. Candice Bergen: Aw. Chloe Malle: I wear that a lot. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: And one like Mark Cross briefcase that Murphy carried. But- Candice Bergen: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... other than that ... Candice Bergen: Yeah, that's it. Chloe Malle: Sarah Jessica, do you think you'll ever do like a Carrie exhibition? Sarah Jessica Parker: I mean, I read about people's, like their contracts, and all the things that they ask for, and that they have to have in a room, or a space, or a car, or a smell, or a food. And I never had any of that. But for some reason, early on in my career, my attorney, who I'm still with, so that's like 35 years, he was like, "You should always ask for your clothes." Chioma Nnadi: Smart. Sarah Jessica Parker: And I just- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, so smart. Sarah Jessica Parker: I just did. And we've had a couple people ask about 'em, and, you know, it'll be like a university will ask or something like that. But I'm trying to understand what value they actually have, or I don't mean value, I just mean like- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: ... they're ... 'Cause, you know, i- i- It's only a burden for my kids. It's not like they want it. You know, it's not- Chloe Malle: Do your twins ever wanna borrow things? Sarah Jessica Parker: The sad thing is their feet are bigger than mine, now. Chloe Malle: Oh. [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: [inaudible 00:32:27]. 'Cause I really, in my head, I really did imagine that they would have all of my shoes. And, and, and they borrow stuff, but their bodies are different. They're taller, they're like, you know, I'm like- Chloe Malle: How old are they? Are they still growing? Sarah Jessica Parker: They'll be 14 at the end of this month. Chloe Malle: Oh. Chioma Nnadi: Oh, right, so they're still- Sarah Jessica Parker: I don't know that they're still growing. We'll see. Chloe Malle: You, uh, were very involved in the early wardrobe. And I was listening to an interview you were doing. And you said that you and Pat Field were just thrifting by necessity at the beginning, which I just think is remarkable to think about. What was the f- the floodgate opening? Was it the Fendi Baguette, was it bringing Manolos in? Sarah Jessica Parker: It was the Baguette. Manolo was a little bit after f- um, uh, i- I'm pretty sure. I think this is like documented, but I'm pretty sure it was the Baguette. Chloe Malle: Okay. Sarah Jessica Parker: And, um, we, you know, both of us, Pat, and Molly, and I all knew George, um, Malcolm is from Manolo. So that was the easier relationship to kind of fig- you know, cultivate, and, and exploit. But, um, uh, and that did come, I think, afterwards. But it was Fendi, and I don't know why Fendi. Maybe they had nothing to lose. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: I, I don't know. But they were the first pri- people that really, you know, in the luxury world, said the other day, they, they were like our street cred. They were like the bonafides- [inaudible 00:33:45] Chloe Malle: Wow. Sarah Jessica Parker: You know, it was a very different story. And it w- It wasn't like all of a sudden, you know, the floodgates opened, but it was certainly much easier a conversation to even have with anybody. "Can we borrow?" You know, people didn't like laugh and hang up. Chloe Malle: You did the same thing with Murphy, right? You sort of took over wardrobe a bit? You got involved. Candice Bergen: Yeah. I, I, I went to designers and just- Chloe Malle: Who'd you go to? Candice Bergen: I went to Donna Karan, I went to Isaac Mizrahi, who had a line at that time. And, um, and they- Chloe Malle: And Ralph. Candice Bergen: And Ralph. Chloe Malle: So all people you knew. Candice Bergen: Yeah, all people I knew, who gave me discounts. Chloe Malle: And you actually ... And I like that you, uh, you always wore your own shoes because you didn't want Murphy to wear inexpensive shoes. Candice Bergen: That's right. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: Well, and I read something this weekend that really stopped me in my tracks, which is that, um, you'd go next door to men's wardrobe for Murphy's off duty look- Candice Bergen: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... and borrow things. But apparently you borrowed a baseball cap, but you wanted to have your ponytail out of it. So the woman who did wardrobe cut a hole in it. Candice Bergen: And we started that trend. Chioma Nnadi: No way. Sarah Jessica Parker: Oh. Chloe Malle: Is that? That's not possible. [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: So there were- Candice Bergen: I know. Chioma Nnadi: ... holes in the back of- Candice Bergen: It doesn't seem possible. But they- Chloe Malle: We need a- Candice Bergen: But that's what they did. Chloe Malle: ... fact check on that. Candice Bergen: Baseball caps didn't have holes in the back. Chioma Nnadi: Wow. I hope ... hope there's some residuals for that invention. Candice Bergen: I don't- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Candice Bergen: ... think there are. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Copyright. Chloe Malle: Do you remember being involved in what Enid was wearing? Candice Bergen: No. Sarah Jessica Parker: Did you feel comfortable when you came back this time round, um, on this, on And Just Like That, like Molly and everybody, you felt like you- Candice Bergen: I loved Molly. Sarah Jessica Parker: But isn't she great? Candice Bergen: Yeah. Yeah. Loved her. Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. Candice Bergen: Um, I ... Yeah, I felt, I felt comfortable with everybody. It was a lovely set to be on. Sarah Jessica Parker: Wasn't it? Candice Bergen: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: I know. I loved, uh, I loved our days together. Um, and when all those other ladies showed up, and we just sat in that room with Gloria Stei- I mean, like that was a ... That was an amazing day. Candice Bergen: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Yeah, Gloria Steinem is in the episode. And you've known her for 100 years. Candice Bergen: Yeah. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: Literally. [laughs] Chloe Malle: How did you feel about bringing Enid back? Candice Bergen: Oh. Well, first of all, I loved Enid's name. Enid Frick. I- Chloe Malle: Frick. Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Candice Bergen: ... thought it was a stroke of genius, to- Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: ... have an editor named Enid Frick. And, um, and, and it was ... I was thrilled to come back as Enid. It was, it was ... There was no, like, "Uh." It was really fun. She was- Sarah Jessica Parker: Michael wanted ... Michael wanted her back so much. And- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: You never know, people might just say, like, "I don't wanna. It, it ... Huh." You know, a lotta people don't wanna work after working for a lotta years. But then you- Chioma Nnadi: Hm. Sarah Jessica Parker: You were talking about all the stories of Rome- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: "[inaudible 00:36:36] Rome, and shoot a movie in Rome." And- Chloe Malle: She had a- Sarah Jessica Parker: ... all- Chloe Malle: ... great time. For people who- Sarah Jessica Parker: [inaudible 00:36:40]- Chloe Malle: ... don't know, uh, Candice filmed Book Club Two in Rome last summer, and moved to the Hotel de Russie for two months. She was like- Chioma Nnadi: Wow. Chloe Malle: ... Eloise of the Russie. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: And she had- Candice Bergen: Oh, it was great. Chloe Malle: ... cacio e pepe in Aperol spritzes every night. And- Candice Bergen: Yep. Chloe Malle: ... it really was- Candice Bergen: Weight gaining. Chloe Malle: Okay. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: I was gonna say. [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: A ... A high point. But sure, that too. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs] I have to say my favorite parts of And Just Like That, I was watching that also, again, this weekend, it's just how m- what a nice spin it is on getting older, and talking- Candice Bergen: Hm. Chloe Malle: ... about that, and Carrie's hip replacement is so- Sarah Jessica Parker: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... well handled, and so funny. Candice Bergen: Yeah. Chloe Malle: And I was the Miranda and- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... Charlotte for Candice's double hip replacement. Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: So, [laughs] I- Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: ... know about that. [laughs] Um- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: But I was curious what both of you would say about what the hardest thing about getting older is? Candice Bergen: I, I find it's hard to walk. My ... Both my hips are, are now fake, and I walk like this kind of old thing, and, um, and I don't have the energy that I used to. And physical stuff happens, and I find myself seeing doctors more than I used to. And ... But other than that, you know, I'm grateful. Sarah Jessica Parker: I'm trying to think, too, of like I, I think, you know, the idea that I have to wear glasses is, uh, is, is bothersome to me, because I'm grateful, but I read all the time. And I, I don't like that I have to reach for something in order to have that pleasurable experience, even if it's just a text exchange with somebody. Chioma Nnadi: Hm. Sarah Jessica Parker: But I also just think like what you're asking of your body, just like what Candice said, if you ask of your body for a lot of years, I feel like I've always relied on my body to just do what I asked of it, running, standing in heels all day, running in heels, being on pointe shoes, running for a cab, you know, dashing through a subway, just being on the streets felt really easy. And, and so you, you feel stuff, like, you're like, "Oh my God. Why is that, like why am I doing ... " You know? Chloe Malle: Yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: It's just like that kind of stuff, that I also think it's like, "Yeah, you've lived a life and it adds up." And some of the stuff that adds up is really helpful, like courage, or authority, or being brave about something, or just speaking candidly. You know, a lot of ga- just wisdom. Maybe I'm a better parent now than I was five years ago. Who knows? Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm. Sarah Jessica Parker: But, and there's these other things, you're like, "Well, that adds up, too. So what are you gonna do?" Chloe Malle: What's the best parenting advice you've ever given or gotten? Sarah Jessica Parker: I don't give parenting- Chloe Malle: Well, sorry. I'm looking for parent advice, so I said given, but I mean gotten. [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: I'm trying to think. I mean, I mostly listen to my mom, just 'cause I'm one of eight kids, and I think, uh, it's not one thing. I think it's just the things that I, I knew at the time she was trying to do, but I was often, you know, resisted. But more so now, I have the same expectations for my own kids. I want the same things for them. "Don't leave the house without a book to read." You know, "Be polite, golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." You know? "Try to load- Try to learn how to freaking load the dishwasher by the time you're 13." You know? Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: "Help out." Um, you know? It's like- [inaudible 00:40:00] Chioma Nnadi: Practical things will get you far. [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah, like, "Learn how to sew on a button." You know, "Know how to do your whites separately than your colors." I don't know. You ... What do you guys? What's been your- Candice Bergen: Well, Chloe has gotten very little practical mothering advice from me, because- Chloe Malle: That's not true. Candice Bergen: No, I remember being in Hawaii, the two of us, and, um, and I ... And you were off playing, and I thought, "Look, they have washers and dryers here." Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: "I'll do a load of laundry." Which, I'd never done. And- Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] So, I threw stuff into the dryer, thinking it was the washer. Chloe Malle: She filled the dryer with soap- [inaudible 00:40:40] Candice Bergen: No. [laughs] And- Chloe Malle: Detergent was everywhere. Candice Bergen: [laughs] And it was just m- the clothes were just covered with powder. And, um- Chloe Malle: Fortunately, I had very practical British nannies. So- Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chloe Malle: They made up for that. [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: I ... There are a million ways that you could [inaudible 00:40:58] advice and counsel to your daughter, a million ways that you've lived that she's watched and seen. It's just indisputable. It's ... You two are playing a good game, here. But- Chloe Malle: [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Sarah Jessica Parker: And it's the reason that, you know, as Candice talked so much about that, you know, your children, and how much they wanna be with, you know, you guys wanna be together, and that's because of the parent. Chloe Malle: Absolutely. Sarah Jessica Parker: Right? Chloe Malle: No, absolutely. And also, I think that's the b- best advice I've ever gotten about parenting, is just, "Teach them what you want them to know and be the best example for them." And I- Candice Bergen: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: ... think with Toto, that's always been the case. [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: Um, and also- Sarah Jessica Parker: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... just now thinking I have a three year old and a one year old, and thinking about her starting Murphy Brown when I was- Candice Bergen: Yeah. Chloe Malle: ... my son's age, now. It's just insane, what, what that juggling was like. So yeah. Sarah Jessica Parker: It's amazing. Chloe Malle: Bravo, Toto. [laughs] Candice Bergen: [laughs] Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Chloe Malle: Well, Sarah Jessica, we know you have a packed day, and congratulations on the new series- Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, congratulations. Chloe Malle: We're so- Candice Bergen: I'm so- Chloe Malle: ... excited. Candice Bergen: ... happy- Chioma Nnadi: I can't wait. Candice Bergen: ... to see you, Sarah Jessica. Sarah Jessica Parker: Oh, I'm always so happy to see you, Candice, I'll keep texting. Chloe Malle: And Just Like That, that's it for this episode of the Run-Through. Chioma Nnadi: The Run-Through with Vogue is a production of Conde Nast Entertainment. Chloe Malle: The show is produced by Susie Lechtenberg, Chelsea Daniel, and Alex Jhamb Burns. It's engineered by Jake Lummus, Gabe Quiroga, and Kevin Bourassa, and mixed by Mike Kutchman. If you like the show, would you consider leaving us a review on iTunes? We love hearing from you, and your feedback really helps us. See you next week. Chioma Nnadi: Bye. [laughs] Chloe Malle: [laughs]