Chloe Malle: This is the Run Through with Vogue. I'm Chloe Malle. Chioma Nnandi: And I'm Chioma Nnandi. And we've got a shorty episode this week. We're joined by our colleague, Nicole Phelps, the Global Director of Vogue Runway. She's back again, actually second week, to discuss Couture Week. Chloe Malle: Good morning, Nicole. Welcome back. Two weeks in a row. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: We are so, so blessed [laughs]. Nicole Phelps: I'm the lucky one. Thank you for having me. Chloe Malle: It is an early morning, the last day of Couture. Nicole Phelps: Well, I've been watching remotely, and I think you miss a lot remotely when you look at Couture, because obviously, Couture is about hand work so often. And, uh, it pays to be, to be really up close. And that was, uh, interesting about the Jean Paul Gaultier show that Julien Dossena did, because w- the audience was very, very close to the model. Chloe Malle: Oh, really? Nicole Phelps: That's always my favorite fashion show. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: When you can feel the dress sort of like br- you know, breeze against- against your knees, 'cause it just feels so vital. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: Uh, and Sarah Mower, uh, remarked on that in the room. Chioma Nnandi: Wow. Nicole Phelps: It gave you a sense of, uh, what he was trying to do, I think, which was to, you know, prop up and- and champion Jean Paul Gaultier's, uh, way of looking at the street and, uh, really taking inspiration from real life. Chloe Malle: That was Julien Dossena's first show for Gaultier? Or- Nicole Phelps: He is, uh, the, a guest designer. Chloe Malle: Oh. Nicole Phelps: There's a program of guest designers at, uh, Jean Paul Gaultier Couture now. Chloe Malle: Oh, I didn't realize that. Okay. Nicole Phelps: And he is the fifth in, uh, in- in a long line. He- Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, Olivier did it. I mean, there's been a ton. Um, your favorite from Y- Y/Projects did it. Nicole Phelps: Glenn Martens. Chioma Nnandi: Yes. Chloe Malle: Oh, yeah. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: I didn't know who that was, and it was a great scandal. So- so- Chioma Nnandi: [inaudible 00:01:42]. Chloe Malle: Julien Dossena won't do it again next year? Nicole Phelps: No. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnandi: So who was first? It was, um- Nicole Phelps: Chitose Abe from Sacai. Chioma Nnandi: Chitose Abe, that's right. Chloe Malle: Okay. Nicole Phelps: And she had the disadvantage of it happening during, uh, the pandemic [inaudible 00:01:53]. Chloe Malle: Why did they do that? Nicole Phelps: Why did they move to this model? Chloe Malle: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: I think because Gaultier is sort of retired. Chloe Malle: Okay. Nicole Phelps: And, uh- Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnandi: This model, I think it's a really- Chloe Malle: It's cool. Chioma Nnandi: I feel like it feels really modern. Chloe Malle: I've just never heard of any other designer, no- no other house does that, right? Chioma Nnandi: Well, there's other designers that do guest- guest collections. Chloe Malle: That cycle someone new every season? Nicole Phelps: It's actually becoming, uh, a popular way to do things now. I mean, there's the Moncler, uh, um- Chloe Malle: Right. Nicole Phelps: ... project. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: And then, uh, even Lacoste I think is now doing a- a guest designer series. Chioma Nnandi: Right. Nicole Phelps: And also, Lanvin just announced something. Chloe Malle: Huh, okay. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, it does feel like it's trending in that direction. Chloe Malle: Interesting. All right. You heard it here first. Um, [laughs] so what were, Nicole, despite being on the side of the Atlantic, what were the highlights of Couture for you? Nicole Phelps: Well, I mean, there were, there were other big- big news stories other than Julien Dossena at Jean Paul Gaultier. We had Thom Browne's couture debut in American in Paris. Chioma Nnandi: Oh, yeah. Chloe Malle: So what is that about? Because I feel like Thom Browne's ready to wear shows are pretty couture a- already. Is this just like a- a marketing thing of like, let's make a bigger splash? Or is there an actual difference in the way the clothes are made? Nicole Phelps: I- I mean, the way that he- he framed it is that he wanted to do American sportswear, but elevate it, so that it's worthy of the Paris Couture stage. And again, if you look closely at those, uh, the suits, uh, there's so much intarsia work. You know, these pieces of different fabrics being placed together to create these tableau on- on the tailored jackets. And then the incredible, like, uh, sort of couture-y, cocoon-shaped coats that had the trompe-l'oeil suit built into it. Chloe Malle: Right. Nicole Phelps: Like a real trick of the eye. Chloe Malle: Okay. Nicole Phelps: It was, uh, y- you know, he is a masterful tailor and very, very precise. And, um, and I think the- the show was a good... But also a storyteller. And I think that's, he- he wanted to emphasize the storytelling and so he had, um, you know, Jordan Roth playing a, was Jordan a pigeon? Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnandi: He was, yeah. And then Alek Wek opened, kind of major. Nicole Phelps: Yes. Chloe Malle: We were lucky enough to have you join us last couture season, which was January, and we talked a little bit about sort of what couture is and the origin of couture. But for people who weren't here, the official title is Haute Couture, which is high dressmaking, which means that it's done all by these petites mains, by hand. Um, and to made to measure. Nicole Phelps: Right. There are many fewer, uh, Haute Couture ateliers than there are ready to wear ateliers in Paris. And, uh, the Federation in Paris has very strict rules, who is an official member of the couture schedule? Who are guest members of the couture schedule that may one day be official members? And it's a very rarefied world, and, uh, very important to the sort of patrimony of craftsmanship in- in France. Chioma Nnandi: Very few Americans have ever been invited into the, into that circle. Chloe Malle: Yeah, I guess Thom Browne, this is his, uh, big moment. Nicole Phelps: The other element of couture is that, uh, there's just one of them in the world usually. Chloe Malle: Right, right, right, right. Nicole Phelps: And that's what can command those, like, insane five and six-figure prices. It's a- a woman or a man now, because there's so much more couture for men on the, on the runways, uh, who wants to have- Chloe Malle: Yeah, is that new? Nicole Phelps: ... a singular garment that no one else has. Chioma Nnandi: They basically own the copyright. They can remake that look. Chloe Malle: Okay. Nicole Phelps: Right. And- and the- these labels have clients who go back again and again because they get used to that custom made fit. And so they have their- the actual bust of their, of their shape. There's a mannequin that's to- to their measurements- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. Nicole Phelps: ... in- in the atelier that, and that's where the clothes get made. They sort of get draped and, um, and- and put together on those forms so that when they come in for the fittings, and there could be one fitting, there could be three fittings, uh, the, you know, clothes are, you know, well on their way to being, um, you know, as precise and as tailored to your body as possible. Chioma Nnandi: Who would you say are the most famous American couture clients that you see are in and out? Nicole Phelps: Now? [laughs]. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Or just who's been- Nicole Phelps: I actually don't know. I mean, I guess Danielle Steel is a very famous couture client. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, Danielle Steel is the only one I can think of [laughs]. Chloe Malle: D- Deeda Blair. Nicole Phelps: Deeda Blair. Chioma Nnandi: Yes. Nicole Phelps: Uh- Chioma Nnandi: Do you think she's still... Chloe Malle: She is not. Chioma Nnandi: Not. But she was. Chloe Malle: Um, but she was. Nicole Phelps: Um, and famously, historic- historically Nan Kempner, uh, who was a- a devotee of Yves Saint Laurent, right? She is the famous story of trying to wear pants. What restaurant did she try to wear an Yves Saint Laurent pantsuit to and they said [foreign language 00:06:39]? No, not [foreign language 00:06:40], because it was in America. They said, "No, uh, you can't come in in- in pants." It was the '60s, I guess. And so she left the restaurant or went to the bathroom, took the pants off, and walked in in just the jacket. Chloe Malle: No. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs] So she- Nicole Phelps: That's like, I don't know if that's a- Chloe Malle: Oh- Nicole Phelps: ... true story. Chloe Malle: Interesting. Um, wait, but so I'm interested in couture for men. Has that always been a thing? Nicole Phelps: I mean, Savile Row is sort of an equivalent of- Chloe Malle: That's true. Nicole Phelps: ... the couture ateliers in Paris, uh, or any suit maker that is doing made to measure bespoke tailoring. Chloe Malle: Right. Nicole Phelps: Um, but definitely, uh, I would say in the last five or so years, you've seen more, uh, couture for men, um, on the, on the runway and, you know, there was a lot on, um, on Demna's Balenciaga runway. Chioma Nnandi: Saw a lot of guys that, I mean, like Lewis Hamilton was on the front row and- Chloe Malle: Oh, really? Chioma Nnandi: ... Offset and I'm sure, I feel like Lewis Hamilton probably buys couture. It feels like he's very into fashion. Chloe Malle: Interesting. Chioma Nnandi: Has the disposable income. Chloe Malle: So who was... What was the standout show for you, Nicole? Nicole Phelps: Well, I'm a big Demna fan and I- I thought the Balenciaga collection was, um, uh, it was very up my alley. I love, I love the tailoring and sort of the strictness of it, but also the inventiveness of it. As Sarah Mower put it in her review, he's, uh, a guy who was famous for, you know, giving us these big shoulders, and then these suits, there were no shoulders at all. It was this beautiful portrait neckline- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Nicole Phelps: ... sort of cut away. And it, uh, you know, shows- showing off the- the shoulders and the neck really, really fantastically. I loved that. Also, I mean, a very interesting now and then story of Balenciaga, the first model out was a model who actually- Chioma Nnandi: Loved that. Nicole Phelps: ... walked for Cristobal Balenciaga. Chloe Malle: No. Chioma Nnandi: She looked gorgeous. Chloe Malle: Oh. Nicole Phelps: And he retired in 1968. Chloe Malle: Oh my gosh. Chioma Nnandi: The chicest French woman that you'll ever... Chloe Malle: Oh, that's such a nice, uh, continuity story. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: And the dress was, uh, apparently, you know, it was a new version of a dress that she wore and- and she told Demna, uh, again, according to Sarah's review, that, um, it was the f- it was her favorite dress she ever wore by Cristobal Balenciaga. Chioma Nnandi: Wow. Chloe Malle: Wow. Chioma Nnandi: She looked amazing in it. And to me, it was like a real, like you said, a real connection from old to new and- Chloe Malle: What did the dress look like? Chioma Nnandi: It was, I think it was black velvet and it had this embedded, um, kind of rigid pearl necklace. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnandi: That sort of hung, you know, almost down to your mid a- like, to the beginning of your abdomen, and it w- it had... It was attached with these two, um, ribbons on each side, on each shoulder, and had a long sleeve and was just really fluid. It was beautiful. And she just looked so elegant. I thought, I was like, "Who is that woman?" You know when you're just... I didn't even think about the dress, and then you're like, "Oh, the dress is sort of perfect." Chloe Malle: Oh, amazing. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: And what was the Joan of Arc f- finale like? Chioma Nnandi: That- that look, [laughs] just seeing it, seeing it come down the runway, you know, in video was insane. It- it must've weighed a ton. Nicole Phelps: Yes. Eliza Douglas, the model, gets a medal for- for wearing that [laughs]- Chioma Nnandi: [laughs]. Nicole Phelps: ... and not falling. But I mean, it was armor, so maybe if she had fallen, it wouldn't, it, she wouldn't have [laughs] been hurt. Chloe Malle: [laughs] That's insane. Nicole Phelps: I love what Demna said about that, too. He said that if, uh, maybe if Joan of Arc had worn, had worn that, she wouldn't have been burned at the stake [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Oh my god. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: That is incredible [laughs]. Nicole Phelps: Because she was, uh, you know, she was, I mean, one of the reasons she was condemned, right, is because she wore men's clothes. Chioma Nnandi: Wow. I didn't realize that. Chloe Malle: Oh, interesting. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. This was a huge full- Chloe Malle: Her and Nan Kempner. It's all coming back to couture [laughs]. Nicole Phelps: [laughs]. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, it was kind of insane to see this big, full-skirted, I mean, and made out of metal, this full-skirted look made out of metal. Chloe Malle: Wow. Nicole Phelps: Right, and so that was done not- not just by the Balenciaga atelier, but he, um, the- the team there collaborated with- Chioma Nnandi: Oh. Nicole Phelps: ... uh, people who are doing the- this kind of metalwork for other kinds of companies. Um, I'm not even quite sure. Chloe Malle: Oh, really? I felt like there were a few people showing their collections, but that aren't couture. Like Patou is not couture. Is Alaia couture? Nicole Phelps: No, it's not. Chloe Malle: So they just jumped on the- the scheduling bandwagon? Is the... Nicole Phelps: I think it's, this is another, like, remnant of what we were talking about last week, um, uh, that you know, post-pandemic brands are experimenting with different kinds of sales models. Uh, for- for Patou to show off season, uh, you know, meaning not on the two main seasons, but on these two, you know, preseasons, it's, uh, it's a way to take advantage of buyers when they have bigger budgets. Chloe Malle: So they're sort of more, uh, piggybacking on the resort, end of resort rather than couture? Nicole Phelps: Right. And then Alaia, I think that's more, uh, you know, uh, there is a history of couture making at- at Alaia and it is, um- Chioma Nnandi: And didn't Alaia always kind of show in a, at the very end of Fashion Week- Nicole Phelps: Whenever he wanted to, yeah. Chioma Nnandi: ... whenever he wanted to? So I think that's just continuing the con- the tradition at- Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnandi: ... at that brand. Chloe Malle: I definitely feel like everyone is having their shows, uh, on the streets and bridges. I feel like the poor cobblestones of Paris- Chioma Nnandi: I know. Chloe Malle: ... are being like, desecrated. Chioma Nnandi: This time they were pink at Chanel. Chloe Malle: I know. Chioma Nnandi: They were painted p- pink. It looked very pretty. Nicole Phelps: Mm-hmm. Chloe Malle: Yeah. I hope that's removable paint. Chioma Nnandi: What did you think about the dog walking? Chloe Malle: I loved that dog. Chioma Nnandi: I knew, I knew you'd like that. Chloe Malle: Do you know that it was, uh, Virginie's, um, niece? Chioma Nnandi: Really? Chloe Malle: Yeah. It was, uh, her sister's dog. Chioma Nnandi: Ah. Chloe Malle: Her flat, her flat-coated, uh, retriever. Chioma Nnandi: Oh my god. Chloe Malle: I'm very into the dog. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: It's the thing I know most about from the couture show [laughs]. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, I was like Virginie's niece, hold on. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: It was her dog niece. Chioma Nnandi: Dog niece, okay. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnandi: That's a thing? [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Yeah, it's a thing. I'm sorry, I'd much rather a flat-coated retriever than the, uh, Kylie with her, you know, Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them at Schiaparelli last season. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: [laughs]. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, no, Schiaparelli was a totally different ballgame this time. Nicole Phelps: Beast? Chioma Nnandi: Different beast. It was in the, in the art world this time. Nicole Phelps: Right. Chloe Malle: But also, supposedly inspired by Inferno. It's supposed to be part two of the show. Chioma Nnandi: Right, right. Chloe Malle: Um- Chioma Nnandi: Didn't quite see the Inferno references. Chloe Malle: Okay. Chioma Nnandi: Definitely saw the artistic references. Chloe Malle: Right. Chioma Nnandi: Matisse- Nicole Phelps: The Yves Klein Blue, of course. Chioma Nnandi: Who else was there? Yves Klein Blue. Yeah. Nicole Phelps: Where the faces were painted- Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: ... that extraordinary shade of blue. Chloe Malle: Blue Man Group [laughs]. The Run Through will be back in just a moment. Chioma Nnandi: And we're back. What did you think of Chanel? Nicole Phelps: Chanel, I think, uh, you know, Virginie has done so much to- to modernize Chanel and make it, uh, sort of app- more approachable and more wantable, uh, by- by young people. Chioma Nnandi: Mm-hmm. Nicole Phelps: It has the s- uh, a sort of a young, um, sensibility, especially when you go into the store. Chioma Nnandi: Mm-hmm. Nicole Phelps: Maybe not so much on the runway. Sometimes on the runway, it doesn't look as young as I think it's intended to. But in the store, uh, I- I just imagine, you know, young women going in and it being, you know, these grail pieces, you know? Chloe Malle: Right. Nicole Phelps: Very, very expensive, but you know, so exquisitely, you know, made by hand and, you know, there's a through line, um, from the, from the exhibition at the Costume Institute right now to the, to the stores of Chanel where you just see this really fine, uh, beading and sequins and- and handwork. And I think I has a, more of a whimsy, I would say, than- Chioma Nnandi: Mm-hmm. Nicole Phelps: ... than it did when Karl Lagerfeld was designing. Chioma Nnandi: I like that it feels closer to us literally, because there's a, each time she has a really walkable shoe, I always want the shoe. I mean, you can't walk on cobblestones in anything b- anything that's gonna make you unsteady. I mean, I think some of the models at Alaia looked like they were a little bit unsteady. Chloe Malle: Oof. Chioma Nnandi: But not the case at Chanel. It was really- Chloe Malle: It was like Barbie when her foot goes flat. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, there was a very cool Mary Jane that was like, often capped in gold. It was a really cool shoe. And then I liked at Dior that all the, a lot of the models wore these G- Grecian flat sandals. I do like that there's this sense of like, coming to Earth. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Nicole Phelps: Well, that's the difference I guess you could argue between a woman designer and a man designer. Chloe Malle: Bold. Chioma Nnandi: Oh, b- yes. Chloe Malle: I love it. Chioma Nnandi: Yes. That is very true. Chloe Malle: I always feel that with Dior. Like, uh, it just feels like she's designing clothes that women want to be comfortable in. Like, all those dresses, I was like, "Ugh, if I were getting married again, that's what I would wear." Chioma Nnandi: Gave me kind of like, quiet luxury. Hate to use that, to bring that phrase into the room. Chloe Malle: Ugh. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: Do you think we could go a week without saying it? Chioma Nnandi: No. Chloe Malle: Were there any trends that were overarching across different shows? Chioma Nnandi: Couture denim, at Valentino, there was, um, some great embroidered denim jeans and then a, I feel like, um, Balenciaga's been- been pioneering that for a while with the jackets and the- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Chioma Nnandi: ... trench coat even I think one season. Chloe Malle: What makes couture denim? Like, how... Are they actually fitting jeans to a specific body? Chioma Nnandi: Sure. They must be. Nicole Phelps: Well, I, uh, looked at, um, Tiziana's Valentino review and she clarified that it's gazar, not denim. Chioma Nnandi: Oh, it's gazar. Nicole Phelps: So it's gazar- Chloe Malle: I don't really know what gazar is. Nicole Phelps: ... dyed... It's a kind of silk. Um, it's- Chloe Malle: Oh, wow. So they're not jeans? Nicole Phelps: They're not- Chioma Nnandi: No. Nicole Phelps: They're not true, uh, cotton denim necessarily. Chloe Malle: Okay. Nicole Phelps: But they're designed to look like jeans and to have that casual sensibility. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: The reason we all love, or so many people love wearing jeans is because we feel good in them, right, and comfortable. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: Right. Nicole Phelps: And the idea of making couture jeans... There's something so preposterous about it. Chloe Malle: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: Uh, and sort of, uh, ironic and- Chloe Malle: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: ... um, and I think that, I think that's one- one- another trend, you know, at sort of the couture jeans are an example of, uh, not- not designers actually rejecting couture, but trying to push at the boundaries of it, right, to expand the definitions. Chloe Malle: Right. Nicole Phelps: It's not just for, uh, like, galas. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Nicole Phelps: And it's not just for, uh, red carpet events and, you know, if you believe designers and brands, they say that they do have customers who are buying day wear to wear in their everyday lives. Chloe Malle: I mean, and it makes, also, it makes sense. Nicole Phelps: Yeah. Chioma Nnandi: [inaudible 00:17:18] you get more- more cost for, [laughs] better cost for wear. Nicole Phelps: Amortize your- your couture coat [laughs]. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. And speaking of red carpet, what do we think about the front row? I felt like Florence Pugh in her pink buzz cut and, you know, dressed in this very sheer dress was very on brand for her. Chloe Malle: I was very into Cardi B. and Diane Keaton next to each other at Thom Browne. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: That was delightful pairing. Chioma Nnandi: Cardi B. had to... I think she was the winner of couture this time. Chloe Malle: She took Paris by storm. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. She took Paris by storm. If Doja was the p- was the one that everybody was excited about, Cardi- Chloe Malle: Doja Cat last season. Chioma Nnandi: That- Chloe Malle: Cardi B. is the Doja Cat of July '23? Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, kind of. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Wait, I have another question about how much are couture jeans, do you think? It's like, $2,000? Nicole Phelps: No, no, no. Chioma Nnandi: Oh, no. No, no, no. Nicole Phelps: Add a zero, girl. Chioma Nnandi: I mean, when you think of... Yeah. I mean, I'm sure the Bottega suede jeans are probably- Nicole Phelps: 20-ish. Chioma Nnandi: ... 20-ish. Nicole Phelps: Yes. Chloe Malle: Wow. Chioma Nnandi: And that's not couture [laughs]. Chloe Malle: So I'm sorry, you think- Nicole Phelps: No, no, no, those suede jeans I think are seven-ish or whatever. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: But the- the woven leather ones from Bottega, which are not couture, they're ready to wear, I think those are probably close to- to 20. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: 20,000? Okay. Interesting. I'm just curious when you're like, "I'm gonna buy a pair of couture jeans," and it's like, okay, this is gonna put me out five figures. Nicole Phelps: A used car, yes. It's as much as a used car [laughs]. I think if we are gonna talk about price, the other thing to- to think about, and, 'cause it seems, it can seem really obscene, uh, to us, you know, working people, is that, you know, the people who are making couture are working people. The industry in France supports so many working people, and it's not just the- the celebrity designer who's taking the bow. There's, you know, dozens and scores and hundreds of people- Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, Valentino, there was so many of the whole atelier came out. Chloe Malle: Yeah, is that a new thing, to have the whole atelier come out at the end? 'Cause Pharrell did it, but I feel like everyone was like, "Ooh, Pharrell did it." Chioma Nnandi: I think, I think at Couture, it means something else, doesn't it? Chloe Malle: I see, okay. Chioma Nnandi: Because you've got... Maybe it was the design team at Louis Vuitton, but these are the- the petites mains, right? Chloe Malle: Right. Chioma Nnandi: They're the people making the clothes. Petites mains means little hands. Nicole Phelps: Sewing each sequin on by hand. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: The precision and sort of dedication is so mind-blowing to me, like, uh, but I guess it's c- would be quite meditative, you know? When you're, when you're doing it. Chioma Nnandi: Right. Nicole Phelps: And, um- Chioma Nnandi: I think it's for a certain personality type. Not for my, not for me. Nicole Phelps: No, I- I'm not precise enough to do that kind of work [laughs]. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Uh, any other themes that emerged or trends that we saw? Chioma Nnandi: Bridal. A lot of women are having a dress made for them that's fit to their body when they get married. I thought it was smart for Dior to do a collection like that. Or maybe... I don't know whether there, how many couture brides there are. There's always a couture bride at Chanel. That's a, that's a thing, right? Chloe Malle: Yeah, did that, did a bride end Chanel, as usual? Nicole Phelps: Yes, but it was very- Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: ... um, again, it was sort of young and- and sprightly. It wasn't grand. Chioma Nnandi: It was like a City Hall wedding. Nicole Phelps: Yeah. Chloe Malle: [laughs] Got it. I know, I feel like Virginie has really leaned into this sort of proverbial French girl style of this sort of young- Chioma Nnandi: Oh, yeah. Chloe Malle: ... tousled hair, tweedy jacket, um, that Vogue.com- Chioma Nnandi: And ch- it seems like it's her personal style, too. I think it seems very authentic to who she is and the way she dresses. Nicole Phelps: I would say, if there are any generalizations maybe, uh, about this, you know, this idea that couture, again, it's not just a fancy ballgown that couture 24 hours a day- Chioma Nnandi: Right. Nicole Phelps: ... and- and then an- another- Chloe Malle: 24 hour couture is fun. I like that [laughs]. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs] Yeah, it's definitely not occ- not just occasion. Chloe Malle: Well, I think the fact that like, everyone's showing, having shows on bridges, it's like, it's showing that people are sort of a- actually out in the world. Chioma Nnandi: In the world. Chloe Malle: It's not in this hushed atelier. Chioma Nnandi: Walking dogs, yeah. Chloe Malle: Yeah. To me, there's also an argument of like, how much of couture is ambience? 'Cause I feel like historically, couture was so much about being in an actual, not in the atelier, but in a- a closed space, hushed tones. And this now I feel like in the last few years has become more about where something is shown, so it's on a bridge, it's on the street that's painted pink with people walking dogs, you know, next to the Seine. It's at a chateau that's, you know, an hour and a half drive away. Nicole Phelps: Well, I think it's part of the- the fashion show as spectacle. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: But also this idea of the brands giving back a little bit to Paris and- Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Nicole Phelps: ... putting on a- a show not just for the guests, but for the people who might be able to see- see it, like, through a window or- Chloe Malle: Right. Nicole Phelps: Or you know, you're watching from the other side of the river. Uh- Chloe Malle: It's not as sort of siloed off into just- Nicole Phelps: Right. It makes it seem, even, an even bigger deal, I guess, when you see the hundreds or thousands of people massed sort of outside the gates, watching the show. And definitely when you're at Couture or you're in Paris just for the ready to wear, the crowds that are waiting for the celebrities to- Chloe Malle: Wow. It's insane. Nicole Phelps: ... to- to enter and exit the show venues are just totally over the top. It's like going to a Taylor Swift concert, pretty much. Chioma Nnandi: It is. It is. It- it's insane. Chloe Malle: Oh my god. Nicole Phelps: Every- every night of the week. Chioma Nnandi: More than any other city, I think, right, Paris has that. Nicole Phelps: Yes. Milan is a, is a close second, but New York has nothing- Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: ... nothing like that. Chloe Malle: Yeah, it's true. Chioma Nnandi: No. Nicole Phelps: Mm-mm. Chloe Malle: Interesting. But are they French fans? Nicole Phelps: I always feel like they, it's- it's young people and it- it feels like diverse crowds. Chloe Malle: Okay. Nicole Phelps: Um- Chioma Nnandi: You know when certain K-pop stars are at Fashion Week, then there's a different level of, you know- Nicole Phelps: Fandom. Chioma Nnandi: ... fandom outside the shows. But some shows I think people just count on there being a great roster of people there, but they also go because they're fans of the brand. Chloe Malle: Okay. Nicole Phelps: Yeah, I think there's online networks that sort of, you know, suggest who's coming and- Chioma Nnandi: Wow. Chloe Malle: Oh, really? Nicole Phelps: These- these- these- these- Chloe Malle: There's a whole Dark Web of [laughs]- Nicole Phelps: Sort of. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: It must be, other- Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. How would they know? Nicole Phelps: How- how else do they know? Chloe Malle: Right. Chioma Nnandi: Couture isn't quite over, is it, Nicole? Nicole Phelps: That's right. That's right. Dolce & Gabbana, uh, they do a, like a weekend-long, uh, event where their customers, uh, descend on a special part of Italy. Chioma Nnandi: And it's not called Couture. Yeah, in Italy, it's called, is it Alta Moda? Nicole Phelps: Alta Moda. High fashion. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Nicole Phelps: And, uh, this- this season, they, or this year, 'cause they do it, uh, a big one, um, once a year, it's in Puglia. Chloe Malle: Hmm. Nicole Phelps: The boot of Italy. Where apparently it's quite hot. Chloe Malle: Oh yeah, very hot. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, yeah [laughs]. Chloe Malle: And are you going? Nicole Phelps: I'm going. Chloe Malle: Right now? Today? Chioma Nnandi: What- what are you packing? What are you packing? Chloe Malle: What are you wearing? [laughs]. Nicole Phelps: I have some, uh, breezy- breezy dresses. Chloe Malle: Oh, so exciting. Can you bring back olive oil? Nicole Phelps: And flats. And flats, yes. Chioma Nnandi: [laughs]. Chloe Malle: I just saw on Vogue.com that Gabriela Hearst is leaving. Nicole Phelps: Yes, that- that's a long, uh, you know, a long rumored, uh, uh, story that, uh, Gabriela Hearst was leaving Chloe, that the brand made official today. And, uh, she has spent the- the last three years there, and really, like, turned Chloe's sustainability program up to 11 while she was there. I think Chloe, uh, obtained, what is it? B- corporate B status? Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Nicole Phelps: Which means, um, is that the, is that the phrase- Chioma Nnandi: B- B Corp status? Nicole Phelps: B Corp status. Chloe Malle: B Corp status. Yeah. Nicole Phelps: Which means that it- it, uh, the company sort of lives up to these quite rigorous standards, uh, of responsible, uh, sourcing and- and design. And, uh, so she really changed, she changed a lot quite- quite quickly at- at Chloe, I think. Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm. Do you think that was always her intention? Like, I'm gonna go in as like an eco warrior, s- shake this up, and then I'm not gonna... Because also, to be honest, like, it sounded insane that she was, she has young kids that she was traveling two months a, two weeks a month? Like it just did not seem like a sustainable setup, copacetic- Nicole Phelps: I think, I think designing t- two brands is hard for any designer, and to do it when, uh, you know, the brands are separated by the Atlantic Ocean makes it- Chloe Malle: Yeah, well- Nicole Phelps: ... doubly- doubly hard. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Nicole Phelps: And, um, you know, it goes back to what we were saying earlier about these guest designers, uh, fashion is in a moment right now where, uh, these positions feel- feel temporary. Peter Hawkings, who is the new designer at Tom Ford, you know, when he, when- when they announced his, that he was appointed to creative director, he's somebody- Chloe Malle: I didn't even know about him. Nicole Phelps: He's somebody who's worked, uh, alongside Tom for many years. Chloe Malle: Oh, okay. Nicole Phelps: He's, his- his official quote was, "I'm happy to write the next chapter." People, there's a way that people are looking at these appointments, or at least the framing that the PR teams are doing, they're sort of, uh, getting us used to this idea that, uh, um- Chioma Nnandi: Two to three years, not like a- Nicole Phelps: Yeah. Chloe Malle: That's so interesting. Chioma Nnandi: Like Alessandro's run, Alessandro Michele's run at Gucci, I don't think we're gonna see a- a- an eight-year run, right? It was a long, it was a long time. I think that's less- less- Nicole Phelps: I know Stuart Vevers at- at Coach is celebrating his 10-year anniversary at Coach this fall. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, that's wild, h- Nicole Phelps: Which is like, a record lately. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah, yeah. Nicole Phelps: Before that, I think it was only, like, Riccardo Tisci at Givenchy who had been anywhere that- that long. Although, uh, Nicolas Ghesquière is also coming up on 10 years at Louis Vuitton. Chioma Nnandi: Wow. Chloe Malle: Interesting. Oh, this is great. Chioma Nnandi: Yeah. Chloe Malle: All right, well, [foreign language 00:26:30]. Nicole Phelps: Thank you for having me. Chloe Malle: Thank you. That's it for this episode of the Run Through. Chioma Nnandi: The Run Through with Vogue is a production of Conde Nast Entertainment. Chloe Malle: The show is produced by Suzie Lechtenberg, Chelsea Daniel, and Alex Jhamb Burns. It's engineered by Jake Lummus, Gabe Quiroga, and Kevin Bourassa, and mixed by Bob Mallory. See you next week. Chioma Nnandi: Bye.